€-Moneyball; High and Low Finance Football

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by Orange14, Feb 27, 2012.

  1. The fraud assistant wanted to have a vote on the WC for club teams and a World wide nations league, which was obviously an attempt to put his sticky FIFA fingers in the treasure chest of the UEFA in a FIFA meeting in Kigali, Rwanda.
    The UEFA put their gun against his head with the threat of a walk out if this was going to take place.
    So shithead buckled and took the crums of a commision going to study the plans.
     
  2. zoekopdracht: eu commission permission of uefa

    An interesting book on the subject of the ESL is this one:
    EU Sports Law and Breakaway Leagues in Football
    Door Katarina Pijetlovic

    In it on page 287, the possibility of clubs to be both member of an UEFA league and the ESL is ruled out as the EU court has decided it can be ruled out by an organization that a member can be member too of a competing entity.
    It basically means you can't compete with the organization you're a member of.
    So no safeguard for the clubs to be member of and earn money in the existing league, while building up the new league
     
  3. Interesting is the notion that the EU doesnot allow clubs or investors to run a league.
    It must be run by an independent governing body:
    upload_2018-11-7_4-36-41.png
     
  4. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord


    1060114624488595458 is not a valid tweet id




    Buying and intimidating journalists. What else is new.

    Hopefully also Real Madrid and Bayern Munich will be investigated though. That it is not only a one sided attack against the newcomers like PSG and City

    Both Real Madrid and Bayern safe havens for the fascists (independent club historian Schulze Marmeling has also written things about this).
     
  5. In this article it is mentioned Brexit would be an incentive for the Big Six to leave the EPL. I actually donot understand it as the UK government has been telling (cannot verify it as I cannot find a source or quote) it will block clubs from operating in a cross border league from UK soil.
    http://ukandeu.ac.uk/will-brexit-break-up-the-premier-league/

    " Meanwhile, there are increasing calls in Europe for the creation of a new football super league for the top clubs in the continent. Both the President of Juventus, Andrea Agnelli, and the Real Madrid CEO, José Angel Sánchez, have aired their desire to create a new competition where Europe’s biggest would play one another more often. It is not the first time this idea has been floated around; Silvio Berlusconi tried in the 1990s, for example.

    Until now, English clubs were extremely reluctant to participate, which killed any project at the outset given their economic and sporting importance. However, in the last few years some Premier League clubs have been more receptive to the arguments of a European superleague.

    Given the possibility of Brexit affecting the economic, commercial and sporting prowess of the Premier League, it is very plausible to ask whether top clubs would consider leaving in favour of a semi-closed European competition.

    It is of course a hypothesis, but the conditions for such a move are only increased by the restrictions that Brexit could bring about. At this point, like much of the analysis around Brexit, there are more educated guesses than certainties, but there is one question that we should certainly ask, because the circumstances seem to point increasingly in that direction: Will Brexit break up the Premier League?
    "
     
  6. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    This is not surprising at all. FFP was just an fake attempt to balance the table and I never thought that it was going to be properly implemented. Corruption is everywhere.
     
  7. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Agnelli has been on this crusade for several years now as the Italian League is slowly but surely falling into an abyss from which it won't easily escape. Juventus built a brand new stadium with their own money and have ramped up marketing in the same way Bayern do things. When you look at their away matches half the people in the arenas are Juve supporters. The only way they can make more money is through a super league.

    Madrid and Barca are facing a revolt from other La Liga teams because of television money and the only way they can preserve their golden geese is to move to a Super League. The Spanish League is a little better off than the Italian one but there are still teams with very small arenas that don't generate much match day income (Eibar's stadium only has a capacity of 8K and cannot be expanded as it is sandwiched in a residential area. Only two teams have built new arenas recently Athletic Bilbao and Valencia.
     
  8. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    And what is that way? Italian business not super competitive. Much easier to extract dough from German companies and their big home market.
     
  9. It's areputed university and he published it in the university's law magazine.
    Going by my experiences at the university the professors heading the faculties arent going to allow something being published if it doesnot meet their quality requirements. So I'm pretty sure he's got it right. That is he's got the professors approval. They could be wrong of course:eek:......;)
     
  10. In whatever article you read that's written by lawyers they all come up with the ESL set up is most likely in violation of EU competition rules.
    So what are those lawyers Bayern etc. have consulted according to the Leaks telling the clubs involved?

    http://www.sportsandtaxation.com/20...a-revision-of-uefas-club-competition-formats/
    "From a legal perspective, however, one may wonder whether such a revision of European club competition formats would not be contrary to EU law. As is generally accepted, also sports clubs, associations and leagues qualify as “undertakings” (or “associations of undertakings”) to which EU competition law applies. Accordingly, one may wonder what the European Commission would think about “guaranteed spots” in the Champions League or even about a separate “closed” competition, all in favour of the most dominant players on the market and most likely resulting in an even more dominant position for them. Can one still hide behind the so-called “specificity of sport” argument, if results no longer matter to get a spot in the most important international club competition? And what about breaking the solidarity between clubs in respect of the division of UEFA’s broadcasting rights?"
     
  11. #1138 feyenoordsoccerfan, Nov 7, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
    To get a grasp on what that "specifity of sports" entails, here's the EU publication on it:
    http://ec.europa.eu/assets/eac/sport/library/studies/mapping-analysis-specificity-sport_en.pdf

    And an independent view on it:
    https://www.pravst.unist.hr/dokumenti/zbornik/2012106/zb201204_697.pdf

    Prof. dr. Robert Siekmann,
    Director of the ASSER International Sports Law Centre, The Hagne
    THE SPECIFICITy OF SPORT: SPORTING ExCEPTIONS IN EU LAw

    And a Dutch Master thesis on the subject:
    http://arno.uvt.nl/show.cgi?fid=142825
     
  12. aveslacker

    aveslacker Member+

    Ajax
    United States
    Apr 2, 2006
    Old Madras
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good discussion here. I was of the understanding that, in the EPL at least, a lot of the profit was coming from viewers in Asia and North America. I don't know how long that model is sustainable. Eventually, these clubs will have to rely on strong arming local governments (like Real) or getting a foreign sugar daddy who uses them to launder money. It's kinda bleak.
     
  13. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    In the US, NBC sports surprised Fox with a higher bid about five years ago and took over broadcast of EPL matches. They spent about $1B US to renew the rights through 2021 IIRC. Viewership has increased markedly and though all EPL matches can be seen, only about 1/3 are free on any given weekend. the others are on the Internet but there is fee to watch them. It's difficult to figure out whether NBC are making any money off this venture. I do watch most of the Liverpool matches and occasionally one of the other big matches when they are on.

    The Swiss Ramble consistently has good financial analyses of various football teams and leagues but no longer posts them to the website but rather uses his Twitter feed. Latest team covered is Barcelona. I find it a bit awkward having to scroll through all the posts and am not a Twitter user so I cannot use any of the tweet aggregation tools. Here is the multi-year fiance table (note the huge income from player sales in 2018; most of this was from the Neymar transfer to PSG):
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    The Barcelona wage bill for players is astounding!!!
    [​IMG]
     
  15. Cannot see the posted images, but given the insane numbers I really wonder if Barcelona really dares to go out of the normal leagues and be dependent on the esl revenues. To me it looks like a suicide mission and my take as always is to put the gun to the heads of those wannabe esl clubs and force them to agree to a more even distribution of the CL/EL revenues or if they're unwilling to stay out of it. Then the clubs have three options, 1. sign at the dotted line, 2. refuse and not participate in CL/El competitions ans 3. to go esl mode.

    My strong conviction is they scramble to sign at the dotted line. Every other move is suicide, given what their expenses are.
     
  16. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Weird, they show up fine on my computer. You can go to the Twitter link and see everything.
     
  17. I can't cause all I see is this text:
    "[​IMG]
     
  18. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I'm afraid I cannot figure this out. I just checked the forum on my Android Phone and my wife's iPad and the images all show up.
     
  19. aveslacker

    aveslacker Member+

    Ajax
    United States
    Apr 2, 2006
    Old Madras
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Barcelona gets a lot of love simply because they're not Real (and of course everyone loves them for their relationship to Ajax), but to be frank, they're absolutely no better in many respects.
     
  20. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    they are not producing quality youth players the way these days and are forced to bring in high priced talent from other teams. Higher transfer fees will harm the bottom line and 'if' there is a reasonable sharing of television revenue in Spain, Barca's debt level may prove to be unsustainable.
     
  21. From the top clubs in the Deloitte/Forbs? and the Swiss ramble list, only Bayern and BVB are capable to survive in case of tv revenues going down substantially because their Business MO is not dependent on those tv revenues.
     

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