What are you really trying to suggest? I don’t need you to post links which I’ve already watched umpteen times
Suggest? You asked a troll question so to save my time from responding I just posted some comps that I never knew you had watched If you had watched them previously it wasn’t because I had linked them to you btw so let’s mske that clear (You probably saw them on a unrelated thread)
Messi was better and he had a better CL run. Ronaldo actually missed two big penalties (one in the SF against Barca and another one in the Final shootout). Messi at this point was so explosive that he shifted defenses virtually every time he moved forward out of fear. People who are watching him just now and are young don't know what kind of monster a young Messi was.
Ok so here are some interesting stats for Messi’s 2008/09 season (approximately 80% of matches played) Lionel Messi 2008/09 (advanced statistics) 31 goals in 42 appearances 3.3 dribbles per match 2.3 key passes 2.5 shots per game Shooting accuracy:56% Chance conversion:29% I only have advanced stats for premier league matches played by ronaldo in 2007/08 2007/08 premier league only 31 goals in 34 appearances 2.9 dribbles per match 1.5 key pass per match 4 shots per match Shooting accuracy:59% Chance conversion:24% https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/free...15/opta-stats-for-the-epl-season-2007-08/amp/ https://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/jun/11/cristiano-ronaldo-manchester-united @Danko Messi being clearly better is based on what? He had slight advantages in dribbling but ronaldo was a greater goalscorer and a frighteningly complete one Even beyond the tangible aspects of their performance ronaldo 07/08 was a total show Every match of the day in 07/08 was basically a ronaldo highlight reel He was dominant like scoring against all premier league challengers Arsenal,Liverpool,Chelsea,mid level teams,relegation teams He fired consecutive blanks against Barcelona in the CL SF fair enough but that doesn’t detract from what was otherwise a dominant individual campaign in which he was the best player in Europe from beginning till end Messi had superior attacking partners in Samuel eto’o and Thierry Henry(ie players who could share the load) Ronaldo was half of Manchester United’s goal supply he scored 42 goals+8 assists out of 108 team goals he directly contributed to 45% of his teams goals Messi scored 38 goals+17 assists out of 154 goals directly contributing to 38% of his teams goals So even if Messi was a more creative player(creativity here being playmaking not dribbling where they were quite close but in different ways) Ronaldo was a greater scoring threat in a more defensive league With harsher fouls and tackles I’m going off on a tangent a bit here but the premier league that ronaldo played in averaged 22% more fouls than the PL that Suarez of hazard play(ed) in https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/22253531 The premier league in 07/08 averaged 2.64 goals per match compared to 2.9 goals per match In 08/09 La Liga 08/09 Barcelona was a very high scoring team (already a super team) with 3 forwards who scored 25 or more goals Manchester United was not,they literally had one talisman who they relied on week in and week out. Bottom line They were Completely different players with different skillsets so it is absurd for anyone to claim that Messi was clearly better than ronaldo pre 2010
Until 2010 Messi was not unanimously regarded as the best in the world imo (... he reached it more or less in 2010/2011 season. Imo 2006/2007 Ronaldo >> 2006/2007 Messi 2007/2008 Ronaldo >> 2007/2008 Messi 2008/2009 Messi > 2008/2009 Ronaldo 2009/2010 Messi > 2009/2010 Ronaldo One thing I like to do, is analyze who was the Best player between a World Cup and another, I think this is an interesting way to analyze who was the best player within a significant period, an extraordinary season some players may have, many seasons at very high level much less players. From the WC2006 to the WC2010, I rate Cristiano Ronaldo as the best player, then Messi, and in third place could be Ibrahimovic, Kaka, Xavi and others up to debate. From the WC2010 to the WC14, it was clearly Messi with Cristiano Ronaldo as the second, and third is up to debate could be Robben, Ribery, Lewandoski, Muller, Xavi, Pirlo, Van Persie, Rooney, Sneijder, Iniesta, Ibra between others. From the WC2014 to the WC18, it was again Messi, here I put Neymar as the second best player (many could put Suarez or Ronaldo here, but not me), and in the third could be Eden Hazard, Luis Suarez, Cristiano Ronaldo etc. To be honest, I don't know if the 10-14 CR7 was really better than 06-10 CR7 (and few people remember that, for me I remember 06-10 Ronaldo being more dynamic than 10-14 Ronaldo) In any case the difference would be very little. Back on topic: DBS Ratings (Top5): La Liga 2008/2009 Iniesta 7.127 Messi 6.730 Henry 6.696 Eto 6.657 Forlan 6.624 Premier League 2007/2008 C. Ronaldo 6.947 W. Rooney 6.944 Lescott 6.845 S. Gerrard 6.839 Torres 6.753 In fact it needs a close inspection. PD I value PL more than La Liga.
In 08/09 Iniesta played 26 out of 38 La Liga matches:68% any seasonal rating based on a sample size smaller than 75% of league matches should be discounted Messi was the clear cut best performer in 08/09 in league+champions league Also don’t rely too much on DBS calico otherwise you’d have to admit a before prime Francisco totti was a better performer than prime ronaldo de Lima in 1997/98 Serie A (And apparently so was bierhoff)
DBS Calcio Minimum 75% league matches played La Liga only 2014/15 1.)Lionel Messi:7.818 2.)Cristiano ronaldo:7.166 3.)Jose Reyes:.7.132 4.)Neymar:7.076 2015/16 1.)Lionel Messi:7.434 2.)Andres iniesta:7.264 3.)Luis Suarez:7.146 4.)Neymar:6.962 2016/17 1.)Lionel Messi:7.603 2.)Isco:7.096 3.)Suarez:6.934 4.)Neymar 6.917 Neymar became overrated in ligue 1 with a seasonal rating of nearly 8 while in La Liga he failed to crack the top 3 (even at one point being ranked behind a 33 year old José Antonio Reyes LMFAO) This is your source btw so don’t cry about how unfair it is
Gerard pique 2009(Barcelona player) “Ronaldo has everything: dribbling, shooting, heading and goals," Piqué said. "Although he's a tiny little vain when it comes to fashion and looking at himself in the mirror, he's great fun and a very likeable person. And there are no words to describe how good he was last season. He is one of the best players in the world: only Messi can challenge him for that” https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....onel-messi-cristiano-ronaldo-champions-league Yaya toure In May 2009(Barcelona player) “For now, Ronaldo is No 1, He has so much power - just look at the goal he scored against Arsenal from 50m. And he is quick with the ball at his feet and strong in the air.” If Messi helps us to win the Champions League, then he deserves to be known as the best player in the world.” https://www.goal.com/en/news/1716/c...ronaldo-better-than-lionel-messi-for-now-yaya Lionel Messi 2009 “Manchester United have quality everywhere," . "So many good players. But if I had to pick one out it would be Ronaldo. "He is a player I would pay to watch. "He and I are very different players but he is unbelievable, very special, and it will not be easy to stop him." https://www.goal.com/en/news/1716/c...-id-pay-to-watch-manchester-uniteds-cristiano
I remember this being arguably Messi’s best performance in 2008/09 He scored a hattrick away against Atlético Madrid and looked to be a constant dribbling threat For what it’s worth he was also given a standing ovation by Atlético Madrid fans Ronaldos single best performance in the premier league against a 6th place Aston Villa in March 2008
DBS Calcio 2014/2015 Cristiano Ronaldo (2º) Neymar (4º) Suarez (14º) 2015/2016 Suarez (5º) Neymar (7º) Cristiano Ronaldo (14º) 2016/2017 Suarez (3º) Neymar (4º) Cristiano Ronaldo (7º) 2017/2018 Suarez (7º) Cristiano Ronaldo (22º) According DBS Calcio average position in La Liga: Neymar (5º) Suarez (7º) Cristiano Ronaldo (11º) ________________________________________________________________ If you combine these ratings with the objective methodology of whoscored, OPTA stats: 2014/2015 Cristiano Ronaldo 2º (8.48) Rated 35 times Neymar 3º (7.96) Rated 33 times Suarez 5º (7.69) Rated 27 times 2015/2016 Neymar 2º (8.43) Rated 34 times Suarez 4º (8.00) Rated 35 times Cristiano Ronaldo 5º (7.99) Rated 36 times 2016/2017 Neymar 1º (8.52) rated 30 times Suarez 3º (7.80) rated 35 times Cristiano Ronaldo 5º (7.61) rated 29 times 2017/2018 Cristiano Ronaldo 2º (7.94) rated 27 times Luis Suarez 3º (7.72) rated 33 times 1) Neymar 8.30 (97 matches) 2) Cristiano Ronaldo 8.02 (127 matches) 3) Luis Suarez 7.81 (130 matches) _________________________________________________________- Results: According DBS Calcio in La Liga: Neymar > Suarez > Cristiano Ronaldo According Whoscored in La Liga Neymar > Cristiano Ronaldo > Suarez So, objectively and subjectively... Neymar is better rated than both: Cristiano Ronaldo and Luis Suarez according DBS Calcio and whoscored.
You do realise this is just league form? Cristiano Ronaldo wipes the floor with Neymar+Suarez+Messi combined in champions league ko stage matches since 2014/15 2014/15 to 2017/18 Champions league QF to finals Neymar 7 goals+0 assists in 9 apps Suarez 6 goals +2 assists in 11 games Messi 2 goals 2 assists in 10 games Combined total MSN 15 goals+4 assists in 30 games Cristiano Ronaldo 16 goals +2 assists in 19 games Neymar is a fake “elite”playmaker with 0 assists in champions league QF to finals 90% of his CL assists against a poor teams like Celtic in the groupstage Messi well he only tends to score in champions league groupstage matches nowdays And Suarez is a complete non factor in this discussion no wonder Neymar only ever finished 3rd in the Ballon D’Or once in his career Which unsurprisingly was the same year he scored the vast majority of his CL QF to final goals (2015) besides this he is top 5-10 material in the world at best even 12th this year LOL
Ronaldo failed to be a difference maker in the 2008 CL in either the semifinal or final. To make things worse he also missed a penalty in both (in game then shootout) and fortunately got bailed out. Goalscoring stats are close but Messi's playmaking and dribbling puts him over the edge. Just like it does in general. Starting with 2008-2009, Messi became a better player. Talent-wise he was already there in 2006-2007 but struggled with injuries. With that being said, this thread is a somewhat close comparison. 2007-2008 was one of CR's best seasons.
We can argue about the CL (but even if he missed the PK in the shoot out, he also scored the only goal for United in the final). Carlitos mentioned that Cristiano Ronaldo completed 2.9 dribles per match in 2007/2008 which is not much different than the 3.3 figure for Messi (the table says 46% of sucess rate which is low for Messi standards and even for CR7), we can discuss about the objectivity of these dribbles though. Playmaking is true, but stats - at least for first instance - in the leagues shows that Cristiano Ronaldo was more important for MU than Messi for Barcelona. Look: Goals + Assists - PK per 90 minutes Lionel Messi: 1.11 (not far from Henry or Eto'o). Barcelona = 105 Goals for in 38 matches = 2.76 1.11 / 2.76 = 40.2% https://fbref.com/en/squads/206d90db/2008-2009/Barcelona Cristiano Ronaldo: 1.08 but Manchester = 80 Goals for in 38 Matches = 2,11 1.08/2.11 = 51.2% https://fbref.com/en/squads/19538871/2007-2008/Manchester-United In general this question needs a close inspection, UCL KO stages, and vs the other TOP5 teams in both leagues (I think EPL was more disputed than La Liga back too), CR7 was the Topscorer of the EPL too, Messi wasn't in La Liga. I think Messi started to look really a better player than Ronaldo in 2009-2010, but that was debatable, they are stiil on par. In 2010-2011 he reached his peak and there was no more debate, he def. solidified his position as the best player of his generation that season.
This is once again a totally inaccurate statement. Ronaldo scored the only goal of his team and a great goal at that.that is by any standard definition a difference maker Ronaldo doesn’t score and Manchester United don’t even make it to a penalty shootout,he was the best outfield player on the pitch and the fans recognised that when they voted him uefa fans man of the match. Edwin Van Der Sar won the official MOTM the Way you attempted to simplify the difference between them to ...they were close in goalscoring but Messi has the edge in playmaking and dribbling” You cannot compare the quality of opponents played by ronaldo to Messi Barcelona’s main competitor in La Liga Real Madrid was swept aside by Liverpool 5-0 in the CL round of 16. English teams consistently dominated the latter stages of the champions league while Barcelona was Spain’s sole representative They were a big fish in a small pond Cristiano Ronaldo came to Madrid and was the best player in the Europe in the champions league groupstage in 2009/10 as per opta Scoring 7 goals+3 assists in 6 matches=4 Man of the match awards and in the process destroying the best teams ligue 1 had to offer He was injured at the end of the 2009/10 groupstage vs Milan missing both matches Real Madrid were eventually eliminated by Lyon in the R16 but Ronaldo was the best player on the pitch in both legs From 2010/11 a fully fit ronaldo completely changed the fortunes of Real Madrid In the champions league Ronaldo has had to fight for everything he has won He was never privileged to win a champions league trophy while sitting on the bench with hardly any impact (like Messi’s champions league winners medal in 05/06 matches was “gifted”to him by Ronaldinho/deco/eto’o/puyol who were clearly the best players there)
Record vs top 6 league teams Messi 2008/09 vs Ronaldo 07/08 Lionel Messi La Liga 2008/09 7 goals+2 assists in 8 games Directly involved in 32% of 28 team goals vs periodic top 6 league sides https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/lio...08&verein=&liga=&wettbewerb=&pos=&trainer_id= Cristiano Ronaldo 2007/08 PL 6 goals+4 assists in 9 games Directly involved in 48% of 21 team goals vs periodic top 6 sides https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/cri...07&verein=&liga=&wettbewerb=&pos=&trainer_id= It is worth mentioning the difference in quality between the PL and La Liga during the relevant time period In 2008/09 2nd place PL side Liverpool beat 2nd place La Liga side Real Madrid 5-0 on aggregate in the champions league round of 16 http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/7899615.stm Ronaldos achievements against a demonstrably superior level of league opposition in 07/08 outstrip those of Messi in 08/09 and I might add also by a clear margin
Luis Suarez La Liga 14/15 to 17/18 106 Non-PK Goals (453 shots) + 60 Assists in 130 Matches (Barcelona scored 372 Goals in these matches) 44,62% Non-PK Goals + Assists Contribution https://www.transfermarkt.pt/luis-suarez/detaillierteleistungsdaten/spieler/44352/plus/1 Barcelona won 3 Leagues (2014/2015, 2015/2016, 2017/2018) ___________________________________________________________________________________________ Cristiano Ronaldo La Liga 14/15 to 17/18 109 Non-PK Goals (792 shots) + 38 Assists in 127 Matches (Real Madrid scored 358 Goals in these matches) 41,06% Non-PK Goals + Assists Contribution https://www.transfermarkt.pt/cristiano-ronaldo/detaillierteleistungsdaten/spieler/8198/plus/1 Real Madrid just won 1 League in that time, exactly in the league where Cristiano Ronaldo had his worst performance. Taking into account that both are players of numbers and of final product rather than construction of plays, Suarez had better numbers and was much more efficient than Cristiano Ronaldo facing the same opponents in the League. Barcelona won more Leagues too (3 vs 1). Huge samples (130 and 127 matches).
Apples to pears comparison Champions league >>>>>>La Liga Between 15-18 Barcelona won 3 La Ligas (mainly because of a player not named Suarez) Between 16-18 Real Madrid won the champions league 3 consecutive times mainly because of ronaldo 2016-2018 CL QF to final 16 goals+1 assist out of 29 team goals 59% direct involvement Suarez who? Suarez’s “advantage”came against relegation threatened teams in La Liga. In the champions league against the best teams he has been a complete non factor,especially in quarter finals where Barcelona has repeatedly failed to progress he has always looked anonymous (except when He dived against PSG in 2017 like a dolphin LOL) Bottom line You cannot compare a Hollywood A lister to an Extra in a B rated vampire horror film It is outrageous
Today football is all about stats. You just put stats and rank base on it. CR may have great UCL stats but he failed in 3 of 4 Real's finals. He was great in just 1 of 6 UCL finals in his career. He failed in semis 08, 16 and 18. In the last 3 seasons he was off form in more than half of matches he played. Real let him to spare himself for a few UCL knockout games and except 2017, he failed. Last 3 seasons he was a finisher. With best midfield behind he was great. But as a finisher. I know that he had some assists but it's mainly simple pass. He didn't create Real's game. Thats all. Messi have to create Barca's game and be a top scorer in the same time. Every time he failed, Barca is out of UCL. When Ronaldo failed, Ramos Marcelo, even Benzema scores and Madrid goes to the next round. You know what would happen in last seasons if you put Messi in Ronaldo's place in Real and vice versa ? Madrid would have 3 triplete and Ronaldo with Suarez would be toothless without great midfield. Why CR play in different way in Juve? Well, nobody in Turin let him to do what he did in Real last 3 years and pass almost every ball to him. CR is an all time legend far better than Suarez. I don't need a stats to see it. But put Cristiano's stats in every post is weak. In the other hand, stats are only things what he has against Cruyff Di Stefano or Maradona
Genuine question How many champions league quarter finals has Messi choked in during the past 5 years? Real Madrid don’t progress beyond the QF without ronaldo In 2015 vs Atlético Madrid In 2016 vs Wolfsburg 2017 vs Bayern Munich 2018 vs juventus 11 goals+ 1 assist out of 14 team goals 88% direct involvement in teams goals Messi?
Except that by advanced stats (goals expected vs goals scored) in the last three seasons Ronaldo wasn't being an 'great' finisher, but average, at least in the League. But by the proportion of shots taken and goals scored I couldn't think otherwise in the Champions League than the same, being AVERAGE. The myth that he was being a great finisher in the last three season is spread only by hype and youtube videos (which only show the goals he made and not the shots he missed) it is broken by certain stats. I mean numbers are importantes, but it lacks how they were reproduced (Ronaldo was being very well assisted). But It does give an idea though. Not always like in 2016/2017 vs PSG. Anyway, I don't think it all comes down to Champions League, 2-4-6-7 games for year, I also value the consistency and the current level of the major European leagues, in the same proportion or ever slightly more when none had a great UCL KO performance. That's my criteria though. In the balance of the last 4 years (2014/2015 to 2017/2018) I'm not sure if I rate Cristiano Ronaldo as a top 3 (probably not).
What was maradonas record in the European Cup? I don’t recall maradona doing anything great against the only legitimately great sides he played in the uefa Cup 88/99 Vs Bayern Munich,Stuttgart,juventus he was clearly outplayed by carnevale and careca who were good but hardly great players Maradona has one thing above CR7 and that is god given talent Nobody could match the inventiveness and genius of maradona on a football pitch In terms of club career achievements Influence/Impact+titles+consistency maradona doesn’t deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence and Cristiano ronaldo AT ALL I won’t debate against Cruyffs prime club career 71-74 reaching a higher level of all round performance He was a GOD for Ajax Di Stefano vs CR7 is difficult they are different players in the roles of the pitch The fact that there is a discussion on whether Di Stefano or ronaldo is the best Real Madrid player of all time with supporting arguments both for And against has to be considered Ronaldo left a legacy at Manchester United that matched if not surpassed that of a top 30 all timer George best If he is in also the discussion for real Madrid’s best then surely he outstrips Di stefanos legacy overall And of course at NT level ronaldo has a clear edge