10/28 - DC : New England - GEIGER

Yeah, the PK given wasn't deliberate handling and neither was what Jones flipped his lid over.

 

Hope MLS and PRO throw the book at him. You never contact a referee. Especially during playoffs, after a red card, in a losing match.

 

I'm also wondering how much of a punishment Jones is gonna get. There's the fact he got 2 yellows. Then committed a straight red offense. And more misconduct afterwords. Seriously. That scares me.

 

Should be at least 6 matches. That's what Espindola got for shoving the AR after the playoff match at the end of last season.

 

So I admit I was on a phone call at the time and wasn't paying full attention, so my memory is likely wrong, but Jones had a shot in the 87th minute where Halsti dove in and I believe he cleaned out Jones's plant leg right after the shot. I thought it was a situation where if that happens outside the box, it's an easy call and second yellow for Halsti, but since it was in the box and Jones did get the shot away, a no-call isn't a big surprise. I thought that the tackle was pretty bad to the point of thinking it should have been called anyway, but again, I wasn't paying full attention at the time. Am I mis-remembering that event? Was that tackle as bad as I thought?

Oh, and just to echo everyone else - no justification for what Jones did, should be 3 games minimum, would prefer 5+, but it's MLS, so who the **** knows what they'll do?

Edit: @Ismitje posted this in the MLS PBP Thread:

 

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2015/...out-round-playoff-match-between?autoplay=true

This may be the worst thing ever, for a variety of reasons, and I am pretty sure I disagree with Simon about both penalties.

PS - What could possibly have happened in the 69th minute that would have been that off ball, lead to Agudelo rolling around before being substituted, and be a yellow card (not red) on DCU?

 

The Boswell-Agudelo thing was so far away from the ball it's hard to know what happened or who even saw it. In theory that's the sort of thing Penso would have been watching and it would have been very close to him.

 

Yeah, Jones needs to be suspended at least 6 games. Way to blow your top, man.

 

Conversely, Geiger had moments before called a play on in NE's favour for a questionable challenge on a United player, a like challenge for which Halsti received his yellow...high legs, exposed studs, player makes contact with the ball but is played through. One way it's a yellow for United, the other it's an advantage call for NE, and like enough that the crowd was most displeased. Geiger's calls on physical challenges aren't up with the consistency I would like.

On the handball on the NE end, there was definitely more separation there than there was between Jones and Franklin, and Franklin's were in a natural position for his motion, where as it didn't look like that was the case for NE. As mentioned, without a better replay, it's hard to say definitively, but I think the separation and motion were the chief contributing factors in the difference.

 

Looking at Borg's replay on the MLS FB page, I think separation was the contributing factor to the call against NE, but I'd have been OK with a no-call. I can see why he gave it, though, given the space, and he is well positioned on both that and the one at the other end. Franklin is at about a third that distance and had no chance to move.

 

Geiger has got to ********ing hate handballs at this point. This is his third major handball controversy in the last couple years, all very close calls in big games.

 

Can you blame him? They come with "damned if you do, damned if you don't" moments that end up screwing him either way.

 

I wasn't shocked at all because at that point in the game, his team needed that call to go their way, and considering an incredibly similar call was made at the other end, he expected consistency (as did I).

On the first PK call, I'm still not sure the ball hit the arm. From the angle facing the defender, it looked like the ball hit the side of his body and not the arm, but from the reverse angle, it looks like it might have hit his arm. The first angle looks more definitive to me. Additionally, the defender's arm wasn't far away from his side, and he seemed to be trying to avoid the contact.

The second one looked like a good no-call. The defender's arm obviously made contact with the ball, but it was at his side and there was no time for him to avoid the contact. Considering how similar this play was to the earlier one, though, I expected it to be called.

I think if the two plays had been reversed (in terms of when they took place), I think neither would have been called. The second call looked like the clearer one, and with the more ambiguous call happening later, I'm guessing he would have called them the same way because they were such similar plays. Everyone would have been a lot happier. Geiger's actions wouldn't have been seen to have had an impact on the result, and Jones wouldn't have an impending multi-game suspension on the way.

Andy Herron was red-carded in a very similar situation back in 2005 at the very end of the 1-game eastern conference final and received a 6-game suspension for the following season. I'm not sure how much the disciplinary system has changed in the last decade, but that situation seems almost identical to the one that happened tonight.

 

I think you might also wonder if the fact that DCU didn't score on that PK might have entered his subconscious as well.

 

Fabian Espindola got 6 games for pushing a ref at the end of United's playoff series with NYRB last year, so the precedent remains set there.

 

I terms of reaction time, I was curious, and checked...
For the hand ball penalty that was called, it took slightly more than 1/3rd of a second from when the ball was played until it hit the arm.
On the non-call, it took about 1/6th of a second.

 

So twice as long!

Jeez, I am starting to think our referee is jinxed.

 

Little bit of background on those previous suspensions.

2005 Eastern Conference Final:
Chicago appears to equalize late, but AR George Gansner correctly flags for offside on the build up. Herron goes nuts on Gansner and is sent off by Terry Vaughn.

Then last year Gansner was again the AR in question. Close in/out decision. Leaves the flag down and a goal is scored shortly thereafter. Replays and freeze frames show it was a correct no call. Espindola goes off on Gansner after the final whistle and is sent off by Ismail Elfath.

Both players were suspended for 6 matches at the start of the following season.

Jones could theoretically get 8. 6 + 1 for second yellow + 1 for failing to leave the field in a timely manner.

 

I have a problem with the 'hand ball' he did call. As a matter of logic, if a player is moving his arm out of the way of the ball, how can it be considered deliberate handling? How can you handle is you are striving to not-handle?

 

Re: the debate on how many games he should get, don't we all remember the Dempsey incident over the summer? The nuances of USSF procedures were put forth by everyone. For professionals, it is a minimum of 6 games for Referee Assault (MLS called Dempsey's "Abuse" somehow and gave 3). I think that's where the previous standards of 6 came from that @ManiacalClown referenced. I watched both of those plays he mentioned as they happened, and I think Jones' is worse. He will have to get 1 game for the 2YC issue, but I would like to think that MLS gives more than 6 games for that level of Assault. Herron's came from a different era, but if Espindola's recent actions warrant the minimum, then it feels like Jones has exceeded that. As the camera cuts in, it looks like Jones gave him a somewhat-light 2-handed shove to the chest, but it's tough to tell. We also don't know what happened before the camera cut in to the closer view.

The whole discussion is moot, obviously, but I just wanted to point out that anything less than 6 games (7 total games) should be off the table, per the USSF guidelines in place.

EDIT: I also think that MLS will delay the decision/announcement of this until just before the MLS 2016 Regular Season, so as to avoid Jones being prohibited from USMNT duty during that period, and also to bury an embarassing story about an MLS star player. Remember, the 3 game MLS ban allowed Dempsey to return just before the Gold Cup started.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ld-cup-qualifiers/?postshare=8661446153707504

 

True, but if his hand was over his head, and he was moving it out of the way when it was hit, would you have the same reaction?