13-0 Discuss....

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by McSkillz, Jun 12, 2019 at 4:59 AM.

  1. McSkillz

    McSkillz Member+

    UCLA Bruins
    United States
    Nov 22, 2014
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1 McSkillz, Jun 12, 2019 at 4:59 AM
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019 at 5:06 AM
    I wanted to create a separate thread on the controversy that has plagued this result the past 12 hours.

    EDIT: Wanted to add, I found nothing wrong with the celebrations actually. I want to make a controversial statement that if these were the USMNT we were talking about taking on a minnow and taking them down 13-0 everybody would roar at their prowness and have a bunch of beers out of their wins.

    For the women, everybody in the mainstream media finds a way to always make them "unsuccessful" by putting them down for being so great. Didn't matter if this was the case for Thailand, the USA women were put down for Japan too if I remember correctly.... hurting their feelings in one paper I read and will try to link. Sexism still exists.
     
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  2. jackiesdad

    jackiesdad Member

    Apr 13, 2008
    I'm not completely sure it's a gender thing. But one thing people are forgetting is that, up until yesterday, Lavelle, Mewis, Pugh, and Horan had NEVER scored in World Cup competition. This is a big deal. Are YOU going to be the one to tell Mallory Pugh that she's not allowed to celebrate her first ever World Cup goal because it happened to be the 11th goal of the game?
     
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  3. Andy Zilis

    Andy Zilis Member

    Mar 9, 2005
    Rochelle, IL
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #3 Andy Zilis, Jun 12, 2019 at 5:42 AM
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019 at 5:54 AM
    It has absolutely nothing to do with gender. Saw this tweet earlier, and completely agree:

    I have problems with Rapinoe's celebration and the celebration for Morgan's 5th goal in particular. I'm not for telling anyone they can't show enthusiasm for scoring goals. I just expect the players to show some class while doing so.
     
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  4. Kevin625

    Kevin625 Member

    Jan 4, 2016
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Agree with both of you. I didn't have a problem with any of the celebrations and didn't really remember anything bad, so I re-watched all 10 goals in the 2nd half to watch the celebrations to see what was so bad that some people were complaining about.

    I made a list, but never posted it anywhere...

    Even by the 4th goal of the game in the 50th minute the celebrations were already very subdued for the most part, with a couple exceptions. Half the players on the field were barely celebrating the goals at all at 4-0.

    Red font = only part of celebrations I can even assume anyone is complaining about.

    Goal #4 - Mewis (1st) @ 49.28
    Mewis (first WC game and goal) barely celebrates, Rapinoe jumps on her, rest of team jogs over and hugs her.

    Goal #5 - Morgan (2nd) @ 52.39
    Morgan's 2nd and barely celebrates, Rapinoe standing right next to her barely jumps on her, a handful of players standing nearby pat her on back or quickly hug her.

    Goal #6 - Mewis (2nd) @ 53.47
    Lavelle standing nearby jumps into her arms, a few players walk over and quickly hug her

    Goal #7 - Lavelle (2nd) @ 55.35
    Lavelle's 2nd goal (in first WC game), mild fist pump by Lavelle, no one jumping, a few players jog over and quickly hug her

    Goal #8 - Morgan (3rd) @ 73.36
    Morgan gets WC hat trick and barely celebrates. Rapinoe slowly jogs over and jumps on her for a second, a few players walk over and pat her on the back.

    Goal #9 - Rapinoe (1st) @ 78.37
    Rapinoe runs over to the sideline, spinning around, does some weird kind of sprinkler celebration, teammates on sideline who have been spectating all game join in celebration. Looks like this was the first celebration that included the bench players (many of whom are at their first WC).

    Goal #10 - Morgan (4th) @ 80.19
    Morgan's 4th, barely celebrates at first, but then counts to 4, a few players quickly hug her or pat her on back, Rapinoe walks back to midfield with arm around her for a few seconds. I can see how some people may have been turned off by her counting to 4 (maybe a little arrogant).

    Goal #11 - Pugh (1st) @ 84.01
    Pugh's first WC game and goal. Came on as a late sub, not even on the field for 15 minutes yet. Jogged over and celebrated with team

    Goal #12 - Morgan (5th) @ 86.45
    Morgan jumps on Rapinoe (ties WC record). The 3 subs jog over and pat her on back, Morgan jogs over to bench and celebrates with team.

    Goal #13 - Lloyd (1st) @ 91.42
    Lloyd's 1st (ties WC record with goals in 5 consecutive games) and gives mild fist pump. A few players jog over and pat her on back, Ellis jumps up and lightly celebrates on sideline. First time I think they showed Ellis celebrating, but I imagine she did this for all her players and all the goals.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    The only things I saw that anyone could possibly complain about are Morgan counting to 4 and Rapinoe's celebration on her goal.

    I think Rapinoe's celebration was just her goofing off and celebrating with the whole team, specifically trying to include the 12 bench players, many of whom are stuck watching from the sideline at their 1st World Cup, some of which might not get to play a minute in the tournament. Looked a lot more like team bonding to me.
     
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  5. Kevin625

    Kevin625 Member

    Jan 4, 2016
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Morgan barely celebrated most of her goals. She counted to 4 on the 4th, which I can see why people might be turned off by, but she barely showed enthusiasm after her 2nd and 3rd goals. She didn't show much after the 4th except the finger counting.

    I can kinda see the point about Rapinoe's celebration, but she ran directly over to the bench and did it in front of (and with) her teammates that were stuck on the bench watching the entire game. This looked to be the first time (9th goal of the game and 79th minute) that anyone celebrated with the bench players. I honestly think she just did it to include the bench players, many of whom are at their first WC ever, and a lot of them will be lucky to play 30 minutes if any at all for the entire tournament. If she would have done it out in the middle of the field, I think it would have been bad, but I didn't think celebrating for the 1st time with the players stuck on the bench was a big deal at all.

    The US was barely celebrating goals as early as the 4th goal in the 50th minute and none of them were in the face or directed at the Thailand players on the field.

    If anyone has an issue with the quantity of goals scored, well that's just ridiculous.

    As someone else pointed out, in the past year, Thailand blew out 4 different teams IN FRIENDLIES and small tournaments.

    May 27, 2018 (Friendly @ Indonesia)
    Indonesia 0 - 13 Thailand

    July 2, 2018 (5-team tournament)
    Thailand 8 - 0 Timor-Leste

    July 4, 2018 (5-team tournament)
    Thailand 11 - 0 Cambodia

    July 6, 2018 (5-team tournament)
    Thailand 8 - 0 Malaysia
     
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  6. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member

    Jul 6, 2006
    the issue is three of those four...weren't the biggest celebrations and weren't the late game celebrations; only pughs goal was late

    its morgan, rapinoe and the team celebrations the last five goals that are the issue.
     
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  7. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This pretty much sums up how I feel too.
     
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  8. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This assumption definitely makes sense, unfortunately, the first (and for most, last) impression I got, watching it live, was that it was excessive and lacking class.
     
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  9. Plxix

    Plxix BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 13, 2006
    This WC is now officially about butthurt over player celebrations.
     
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  10. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nah, this will all be forgotten by the second set of group stage matches.
     
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  11. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member

    Jul 6, 2006

    totally agree with this

    the other thing is that perception is reality like it or not so the fact that was our(along with many others) first thought means it was an issue.

    my after the fact issue is that they are leaving out a lot of sides in trying to defend them.

    I am about to rant

    1)most teams wouldn't have been like thailand and just quit and took their beating silently. Someone would've gone studs up on someone. people tried to bring up germany-brazil to defend the american players They learned quickly that germany literally stopped celebrating in the first half. Also one of the criticism of brazil was why they didn't kick someone(literally) at some point to atleast stick up for themselves.

    2)the 'what if men did it' defense is the worst defense. I mean can you imagine what Paul Pogba would be dealing with today had he done what rapinoe did or celebrated a fifth goal like morgan in a 13-0 win(heck a 5-0 win) it would cover half the papers in the world bashing him.

    3)I hate the 'they had to keep playing out of 'respect' for thailand'. Nobody said they shouldn't stop playing(although thailand did stop) they just needed to stop the over the top celebrations. If that is true then maybe instead of consoling the player mogan should've been talking about her goals and how they couldn't stop her.

    4)terrible take by the fox crew. 'the us had to run up the score to show the thailand fa that they don't support their women enough'....when you are that desperate to justify it then its probably a good idea to stop and move on.
     
  12. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member

    Jul 6, 2006
    unless a chile/sweden player when they get down a few goals decides they aren't going to let rapinoe/morgan celebrate on them like that and they go studs up/late in on a challenge and change the course of the wwc for the us team.
     
  13. Plxix

    Plxix BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 13, 2006
    #13 Plxix, Jun 12, 2019 at 9:00 AM
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019 at 9:11 AM
    Yeah the players should've stopped celebrating because of how you feel.
     
  14. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    Actually, yes, that's almost exactly what I'm telling her, right before she enters the game at 69', with the score already 7-0 and Alex Morgan stuck on two goals, with a total of six goals yet to be scored.

    But she's really just hearing what I've already communicated to the entire team: "I'm not telling you not to score, and I'm not telling you not to be excited or to celebrate, but ... consider the circumstances. Big smile, wave to the crowd, blow a kiss to your mom in the stands, pats on the back all around; no cartwheels, no antics, nothing choreographed, no counting on fingers - yes, Alex, I'm talking to you."

    As is often discussed, though, we don't have a good solution to mismatches like yesterday's.
     
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  15. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, only the Brazilians retaliate like that.
     
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  16. skim172

    skim172 Member+

    Feb 20, 2013
    No doubt some people would. But I wouldn't. I'd be as upset with them as I am with the USWNT right now. I remember the USMNT taking out Barbados 8-0 in a WC qualifier, and I remember turning it off after Donovan scored a free kick while the Barbados team was still setting up. The Barbados team didn't realize the ball was live - probably because none of them were professionals, and several of them had actually been recruited from open public auditions because Barbados had not been able to fill out their roster. One of them was a barber, I think.

    I understood goal differential was important. But I also remember thinking that that was a lame excuse, when the USMNT would easily win the group anyway, and at 8-0, it hardly seemed to matter. And it felt ... cheap. For us to have our best ever player tack on an extra because their opponents weren't familiar with quick free kick.

    So no, I'm not thrilled with the USWNT now. They're going to walk this group anyway - why tf did they feel they needed to do this against some minnows?

    Morgan going over to comfort a crying Thai player after the whistle felt even more condescending. "Hey, we humiliated you into public displays of tears, sorreeeeee but seriously, not sorry, git gud."
     
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  17. Father Ted

    Father Ted BigSoccer Supporter

    Manchester United, Galway United, New York Red Bulls
    Nov 2, 2001
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Really? You're a coach and making a sub and your instructions are watch your celebrating?

    These women have earned their celebrations. We can complain about the Rapinoe celebration but did you see her at 12-0 with a few minutes left and the ball trickling towards the sideline, yet to hustles and sprints over to stop it to whip in another cross? That's commitment whether it's 0-0, 1-0 or 12-0. No half assing the play so no half assing the earned celebrations.

    Also, what's your over under for celebrations? 3 goals up? 5? 7?
     
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  18. TheKraken

    TheKraken Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Jun 21, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was Rapinoe's celebration that was way over the top. I don't know what she was thinking. She's been there before and should have much more class. The rest weren't that bad, except Morgan jumping into (I forget who's) arms and getting held up after the 5th goal. That was a little much too, but not as bad as Rapinoe.
     
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  19. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    At the risk of repeating myself, yes.

    Now, let me ask you a question. When is enough, enough? If we banged in ten goals in the first half, then kept pouring it on in the second, for another 8/10/12 goals - could we ever reach the point where you would say, 'okay, even for me, Father Ted, that's enough.'

    And if you can imagine reaching that point - at 20 goals, say, or maybe at 90 goals, a tidy goal/minute - then can you really not imagine a fellow human being and soccer fan reaching that point somewhat earlier?
     
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  20. Gilmoy

    Gilmoy Member+

    Jun 14, 2005
    Pullman, Washington
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So ... it was like Sweden (women) and Slovenia (men) dancing? :D

    Morgan's finger-counting might be her response to about two years of social media muttering (including some here :whistling:) that she's lost a step and hasn't produced much in a couple of years. Even us NWSL diehards didn't quite see that coming.
     
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  21. Nick79

    Nick79 Member

    May 4, 2015
    Club:
    Olympiakos Piraeus
    I don't really get bothered at all by celebrations in sports, and I prefer running up scores, if the opponent doesn't like it, stop it. The thing to me that is disturbing is the whole women's game. There may be 3-4 teams that can compete with the USA and the rest are like the crappiest rec team trying to not lose to the developmental academy by less than 8, to me this makes me think the USAWNT should NOT be paid more, they are not the best in the world for any reason other than the USA pushes "girl power" and women's sports, while the vast majority of countries are still thinking the women should be in the kitchen or raising kids, so they don't do anything much to develop women's teams. My daughter plays at a community college and Thailand looked so bad I feel like she could of helped them. It's like if the NFL All Pro team went to an American Football World Cup and played countries that had no youth, college or high school teams, and their national team was a bunch of guys that met at the park on weekends.
     
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  22. Runhard

    Runhard Member

    Barcelona
    United States
    Jul 5, 2018
    Running up the score is sad for Thailand but you can make the argument you have to keep playing. I don't see many people that have a problem with that.

    The problem is celebrating when you score goals after you know the game is completely over and its all academic. I don't care if it is your first goal in the WC, when it comes against a team of traffic cones, you don't need to be too excited about it. Get excited if you score against France. Scoring against Thailand is not that big a feat, as shown by the 13 times the ball went in the net.

    It seems social media and most fans fall on the side of the US women messed up and were a little classless in how the handled it. Hopefully they do better next time this happens.
     
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  23. Nick79

    Nick79 Member

    May 4, 2015
    Club:
    Olympiakos Piraeus
    I would disagree with that, if IT WAS YOU, and you had worked all your life to get there and beat the odds, could you easily contain yourself?
     
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  24. Father Ted

    Father Ted BigSoccer Supporter

    Manchester United, Galway United, New York Red Bulls
    Nov 2, 2001
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Well FIFA made the tie breakers to be goal difference. So if USA last night said ok we'll only score 10 and no more, if Sweden the next day scores 11, they win the group on GD. It's not US'a fault those are the rules or that Thailand was so poor.
     
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  25. Nick79

    Nick79 Member

    May 4, 2015
    Club:
    Olympiakos Piraeus
    As a Pittsburgh Steelers fan, I am actually always pissed when they kneel down instead of tacking on points when they are blowing someone out and they are in range to make a 42-14 lead at least 45-14, basically because point differential is a tie breaker! The hell with sportsmanship, what if you lose a playoff spot on that tie breaker some year?
     

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