13-0 Discuss....

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by McSkillz, Jun 12, 2019.

  1. Runhard

    Runhard Member+

    Barcelona
    United States
    Jul 5, 2018
    Being happy you scored a goal in the World Cup is significantly different from showing up a team in the World Cup and stomping on their grave after you know they are dead. That is what celebrating when you are up 8 to nil in the second half is doing....you are stomping on the dead and defeated.

    If that is your deal, then fine, go ahead, but don't' be surprised when someone on that other team takes your knee out or goes in studs up to your shin. Its a part of the game and unwritten code so to speak, you show me up, get ready to feel the pain from your actions. If you don't know this goes on, you may not have much experience watching soccer.
     
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  2. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    They are lucky to have not draw retribution. I've already said it. I said that the Tancredi era CWNT would have broken a leg (possibly a slight hyperbole, possibly not).

    I'm not justifying it. Just stating a truth.
     
  3. Runhard

    Runhard Member+

    Barcelona
    United States
    Jul 5, 2018
    That says more than anything. In todays era of twitter, social media and trial by the masses, the majority of all responses I have seen have been negative towards the US Womens for how they celebrated when already killing Thailand. The players twitter account are full of people criticizing them, articles written about it, comment sections etc with most saying it was classless.

    This forum is the only place I have found with strong supporters for the notion you should do a ballet dance on the heads of your defeated and dead opposition. But so be it.

    They will win the World Cup and establish once again no other country in the world can compete with the money, development and support we have for the Women's program in the US. US exceptionalism is alive and well in Women's soccer.
     
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  4. orcrist

    orcrist Member+

    Jun 11, 2005
    Bay Area, California, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    More approval of violence!
     
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  5. Runhard

    Runhard Member+

    Barcelona
    United States
    Jul 5, 2018
    approval or disapproval is irrelevant from a fan. It's called, (the way it is) and why many are saying they are surprised it did not happen. Hats off to the Thai women for being classy.
     
  6. orcrist

    orcrist Member+

    Jun 11, 2005
    Bay Area, California, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ok, then where would do you stand on that if it happened?
    If a Thai player had broken Alex Morgan's leg with a deliberately violent tackle, would you have just said that was a proportional response?
    Or would you have said the more reasonable: "OMG, that was a horrible dirty play, and no celebration or score makes that ok!"

    Because, while people keep denying that they would justify violence, they turn around and say something like: "It would be natural for them to react that way" as if it's not also natural to react in celebration when you score a goal.
     
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  7. orcrist

    orcrist Member+

    Jun 11, 2005
    Bay Area, California, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not being violent = classy.
    What a low bar.

    Anyway, by your logic: The USWNT celebrating their goals as they smash World Cup records can be called: The way it is.
    Because it actually *is* the way it is. Not all these violent fantasies about what worse soccer teams "should" do to them. What those teams should do is learn to defend and score better. Even the Thai coach said that.
     
  8. orcrist

    orcrist Member+

    Jun 11, 2005
    Bay Area, California, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Those defending the dignity of the Thai team might be interested in what their actual coach said about this:
    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/11/...world-cup-thailand-record-spt-intl/index.html
     
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  9. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    I would say "that's a horrible dirty play and no kind of celebration justifies that kind of violence. The culprit should be suspended from soccer for life (but, the team was kind of stupid to keep celebrating in that manner)." And, I bet you their celebrations would have been different had they been playing Canada, or Germany - a team they know wouldn't stand for being humiliated.

    And, again, just like you can't twist this into criticizing them for "being happy." You can't twist this into a justification for violence.
     
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  10. orcrist

    orcrist Member+

    Jun 11, 2005
    Bay Area, California, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not twisting anything. Again and again, violence was introduced into this conversation about non-violent acts. If that's not equating the two, then what is?

    Edit: P.S. The rep is for the first part of your post, your straight answer :)
     
  11. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    It's not equating them. It's saying that what they did was bad sportsmanship. (fwiw, I didn't like when Griezeman did the "take the L" in the World Cup). And, that there are basically no sportsmanship rules at that level. Hence, sportsmanship is kind of enforced by the players. Part of the dynamic yesterday was that the U.S. knew that the Thai's weren't going to do anything.

    .
     
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  12. Anthony

    Anthony Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 20, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    According to legend, the English first played soccer with the head of an invading Danish prince.
     
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  13. DoyleG

    DoyleG Member+

    CanPL
    Canada
    Jan 11, 2002
    YEG-->YYJ-->YWG-->YYB
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Speaking of violence, or threats there of.

    https://www.tsn.ca/former-canadian-...s-goal-celebration-criticism-on-tsn-1.1320944
     
  14. Dundalk24

    Dundalk24 Member

    Jul 20, 2007
    PA/OH
    How does this “truth” contribute to the discussion?
     
  15. orcrist

    orcrist Member+

    Jun 11, 2005
    Bay Area, California, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If she's getting death threats she should report it to the police. Is someone here arguing in favor of those death threats? No? Okay, we're all in agreement on this incident.

    Edit: Just to be absolutely clear: Sending death threats at *all*, let alone about a sports event or anything someone is saying about it is *insane*. It's not natural, or to be expected, and I condemn that unequivocally.
    But just to be clear... you're introducing that here to somehow add guilt by association to American fandom, yes?
     
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  16. orcrist

    orcrist Member+

    Jun 11, 2005
    Bay Area, California, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So now it's subsumed under the euphemism of "enforcement". Breaking legs would "enforce" sportsmanship? :confused:
     
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  17. Runhard

    Runhard Member+

    Barcelona
    United States
    Jul 5, 2018
    You surely can't be this naïve. Do you not know that players often take matters into their own hands when refs fail to make calls? Do you not know that players stall and waste time by faking injuries when they are up by a goal late in a game? Do you not know if you showboat or embarrass someone on the field unnecessarily you may have some retribution thrown your way?

    These things have been in sports for years and will continue to happen long after this world cup. Surely this is not surprising to anyone that posts on a soccer forum.

    I believe the point that started all of this, or least what I was responding to, was yes it would have been predictable for Thai to go in studs up and injure someone after the US stomped on their heads. And partly understandable.

    Is it right, no, but it happens and is predictable.
     
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  18. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why not, this can be a way to tell fifa that too many teams qualify to the WC.

    We may see a few high scores for the men in 2026 when they go to 48 teams.
     
  19. orcrist

    orcrist Member+

    Jun 11, 2005
    Bay Area, California, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Of course, I'm aware. And these things are all reprehensible. Particularly the violent ones, and potentially career-ending retribution is the most despicable of all.
    So why does everyone cavalierly say these would be an understandable consequence of *celebrating*? All of the things you name harm the integrity of the game, or even endanger someone's career. Celebrating does *none* of these things.
    These priorities are all out of whack.
     
  20. Runhard

    Runhard Member+

    Barcelona
    United States
    Jul 5, 2018

    Good luck tilting at that windmill. These things have been in soccer forever and will continue to be. And it's not the cheering for yourself, it's the cheering after the game is already over, and being so over the top it is seen as a slap in the face to the team you are playing. It's a direct insult and that will always be challenged by folks on the other team. In this case, Thai did not see it as an insult but many other folks probably would ( based upon social media) and retribution could be expected, based upon the history of the sport.
     
  21. orcrist

    orcrist Member+

    Jun 11, 2005
    Bay Area, California, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, I'll tilt at the windmill of moving the overton window on the acceptability of targeted violence as retribution - pardon me, as *enforcement* - while you all tilt at the windmill of telling winners how to celebrate their wins.
     
  22. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    More or less, yes. Well, the threat thereof.

    Again, I'm not defending it.
     
  23. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    Listening to the women on the Football Daily podcast from the British radio station 5Live: The nation of Thailand has about 1,000 registered female soccer players. In the country.

    Put's Rapinoe's pirouetting run in perspective.

    Aside: it's a good discussion of the tournament, I recommend it. The ladies are duly in awe of the U.S. team. Also, Hope was on there and she sounds ...... rational.
     
  24. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    Gotta point out that she was spewing that special Canadian brand of jingoism: "As a Canadian we would just never ever think of doing something like that ... For me it's disrespectful, it's disgraceful ... "

    Riiiiiiiiight, cheer when the key opposition player ruptures his achilles .... but celebrating goals is beyond the pale. Canada, we can always count on you to hypocritically pat yourselves on the back.

    And, no, that doesn't justify death threats in any way shape or form.
     
  25. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    And just to be clear, the reason people are citing Tancredi, who had nothing to do with this game, is because she literally stomped on someone's head-- unlike the US players being accused of figuratively doing it...

    (Fortunately it was Lloyd's head IIRC, and probably left head marks in Tancredi's foot.)

    And isn't this deriving an ought from an is? It is the same topic as major league pitchers throwing at people's heads because they don't like how they flip the bat after a home run. It happens; but treating it as something that should happen because you flipped your bat wrong is barbaric.
     
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