Jurgen Klinsmann Needs a Look in the Mirror, and Soon
Posted on February 12, 2013 3:05 am
The US Players aren’t the only ones letting Jurgen Klinsmann and US fans down… And its not all tired legs, long trips and long grass either… And it isn’t just the evolution of CONCACAF. And this isn’t the first team to face those challenges.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PivWY9wn5ps
Meh….let the undue JK bashing begin.
We’re not asking for bashing here. We’re expressing concern with his tactical approach vs teams we’re suppose to get points from in CONCACAF. Loved the victory vs Mexico in Mexico, but it hasn’t translated so far vs the rest of CONCACAF.
I agree that JK has tried to change the way the USMNT play in the midst of World Cup Qualifying.
Not my first choice.
The problem I have is that you completely absolve the players of not playing well when you do that.
Aren’t the players just as culpable for not playing well?
I think Brett put it best when he clarified (in part 1) that the players did play like crap–add tactical dysfunction and playing players out of position and you have recipe for big time mediocrity.
How is it possible that professional national team players can’t
1. Cross a ball?
2. Play multiple positions? I’m not talking moving from defense to attack, but a midfielder doesn’t have the skills or knowledge to move him out wide?
Kljestan is a great example. Out wide he’s useless. He’s quite slow. A defensive liability. Can he cross it? Sure he can, but we don’t cross the ball anymore, so if he couldn’t cross it that wouldn’t make much difference. EJ isn’t the best crosser, but since we don’t cross the ball much anymore its not really an issue to play him out wide. Well, I should clarify, we don’t cross the ball much anymore with the 1st team. The Camp Cupcake guys still cross it a lot.
Agree with most of what you said. Except that Schalke is currently 10th in the Bundesliga and, though not that far away, will probably have a hard time getting to the CL again. They’ve played quite badly, with only one win in the last competitive 10 matches.
You should take me to task, last time I looked at the bundesliga standings they were in 5th or 6th… They have played poorly for quite a stretch…
I was going to take you to task for the fact that you haven’t checked the Bundesliga standings in 3 months, but hey…if you got all of your soccer info from Fox Soccer or Soccer by Ives you wouldn’t know Germany has a league at all!
rollotwomassey 1 day ago
Plus Davies has always been better for the Nats than club. Think of him as our Miroslav Klose…
·
rollotwomassey 1 day ago
You can’t rule out Davies. Even at 75% he’s much better than EJ. It’s not exactly an embarrassment of riches up top…
These Davies people never go away do they?
That would be Lucas Podolski, not Klose so much.
Righteous anger! But I think it’s a little harsh. Klinsmann had a bad game and it’s iffy. I think the other pundit put it best, what Klinsmann wants to do is really a long term process. He can try to implement some elements of it now, but it will take at least a generation of younger players for the system to stick.
People are mentioning Bob Bradley but I think it’s now forgotten that the side had really stopped performing under him straight after the 2010 World Cup. The US did not look good in the Gold Cup they lost and in several games before it. Unfortunately Bradley wasn’t the answer then. But the US has been in a bit of a mailaise for a while now and it’s right time they snap out of it. If anything, Klinsmann has shown that it wasn’t all Bradley.
The US fans and the media needs to look in the mirror also. They slowly becoming like the england fans and media. Always expecting great results and dominance when in reality they arent that good. Stop expecting so much from the US national team, they are who they are an average national team maybe top 30-50 in the world nothing more.
So you’re saying this isn’t the best, most well-rounded, most Euro-experienced group of players we’ve ever had available to us? Last I checked most of are starters either play in the bundesliga, Serie A, Holland or the EPL. When has that ever been the case before. OR are you saying that the whole world has gotten even better then we are. Maybe CONCACAF has passed us by? I think not. This team could be performing much better than it has in CONCACAF. No debating the JK has done great versus the higher quality teams–but he can’t seem to figure out how to beat the teams we’re “suppose” to beat.
OUR starters! Nor ARE… Where is “edit” when you need it!??
Really? And the fact that most of the European-based players played on Saturday or Sunday (in a cold climate), boarded a plane for a 10+ hour flight across 6-7 times zones, trained again with a bunch of guys they see once in a while and played a game in 90F heat in a very hostile stadium, means nothing and has little impact on how they play…let alone play together? Please.
Outside of always arriving from a cold environment to a warm one, this is going to happen during quals.
(posted in the previous topic)
Wed Nov 19th 2008 US 2-0 Guatemala
Wed Aug 20th 2008 US 1-0 Guatemala (season start yet?)
Wed Feb 11th 2009 US 2-0 Mexico
Wed Aug 12th 2009 US 1-2 Mexico (although I’m not sure if the euro season started at that point)
While i’m not disagreeing with your comment, I am pointing out that this is not out of the ordinary for CONCACAF WCQ. The timing of this qual was terrible but it’s something we have to deal with. Good news is that we dont have another one of these poorly timed qualifiers this cycle
Of the dates you posted only one is really a cold weather month. Not sure your stat backs up your argument.
Sorry, I just don’t see this as a big deal. Our problems, regardless of tired legs and long grass remain the same vs. CONCACAF: tactically JK just hasn’t figured it out YET. We’re not asking for panic, we’re just expressing concern.
@LoewenBoy My stats show 4 matches last cycle that players had to play the weekend before and then travel half way around the world to play a World Cup Qualifier on a Wednesday, similar to the match in Honduras.
Now are you saying that the big difference between what you are saying and what i said is the weather difference? Next time instead of typing all those other factors perhaps you should just state that one.
Your checkpoints:
1) Played on Sat and Sun: Check
2) Played in Cold weather then traveled to Hot: No Check
3) Boarded a plane and flew 6-7 time zones: Check
4) Train with guys you see once in awhile: Check
5) Play in Hostile Environments: Check (even more so)
Stats are almost spot on to matching your argument.
@LoewenBoy
Clearly JK didnt take the weather into consideration as he brought very little width into the roster. Instead of coming out with an aggressive lineup (practically forming a 4-3-3) why not approach it with a 4-5-1, offer defensive support to our tired and worn out (due to travel and weather conditions) midfield and backline with actual wingers. Why not play Davis and Zusi (although not a true winger as well)(or even call in Gatt), bench one of the center mids and play Dempsey as an attacking mid behind Jozy/Gomez?
Why play a formation that requires quite a bit of running from out wingbacks to offer width and assistance in the attack?
So while you may blame certain factors on the poor performances, the team was not set up in a position to succeed given those conditions.
But how many times did they NOT play well in games matching that same set of circumstances.
And how many of those games had a large number of those players flying, having played 90 mins a few days before, etc.?
I am not saying you absolve the players of their responsibility, but many will agree playing games in February (middle of the season where teams have played League, Cup and perhaps even Regional games) is MUCH different than playing in August when they are fresh from a summer’s rest. Even November is a FAR cry from February. So, still only one game which you cite that is similar.
that’s why i put “no check” on the Cold to Hot weather climate point. In fact, even the February match against Mexico, we played it in Columbus, OH. Now while it was a mild winter night in Columbus, it was no 90+ degree weather like in Honduras.
As for how many played games the weekend before, i’d wager the Aug. 12 may be pushing it as i’m not sure when european season started in 2008 and 2009 (too lazy to look) and i agree it’s different having the summer break, but between preseason and Intl’ friendly/quals there is still a lot of travel and they are still training.
Regardless, my point is these factors occur in quals. We can’t make excuses. If this was the case, then why did JK even play or call up these players? Because they are professionals and the best players we have. But even that, perhaps if TC or FJ are too tired to run up and down the pitch, perhaps they shouldnt be on the pitch, or perhaps JK should have altered the formation to give them some assistance.
Whoops, clicked the wrong Reply LoewenBoy :-/
terrible editing on my part:
Per the How Many Played Weekend Games question. Outside of the Aug 12th (may be pushing it) i’d wager all of european players on the pitch played games. Outside of Pearce/Bornstein, Mo/Clark and Donovan, everyone else flew in from Europe (going strictly off memory here
)
The biggest difference between this and last cycle is that not only do we have more players playing in cooler weather, but we have more raised in cooler weather, who may NEVER have played a game in those conditions.
Perhaps JK should have brought in more players from Indy. During summer its hot and humid for June thru September. Past 2 years we even had light droughts.
A bit harsh, but only a bit. At any given time, probably more like 20-40.
Because national team competitions have few events from which to draw statistical data (and CONCACAF in particular), no rating system has (IMO) any serious claim to validity.
Invariably, the measuring stick becomes performance in the World Cup, so for the sake of conversation with others, I break down teams into top 8, top 16, top 32, and everyone else.
USA has managed to qualify out of CONCACAF for the 32-team field of finalists for every world cup since 1990 (leaving out ’94), with finishes in the top 16 in ’94, ’10, a top-8 finish in ’02, and three and outs for the others.
So, while qualification is never a given and this cycle combines an arguably strongest-ever field in the Hex with a post-peak cycle for the USA, to regard the USA as a top-32 team is in line with historical performance. Accordingly, qualification for Brazil is a reasonable minimum expectation for the fan base and media.
Any progression beyond the group stage at WC is gravy. That said, I would like to have seen us take on Ghana in 2010 with fresher legs, rather than having to empty the tank to overcome disallowed goals in the group stage.
Whatever the outcome of the Hex, I expect that we will regret…badly…having lost the opportunity to play in the Confederations Cup this summer. It’s hard to imagine this team doing anything more than 3 and out in Brazil. South Africa was this generation’s best shot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07O6qsZT7lc
Calm down, calm down. The quality of the World cup group which the USA finds itself in should pose no problem for JK and the team. Experiment now and find out what your options are before you go to the major tournaments.
Just as a side issue, no one else won a match in the opening games so USA should not worry.
Three countries move on automatically and the 4th place head for a play off, I don’t see Panama, Jamaica, Costa Rica and Honduras on the return a big problem for the USA.
If the USA have not won a game after 3 games in this group I may start worrying.
http://www.sportlistings.com
hillarious. all those teams can win USA at home
I would have liked to see Gatt play instead of EJ. But the game was still very winnable. Honduras played their hearts out, and it’s probably the best team they’ve ever had.
That being said I do agree, the team should look to counterattack more, the team utilize crosses and playing up the middle to keep defenses honest, and it would be nice to play with width as well. Honestly if Brek Shea gets to starting for Stoke City, there’s a solution on the left, if Gatt is played there’s a solution on the right. So the player pool does have width players.
Lastly every other match tied, so if we beat Honduras at home, and Jamaica forces another tie with Mexico, guess who the U.S. has an edge over: Jamaica and Mexico. the Hex is strangely forgiving.
you bring up a good point here. The results in the other two matches have certainly helped here. Results are not easy to obtain on the road, especially in CONCACAF.
Yup, going to Central America has never been easy, the pitches are awful and the home fans make for an intimidating atmosphere. The USA have always scrapped pretty good down though and please, please USSoccer, schedule the return matches in the most northern part of the USA, they have scheduled the next match against Costa Rica in Colorado, that pretty cold in March!
You have to get Brek Shea playing. The transfer to Stoke City is a massive move and can only help his game in the long run. My only concern will Tony Pulis use him straight off the bat or nudge him along a bit for the rest of this season. Arsene Wenger has brought a few good players but don’t get into the starting 11 straight away.
Brek could find himself on the bench for a while, hope im wrong.
With Klinsmann it’s the players fault, with Bob it was his fault. Lol
A national team manager’s job is to manage the national team, has nothing to do with changing the youth structure. We’ve also scored less goals and blown more leads on the road than last cycle. It’s not panic time but it’s ridiculous when people come out and try to argue Klinsmann is free of all criticism.
I believe I may have the solution:
http://www.bigsoccer.com/community/threads/us-vs-costa-rica-denver-friday-3-22-10-pm-edt-8-mdt.1982201/page-6#post-27224553
Not a problem? The US hasn’t looked this lame in 20 years. It’s definitely a problem, and it’s JK’s problem to fix. Time to kiss LD’s ass and beg him to come back, Jurgen.
@ Martininho
I like your evaluation. Many of the comments sadly address very little of the reality of world football.
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