Top 20 American MLS players Who Never Took a Shot Abroad
Posted on February 4, 2012 5:48 am
By Derek Richey of The Straight Red Card
Waking up the other morning, I was thinking about all the Americans playing abroad now (whether it be Mexico or Holland, England or Germany) and I started considering how much things have evolved for the American soccer player since I kicked around a ball competitively back in the late 80s. I started to go back through my MLS memory banks, and then right up to modern MLS, and asked myself “what if things were different sooner?”
What if in the 1990s and 2000s European teams had been more interested in American MLS players? What if they saw the same potential then as they do now? What if Chad Marshall had the same opportunity Tim Ream is getting now? Or, if Steve Ralston were courted by a mid-table Italian team? What if Chris Armas, Brian Ching or Eddie Pope had been offered a legitimate shot at playing in Germany or England or Scotland?
And so, I devised my list of “Top 20 American MLS players Who Never Took a Shot Abroad.” I excluded very young prospects playing today, but included those at least in their mid-twenties. Going back through the years of MLS talent, up to current players, I came up with my list.
While my list may not be perfect and may exclude many, below I still see a whole host of players with considerable talent that have yet to, or never did, make “the move.” In many cases, a move abroad might have helped this group of players bump up their games, take a step forward, or grow as both players and people. And for the more modern players on the list, (as things are trending now) playing abroad would drastically improve their chances of playing for the USMNT in 2014. And I’m not talking about playing in Scandinavia. Plenty of these players could have played in Holland, Germany, France—you name it.
Alas, for whatever reason(s), the following talented players never made that “big move” but in my humble opinion, should/could (have):
1.Eddie Pope: With 82 national team caps and 11 years of Major League Soccer under his belt, it would have been nice to see Pope take a shot at playing abroad before injuries caught up to him. Who knows how the experience would have made him an even better player.
2.Chris Armas: Had Armas avoided that nasty ACL injury prior to the 2002 World Cup, it seems likely he would have made the trip to Korea/Japan. With 66 caps under his belt, and ever the constant professional during his years in MLS with Chicago, Armas would have been a steal.
3.Pablo Mastroeni: Sometimes criticized, Mastroeni was a favorite pick during Bruce Arena’s time at the USMNT helm; later in his career, Mastroeni made overtures towards Europe (mostly Italy)–but nearing his early 30s, potential clubs showed little interest.
Bring Ching play for the Nats
4.Brian Ching: Often underrated, Ching would have been a great target striker for any number of European teams looking for steady production and team play.
5.Steve Ralston: When not rapping with the Beastie Boys under the assumed name of Adam Yauch, Steve Ralston was always one of MLS’s finest well into his mid 30s. With 36 caps and 4 goals, and just nearly missing several US World Cup squads, its hard to reason why Ralston never took a shot abroad.
Steve Ralston aka Adam Yauch
6.Robin Fraser: Named in MLS’s Best XI 4 times, and 27 caps for the US Nats wasn’t enough to get Fraser any serious offers overseas (at least none that were reported). After a late start in MLS, he seemed older and past his prime too soon. Noted for his mentoring of Chad Marshall.
7.Mark Chung: 278 MLS games, 24 USMNT caps & two goals, Mark had moments that reminded you that if he’d ever tried a stint overseas, his career might have developed differently.
8.Kerry Zavagnin: Early in his career he bounced from lower leagues and back to MLS. In 2004, Zavagnin showed us his very best. 21 caps with the Nats might have provided him the opportunity to try things abroad—but it never happened.
9.Kyle Beckerman: Perhaps Kyle isn’t done with attempting an overseas adventure, but he certainly might have tried it earlier. Of course, then we would have missed his development under Jason Kreis. A Jurgen Klinsmann favorite.
Mastroeni and Beckerman show of their tattoos
10.Jason Kreis: Speaking of Jason Kreis, he managed 14 appearances with the USMNT and always seemed on the verge of becoming the kind of player who could flourish in Holland or Belgium or more—but I suppose things worked out for him in the long run.
11.Brian Maisonneuve: A long time stalwart in defensive midfield for the Crew, and a member of the 1998 World Cup team, Brian showed all the talent in his many years with MLS to make that trip overseas and maybe prove even more.
12.Chad Marshall: It becomes less likely every season that Marshall will ever make the big move overseas. While there has been plenty of interest and plenty of possibilities (a trial with 2.bundelsiga Mainz in 2008) the 2008 & 2009 “MLS Defender of the Year” just never seemed to get the right offer or impress enough during a trial to make the leap. He’s yet another defender who might have learned a lot and grown a lot playing overseas—in particular, in Germany.
13.Mark Santel: Many will ask “Mark Who?” A member of the MLS All-Star squads in 1996 and 1997, and 8 caps with the Nats between 1988 and 1997, Santel came to MLS in the early years of the league and showed tremendous potential. His years with the Dallas Burn were fairly exceptional, but he never made much of an effort to try his skills abroad.
14. Brian Carroll: Winning MLS Cups with both DC United and the Crew, Carroll’s skills were highly-regarded by Bruce Arena—and Carroll earned “Man of the Match” honors in his very first game for the US vs Panama in a qualifier in 2005. In many ways, he seemed to just fade into obscurity for the USMNT as other players headed overseas and impressed with teams abroad while Carroll continued his domestic career with little effort to “take the next step.”
15.Eddie Gaven: At 25, Gaven is already an MLS veteran (and unshaven, often looks like he’s much older) and certainly possesses the right skills and traits to be successful player abroad. I’ve never heard much interest from Gaven in doing so.
16.Chris Wondolowski: At 29, Wondolowski’s opportunities to play abroad may be over—but he’s proven himself as an adept poacher who can score goals in bunches at the MLS level—something a lot of teams overseas would theoretically be interested in. Guess not.
17.Dante Washington: 52 goals in Major League Soccer from 1996-2003 hinted at a potential talent that never quite fully blossomed. His 6 caps and 2 goals for the Nats were not particularly memorable—but a trip abroad may have challenged him to take his game to the next level.
18.Brad Evans: Its really up to Brad at this point: how bad does he want a shot at the USMNT in 2014? The trends tell us this: if you’re not playing abroad, then you’re probably not going to get the same consideration.
19.Brad Davis: Perhaps one of the most skilled and best crossers of the ball to ever play in MLS. The true “American Beckham (not Eddie Lewis).” No doubt that Davis would have been a big time steal for a lot of Euro clubs–but at 30, the chances of an overseas move and a regular spot on the USMNT is very unlikely. A bit of a late bloomer, Davis’s best years in MLS happened in his later 20s—which is a shame. Davis has been a player of the highest quality of the past few seasons.
20.Geoff Cameron: If Cameron really intends to battle for a starting role on the 2014 USMNT (as he contends in a recent interview) then he needs to make a move overseas or south of the border when his contract with Houston runs out in the next couple seasons. He has the talent; and word is that there is already some interest from teams abroad for his services. The question is, will he make that move?
Just to clarify for Mr Richey: Top 20 FIELD PLAYERS.
How dare you write a soccer blog that is actually about soccer.
Actually, thank you. Now give us the dog interviewing Landon about his latest conquests.
Landon has not been accepting my interview requests as of late–not since I brought up the “Landycakes” label 2 years ago in our first go-round.
Robin Fraser was unlucky to come up around the same time as Balboa and Lalas, otherwise he certainly would have gotten a lot more caps. He’s one of the very few guys from the 90′s who would have more caps if they were just starting today. (Actually, can we call him up?)
Eddie gaven what???
Robin’s main claim to fame was being a very good MLS defender. In fact, his biggest claim to history is that his getting injured in the ’99 MLS Cup, combined with Gato’s horrible foot skills, meant his team did not win the championship.
He is under-recognized. Not for a lack of taking a shot at Europe. Unless you are aware of offers we are not aware of. Are you suggesting he should have just upped and gone there, saying “Help me, I’m American” like an American version of Christian Bale in Empire of the Sun?
He was good. And his injury in MLS Cup ’99 is part of Galaxy and MLS lore. But did he fail to take a shot abroad? As far as I am concerned, which is a very short distance, Tim Ream is no Robin Fraser. But nobody across the pond had enough sense to give a damn at that time.
Well, through the grape vine I’ve heard there were nibbles from 2nd Div teams in England. That’s not much, but in those days if you were an American who wanted to play in Europe you had to get a hold of agents who were already handling Americans in Europe. According to the sources, that wasn’t horribly difficult to do, but did require some effort and a belief that you could make it there–but it was far from impossible to get the ball rolling.
Interesting tidbits there. Thanks. By 2nd division, I’m assuming you mean the actual second division, not the division called the second division.
To clarify, some Championship clubs, and League 1 clubs both nibbled. No one in the EPL showed any interest–at least none that I know of–and back then I was more “in the know” about any possible American transfer rumors.
Thanks for the reply and clarification. If you meant fourth division, I was about to suit up take my middle-aged amateur credentials across the pond. Is there an O-40 USMNT?
Geoff Cameron should certainly make the move abroad, if only because he’s been such a handy utility player for Blackburn in my FIFA 12 career.
“EVERYBODY MARK CHUNG TONIGHT!!!”
Seriously? lol… I don’t think half of the players listed on there would have made 2nd division clubs in France.
Well, if you think so, why not take a few seconds to list the ones you think were that awful. That would leave you a whole 10 names to list.
Seriously? Half?
Everybody take notice that four of these players were/are members of the Houston Dynamo – Cameron, Ching, Davis, and don’t forget Wondo. Houston under Kinnear has produced some quality players. Our club really deserves more respect than we get.
Five were former Metrostars. Should they get respect as well?
Jacen, after looking at so many wikipedia pages of MLS players I think we can all say that if you had a career in MLS between 1996 to 2008 than in that time you have had at least 1 cap with the Metrostars
Nice list. Can you make one for American players who should NOT have taken a shot abroad?
1. Freddy Adu
2. Ben Olsen
3. Joe Cannon
4. Eddie Lewis
5. Greg Dalby
6. Marcus Tracy
7. Wade Barrett
8. Greg Vanney
To be fair, Eddie Lewis has a nice run with Leeds in the lower divisions and was still well thought of enough to spend a season playing for Derby during their ill-fated stint in the Premiership.
Derek once wrote such an article documenting every American who went overseas in the last 30 years and came back empty-handed. This was about 4-5 years ago for soccer365. It since has been archived, but I’ll see if I can’t get him to send me a copy to post. It had like 120 players on it. I didn’t even know 120 Americans had even TRIED to go abroad.
Interesting. Though given the MLS salaries, I think a lot of American players must have wound up empty-handed even if they had stayed in the US.
no just empty-stomached. ;P
Really, your column just reinforces the idea that there are just two categories–Eddie Pope, and everyone else. There is just such a huge gap between him and Armas/Fraser, etc. I’d have had Mastro as a distant 2nd to Eddie. A few others might have done ok, but Eddie stands alone.
Just for conversation’s sake, though:
Ralston and Santel (and I’ll add C. Henderson). Good college wingers, playing along the touchline. But they wouldn’t have done much in Europe. As a Burn guy, I’ll thank you for putting Santel near the top 10–I’d have never thought of him.
Beckerman–If he’s in the top 10, it’s not a very strong list.
Jason Kreis–did have some attempts abroad before he joined MLS. He might have made a decent addition later on to an English club somewhere.
Fraser–I think he was pretty talented, but just slightly too thuggish to be a great player abroad.
Dante Washington–Would love to have seen him abroad. Not a sure bet, but things might have gotten interesting.
You are talking what it outwardly appeared. I think the dog and the guys who work for him are talking about people who could have made an impression against that general impression.
Ching is McBride. Wynalda, a half-decent forward himself, if not a particularly stable and realistic observer, called him “McBride with a tan.” Ironically, he meant it as a reason for not including Ching on a roster that included McBride, but any American forward could do worse than being a less melaninly-challenged McBride.
Now, I admit I have axes to grind with Ching. I am from Spokane and have connections with Gonzaga University. Ching is a former Gonzaga Bulldog and played for the Spokane Shadow, now defunct. I also think, if you got Sigi Schmidt, now coach of my favorite MLS team, drunk and pressed him, he would admit that cutting Ching loose because he got injured was the dumbest decision he ever made.
Against that sort of misunderestimation, Ching might have gotten somewhere. Or he might have gotten somewhere later with anyone who appreciates a good target forward.
That gets to my other ax to grind. The USA would be better off with Ching even now and Clintdon Dempsovan up top in a 4-4-2 than with Klinsmann’s delusional attempts to make us into Barca Junior.
And Klinsmann might see it more my way if other forwards had followed the McBride path. Or not. He may be too in love with his own idea that Bret Shea is Christiano Ronaldo Without a Tan (a criticism of Klinsmann, not the talented and innocent Shea).
I’ll just totally disagree about Ralston. He would have made a fine player anywhere, honestly. He was just that competent. Beckerman wouldn’t have probably made anyones top 10 3 years ago. Again, he was kind of a late bloomer. Thus Derek’s acknowledgment that it may be too late for him now. But the real point is that these players had the tools to go overseas and “take the next step.” A step many of them didn’t take because they never challenged themselves to make that big move. Who knows what they might have become, rather than also-ran USMNT players. Just for instance, would Cherundolo be the player he is today if he had stayed in the US? I don’t think being named “West Coast Conference Freshman of the Year” in 1997 was any clue that he would become a top back and captain of a bundesliga team. Hell the U-20 teams only noticed him by 1999. The point is, we have no idea what might have happened to some of these guys if they’d taken the leap. And that seems to be the point of this article.
Scott: Henderson *played* in Europe, for FSV Frankfurt of the German 2-Bundesliga. He also played in Norway.
As far as Marshall and Mais were concerend, injuries derailed Mais (he was never the same after his ankle problems around the time of the 98 World Cup) and did not help Marshall. He’s had concussion problems that probably warned some teams off. I’d also (being a fan of that team) heard the Gladbach had some interest in him at one time, but I am not sure if that was just rumor or substantiative.
The use of the word “took”makes it seems as if it was the players decision not to go abroad. Might “got” been more apt?
I believe he explained at the beginning of the article that some players never “got” the chance, and others never “took” the chance. Its different for each player.
Wondolowski was almost transfered to Lechia Gdansk from Polish Ekstraklasa in 2010.
carroll had a tryout in germany and eddie pope had at least one first div offer, decided not to go, as i remember it.
good list though, interesting topic.
Yes, Carroll trialed one time with Alemmania Aachen. Rumors were that he trialed in France too, but I have never seen any documented proof of that. The OTHER rumor was he didn’t take any offers overseas because his wife didn’t want to move there. I doubt that–I mean, wouldn’t he already know his wife didn’t want to go abroad? And if so, then why bother trialing abroad in the first place?
Pope on the other hand was a totally different story. He claims (sadly) that he was offered several opportunities to play overseas from Dortmund and Southampton. He turned them both down (didn’t even trial) because:
“I don’t feel I missed anything by not going to Europe…Sitting on the bench over there was not for me. Here, I had a good contract, so no problem.” (NY Times)
With that kind of (lack of) confidence, no wonder Pope didn’t go abroad. I think he totally underplays his own abilities saying those things. Thankfully Cherundolo, Bradley, Dempsey, Bocanegra, didn’t follow his example. In this way, Pope was also one of the more frustrating players (because he really was good enough) to never have even tried to play abroad. He also could have made some bigger paychecks to supplement his retirement and fix those bad knees.
Yeah, there’s no question -and hasn’t been for about a decade now- that Eddie Pope could have done well overseas. The physicality of Oguchi Onyewu combined with the mentality of Carlos Bocanegra? Hell, I also don’t think there’s any question he was the best American defender ever…AT ALL. Not in my mind at least. I mean, he was no Tim Ream or anything, but whatever.
If you ever saw him live, you would be right there with me…it really was a big difference from watching old videos..and I know what I’m talking about there.
The odd thing about Eddie -and maybe this amounts to nothing more than a sign of the times- is that (unlike Landon Donovan), I actually did (and still do) actually respect him more for his conscious decision to remain here in the US/MLS.
I also think there was no player more “cursed” than Chris Armas. (The player I agree with as a very very distinct #2 on this type of list). I mean, seriously… When he took that weird long-step against Uruguay (iirc – I could look at the tape if necessary) and croaked his leg, I really thought our WC chances were taking a major hit right there. I was seriously down about it…not just for him, but for the team… I admit that I didn’t have much faith in Pablo at that time, and he came through golden come tournament time, there’s no denying that…but Chris was our #1 number 6, afaic. For a well-earned and well-deserved reason.. Don’t get me wrong, there’s no faulting John O’Brien and Claudio Reyna…not to mention our results in ’02…but with Chris Armas in there, they would have been afforded an even more attacking posture…although that observation is based on mere recollection, I guess.
I’m distinctly not guessing that the mere inclusion of Chris Armas would have gotten us past Germany…or even TO them, if it comes to it…certainly no more so than what I considered the joyous and slightly surprising inclusion of Donovan and Beasley in the roster… But, I would say that the ’02 WC would definitely have served as a springboard for Chris Armas’ career. I really have no doubts about that.
I do think there is some division between Pope and everyone else on the list, but I also look at that list, and look at the guys going abroad now, and think it shows that US soccer has gotten some respect over the years. There’s a lot of players who didn’t get much of a shot 10-12 years ago who seem pretty similar to guys who do get one (or get a better one) now.
That supposed picture of Mark Santel looks a whole lot like Ariel Graziani… (who is in fact Argentinian and NOT ‘American’ ;P)
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