I said, Herbalife is a god-damned scam. Apparently you didn’t hear me the first time.
Posted on March 17, 2012 2:27 am
Crime pays. Today, we find out that AEG has locked themselves into association with one of America’s most shameful pyramid schemes for the next decade.
So I took down my vanity site a few months ago, which had some old blog posts, little realizing that I might need to refer back to research I had done earlier. For example, back in 2007 I made a couple of posts about the Galaxy’s successor sponsor to Budweiser, and concluded that the Galaxy, MLS and AEG had gotten in bed with a bunch of criminals.
Here’s something amusing I learned re-researching this depressing topic. You run a Google search along the lines of “Herbalife scam,” and interspersed with the truth you get more than a few “personal” sites purporting to present unbiased reviews and analysis of whether selling Herbalife is a bad idea or not. You might notice nearly all of these sites have suspiciously similar wording, which leads me to believe that these good-hearted citizens are working from a template provided to them from Herbalife Corporate.
(From personal experience, I know that actual grass-roots Herbalife defenders are, with the possible exception of men’s rights activists, the sleaziest, dumbest, most worthless passel of genetic drift it has been my hilarious misfortune to mock. Compared to the best Herbalife defenders, Vince McMahon’s “This is the XFL!” speech was the Book of Ecclesiastes.)
Fortunately, even though renting out David Beckham buys an awful lot of pig lipstick, it’s still possible to get the other side of the story. From, say, here, or here, or here, or here, or here, or here, or here, or here, or here. Or this little bit of reading from the Federal Trade Commission. Hell, even their Wikipedia page is comedy gold. Tell me more about your healthy living company, multi-level marketer whose founder died of a drug overdose.
It’s worth reminding people at this point that literally the only difference between Herbalife and Bernie Madoff is that, as long as there is a tangible product involved, multi-level marketing pyramid schemes are perfectly legal. This is why Amway and Xango are still in business, too.
And they saw that praise was reserved henceforth for those who devised means of getting paid enormously for committing crimes against which no laws had been passed. Thus the American dream turned belly up, turned green, bobbed to the scummy surface of cupidity unlimited, filled with gas, went bang in the noonday sun.
Kurt Vonnegut, “God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater.”
By now it’s reasonably safe to say that MLS, AEG, and the David Beckham management team (a) know all this and (b) don’t care.
Well, it’s a jungle out there. Manchester United was sponsored by the American taxpayer there for a year or so. Shifty little online gambling sites dot the most famous shirts in Europe, and once-proud Barcelona wears the name of a fake charity sponsored by a human rights wasteland. Gotta pay Messi somehow, I suppose.
And if Barcelona’s brand and fan base are so impregnable that even figuratively covering the jersey with the blood of innocents doesn’t hinder the march to glory, then what’s so bad about the Galaxy wetting their beaks?
Well, my problem in 2007 is the same as it is today – the Galaxy are still a growing brand. They’ve leeched themselves onto the David Beckham Public Relations Exploding Plastic Inevitable, and everyone involved has profited quite handsomely, but that doesn’t mean that the Galaxy yet have a lasting and independent sporting identity. By the time they do have one, once Beckham finally leaves, the Los Angeles Galaxy will have the better part of a decade worth of publicity and marketing where the biggest word is “Beckham” and the second-biggest word is “Herbalife.” Barcelona can survive the Qatar Foundation, although they probably shouldn’t. Maybe the Galaxy can wipe the stink of Herbalife off their jerseys, too – but after fifteen years, stains tend to set.
I think we’ve also proven that the Beckham circus does not confer legitimacy on those His Highness surrounds. I hate to pick on a new sponsor and a smallish business, but the Galaxy have a new soft drink sponsor. Perhaps some of you out there haven’t heard of Shasta Cola. Basically, it’s what Insane Clown Posse fans drink when they can’t afford Faygo. In case you were wondering, both Pepsi and Budweiser are still MLS sponsors.
The Galaxy do have legitimate sponsors, or at least sponsors who can sell their products over the counter legally. And I don’t want to blackguard the poor folks whose job it is to sell Shasta, but they know what they’re selling. So does the Galaxy. The fact that the only soda products you can actually buy at Galaxy games are from the Coca-Cola company suggests to me that AEG will take money from literally anyone, and associate with literally anyone.
So what, the Galaxy are set for the next ten years. That’s one or two Designated Players every year, right there. Cost of doing business.
Fine, except…here’s what really annoyed me.
The Galaxy and Herbalife also announced today that as part of the extension agreement, $2.5 million will go toward supporting charitable efforts between the Los Angeles Galaxy Foundation and the Herbalife Family Foundation to benefit vulnerable and underserved children. In conjunction with this initiative, the LA Galaxy and Herbalife have announced a joint program benefitting Children’s Institute, Inc. (CII), which will see the organization receive a $1 million donation to support fitness and nutrition programs at a new facility CII is planning in Watts, Calif. In addition, players from the Galaxy, Herbalife independent distributors and employees from both organizations will provide volunteer support to other CII locations.
And that’s a wonderful way to spend 1/44th of the deal’s value. Really, it is. It’s very nice. Nice enough that you’d think this would be part of the M.L.S. Works purview – you remember, when they ran a contest to give away fifty grand. Wow, MLS has come into some money since the dark days of 2010. Am I going to sit here and cynically suggest that either MLS or Herbalife could conceivably have dropped a million into CII’s hat without using the other as cover?
Damn right I am. I had this little Facebook exchange with whoever the poor sucker was in charge of making posts tonight. It’s a thankless job, being a finger puppet, and I almost felt bad about going off on the poor wee lamb and/or ewe, except – well, here, read:
The important things to emphasize here are: 1) the length of the contract and what that ultimately says about the stability of our league now; and 2) the incredible community component tied into this partnership. If you remember, the team had an amazing experience at an orphanage in the Philippines in the postseason tied into Herbalife’s Family Foundation
I understand why they deleted my comment – my follow-up is still up – but I stand by the points I raise, which I made in rather rude fashion. I’ll try to reproduce it as best I can:
So, wait, if it wasn’t for Herbalife, you would have blown off the orphans? It was only the Thin Green Line that kept you from coming out with jerseys with “Fuck Orphans!” on the front? Or was it the other way round – did you leave money on the table, because Herbalife was the only company that was sufficiently pro-orphan? When you asked Budweiser, did they say “Orphans? Who gives a shit about orphans?!” Help me out here.
Now, I’m not saying that the Galaxy don’t really care about orphans.
(The Galaxy don’t care about orphans, by the way. If it weren’t for those fascists at the Food and Drug Administration, they’d be serving bacon-wrapped orphan at the Home Depot Center, and we all know it. They’re Modest Proposalicious!)
And maybe my language was a bit salty, if not as salty as a delicious bacon-wrapped orphan. But the fact remains that both Herbalife and AEG have more than enough money to do this sort of thing on their own. If the Galaxy were trying to make the Children’s Institute initiative seem like cover for the blatantly unsavory aspects of this sponsorship – or worse still, a PR-friendly tax writeoff – then mission accomplished. If you want to help orphans, then by all means, help orphans – but don’t turn around and use those orphans as travel agents to book guilt trips to your fans.
If the Galaxy had simply said “Herbalife offered the most money, we don’t think it hurts the brand, and oh by the way, princess, this is a business, and if you want to go back to the minor leagues the Pali Blues are ready when you are,” I could respect that. This would still be a post filled with information about how scummy Herbalife is, but hey, this announcement will end up saving me close to two grand in unbought jerseys, so I don’t have that much room to complain.
But at least don’t patronize the people who are supposed to be patronizing you. You have forty-four million reasons not to care what people think about this sponsorship, and Galaxy fans are impervious to morals at this point in any case. (Lose integrity now! Ask me how!) Don’t pretend this was about the community, or the children. For the moment, Google still works.
By the way – this won’t jeopardize the possibility of me getting a press pass, will it?
Bernie Madoff conned milllions off dollars from people who – well, who had millions of dollars to be conned out of.
It’s terrible and some people pitched in a lot more than it made good sense to put in the same basket, but they saw the absurdly high returns that Madoff was claiming and their greed got the best of them and if it means some folks had their beach homes foreclosed on, well, it’s a shame. Truly.
Herbalife preys on the desperate, the “Make millions from home” people who can’t get decent employment. They borrow money and take out seconds on their homes and give it all to Herbalife and end up losing everything and living in their cars.
Madoff took money from people with more money than sense.
Herbalife takes the last dollar from desperate families and leaves them impoverished, destitute and homeless.
But it’s OK with MLS because some of this blood money ends up enriching the LA Galaxy.
Herbalife ruins lives and AEG/MLS/Beckham Inc. have nowhere too hide on this.
The naked fact is that they really just don’t care.
So a corrupt and criminal organization is a sponsor of a team in a sport known for being a corrupt and criminal organization.
Why is this shocking?
As I threw out all my Barça gear when the Qatar “Foundation” news broke, it occurred to me that a single consonant keeps the term “shirt sponsor” from being more accurate.
The bottom line is that scumballs in all forms (Herbasuck, Jack Warner, the local dude running “elite” camps) can leech off of soccer because it’s the perfect game and because we love it so much. It’s a side effect.
[url=Coca-Cola accused of propping up notorious Swaziland dictator]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/02/coca-cola-accused-swaziland-dictator?fb=native&CMP=FBCNETTXT9038[/url]
i kinda wanna shasta now.
Amway now has a big sponsorship with the Detroit Red Wings. It has angered a few of the die hards.
Next shirt sponsor in MLS will be “Bernard Madoff Investments”
How’s the bacon-wrapped orphan at Jollibee
Mmmm… bacon-wrapped orphan. I hear Jonathan Swift had a good recipe.
He’s just being modest.
Buy more Barbasol, everyone. Integrity and a clean shave.
Umm, if you type “so and so company” and scam after it on google you can pretty much find similar comments about every company on the planet.
Your off your rocker and need to better spend your time elsewhere, your credibility is getting shot with your silly rants about drivel such as this
Maybe United Russia can buy a shirt sponsorship. Or Devry Institute. Or Art Instruction Schools.
Utah/MLM = San Fernando Valley/porn = Seattle/Overpriced coffee and buggy software
Trust us, we know scams when we see them. We know where the untracked powder is off of Wildcat and Collins and we know scams. Herbalife is a scam. But only to a greater extent than Xango because it’s been around longer than Xango.
http://articles.latimes.com/2001/feb/18/magazine/tm-26780
But on the other hand, many; heck most, MLS fans have tried to emulate Herbalife’s founder.
Be that as it may, Herbalife is in fact a criminal enterprise masquerading as a legitimate business. As Archer noted above, they are a particularly stomach-churning fraud that preys on the poorest, weakest, and most ignorant elements in our society. The government, which pretty much exists for the purpose of protecting people from parasites like Herbalife, have been installed near the top of the pyramid scheme via generous campaign donations. And now Herbalife has focused their targets on children via their sickening sponsorship of AYSO.
Don’t confuse Herbalife with a legitimate business. It’s actually a Ponzi scheme with a legitimate business mask.
That was meant as a response to i Pinch. The newish comments system is exactly why I never comment on BS blogs anymore.
And yet we would celebrate a sponsorship from a company like Corona beer when the truth is, people drink that product, get in a car, and then kill a family of 4. I think there are quite a few companies out there that the league should avoid.
Madoff ruined lives, too. There were folks that invested their retirement savings with him and now have nothing.
Really? This sounded like logic to you? So you’re imagining defense lawyers across America standing up and saying, “Let’s not get all obsessed with all this evidence that my client committed massive fraud when the judge herself is holding a gavel that could be USED BY A LUNATIC TO BEAT BABIES TO DEATH!”?
I guess this is beside the fact that Herbalife product is crap anyways. Not just the benign stuff their product is made of but the shamanistic claims it makes regarding effect on health. It’s all based on placebo effect, hype, and bs. Can you now focus on how cable television is a joke and a rip off, and that those of us who refuse to participate in a monopolistic, over-rated product, feed-the-greedy scheme are screwed when it comes to watching live soccer/sports?
Merci.
Shasta Cola is delicious! I actually prefer it to both Pepsi and Coca
Is that why Bruce keeps throwing the sponsor under the bus? “Fatigue,” my heiny. Doesn’t Il Bruce know that Herbalife makes a perfectly good anti-fatigue drink?
Maybe you’re not familiar with Herbalife. Regardless of the ranting of this article, the content and opnion are widely held as true. Herbalife is a scam in the way it is set up as a business, and as a product. I don’t really have an issue with your lack of respect for the article, but you give the impression you may find Herbalife both an acceptable company (regarding ethics) and a suitible sponsor for an MLS team. Hogwash, I cry! Kuddos to a good topic and a good rant.
Yes.. it is logical. If anyone is going to have problems with products that can cause problems in ones life then I think alcohol should be included on that list. Not sure how you don’t get that logic.
Are you fat/obese? Is that your problem? I don’t get your point. Herbalife sponsors Internazionale Milan, Leo Messi & Barca and many other way bigger brands than Galaxy…
Are you kidding me?
“Madoff took money from people with more money than sense.”
I read all of your fifa corruption articles, but I just lost so much respect for you.
http://thepinehillsnews.com/wp/2009/02/06/madoff-conned-the-ultra-wealthy-and-everyday-people/
“But the Journal said the Madoff list included many everyday people, many of whom are just finding out that they are among the Ponzi scheme victims. In addition to prominent individuals, the list also names housewives and retirees, a plumbers union and a high school as Madoff investors.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_investors_in_Bernard_L._Madoff_Securities
yea there are country clubs listed, but there are charities too. Rich and famous people make better headlines, but plenty of other lives were ruined.
yes. that’s his beef. i hate people who shamelessly con poor people out of their rent money, because i’m fat. also, i hate pedophiles and serial rapists, because i’m fat. also, i hate kfc and long john silver’s, because i’m fat.
i’m kidding, of course. who could hate long john silver’s?
also, VW is a terrible sponsor, because it leads to child-on-child no-rebounds violence. DC should be ashamed of themselves.
Seconded.
As to the point, the difference is that legitimate businesses sell a product. Herbalife sells “distributorships”.
They don’t make money from vitamin sales and the sponsorship deal isn’t because they hope soccer sells protein powder.
The whole idea behind this sponsorship is to use MLS to legitimize a fraud.
Jesus Christ. I generalized a little. Shoot me.
The point is that Herbalife specifically targets (preys on) desperate people while Madoff was going after bigger fish. Did he catch some relatively smaller ones, along with the money managers for some charities who should have known better? Of course. Everybody knows that..
So just take your absurd moral outrage and cram it sideways.
Given that Amway pretty much owns the western half of Michigan, I’m surprised that they don’t have deals with more of the Detroit teams. At least Amway (for the most part) sells legit products unlike Xango and Herbalife.
…their politics are another story though.
it’s actually the stuff that my hospital serves to patients in tiny half-sized cans.
/why, yes, we are a state-funded institution.
Biggest scam on the planet. Trust me, for the love of god, trust me.
Very very funny stuff.
One can enjoy a drink without being addicted to it. There is a difference between the possibility of addiction and the reality of falsehood. A really good whisky or really good chianti is really good. A really evil scam is a really evil scam. Whether some people have a tendency to be addicted to really evil scams or not is a question very different from whether some people have a weakness for alcohol, regardless of whether or not it is the “good stuff.”
That reminds me of the day when I pissed in my neighbor’s Amway drink powders stored on the shelf when I was a wee young ‘un.
Making generalizations about the performance of a soccer player or team is one thing. Making generalizations that suggest a company has engaged in criminal behavior are another, unless you’ve got very solid evidence to back it up, which neither you nor Dan Loney does.
Now go ahead with one of your pithy insults. I can hardly wait.
Do you consider Anheiser-Busch a legitimate company? They also sell distributorships.
Throwing a word like “fraud” around without solid evidence is irresponsible, especially when it is done done by soccer bloggers who are well outside their realm of expertise (assuming they have one).
http://www.ftc.gov/foia/herbalife.pdf
Would the issues noted in this document be civil or criminal?
I should know, but I don’t. I also don’t know where the nice powder is off of Great Western. I am a bad Utahn.
Amen.
Blitzz Boy, the documents are consumer complaints to the Federal Trade Commission about Herbalife obtained in response to a 2001 Freedom of Information Act request. The FTC can institute civil actions against businesses. The documents don’t seem to indicate whether the Commission did that with regard to any of the complaints.
I don’t think that Herbalife is “criminal”, personally, they seem to act within the law. But your post post seems to indicate that one should not say that a company participates in criminal behavior if there is not “proof”. That’s bogus, since real proof is determined legitimate or not in a court of law. Making allegations based on observations and knowledge of current law and past court decisions (not that the article specifically does that) is very common and is what leads to criminal investigations. Given what Heralife does and how they go about it, I’d say that Loney is well within reason to make the suggestions he does.
At Skipper60601: You haven’t even looked at Anheiser Busch vs. Herbalife as comparable companies and how they work and are organized…it’s freakin’ obvious. I repost my respone to you earlier:
I don’t think that Herbalife is “criminal”, personally, they seem to act within the law. But your post post seems to indicate that one should not say that a company participates in criminal behavior if there is not “proof”. That’s bogus, since real proof is determined legitimate or not in a court of law. Making allegations based on observations and knowledge of current law and past court decisions (not that the article specifically does that) is very common and is what leads to criminal investigations. Given what Heralife does and how they go about it, I’d say that Loney is well within reason to make the suggestions he does.
Your use of companies as analogies to water down the argument does little. They are questionable comparisons and seem theoritical and cherry picked. Herbalife is set up as a pyramind scheme to dupe customers into selling products (lousey and useless ones, IMO) with their own investsments… and that is the simple, rather benign description. Please respond to the allegations with counter arguments that address Herbalife’s business practices. This is about Herbalife, not alcohol.
Well, at least Herbalife is only moderately more objectionable than AEG. You can simplify your life by hating both (while appreciated that if AEG didn’t see MLS as a long-term real estate project, the league would no longer exist).
Dan, you’re such an idiot, clearly you have no idea what you’re talking about and it seems that you lack the ability to write articles of substance and are not able to please or deliberately do not want to please an educated audience,
If I were you I would burn my laptop, give up the little bit of talent that may have developed into something better if you gave yourself a fair opportunity and go and find a job out of the eyes of the public.
Jagou needs to do a follow up on this story. It should be on Jorge Vergara’s Chivas and Chivas USA. Omnilife is owned by Vergara and it seems to me like it is the same “wolf in sheep’s clothing” type of company as Herbalife. From what I have read, Omnilife was funded by Vergara with direct involvement from Herbalife’s Suicide Victim owner. Now Vergara owns Mexico’s, if not the U.S.’, most popular soccer team, has a 200 million dollar state of the art soccer stadium with Omnilife splattered all over it. It seems to me like soccer teams are a perfect way to turn a scam into something “legit”.
I don’t see how it’s bogus to say that people who accuse others of fraudulent behavior should actually have some evidence to back it up. And mere allegations that are not backed by some actual evidence lead nowhere.
I used Anheuser Busch to show that selling distributorships doesn’t automatically mean a company isn’t legit, as Bill A. seemed to suggest. Not are all companies that sell distributorships pyramid schemes. If you have facts indicating Herbalife is a pyramid scheme please share them.
Whose lives have been ruined by Herbalife?
I think your position that it’s OK to make scattershot allegations of fraud without evidence to back them up is absurd. I’m open to actual facts demonstrating the allegations being thrown around about Herbalife. I just read a great piece by Matt Taibbi of Rolling Stone about Bank of America and its misdeeds. Taibbi made some very serious allegations, but at least he had facts to back them up. Neither Loney nor Archer is a Matt Taibbi, and I don’t think they should try to be.
Hey Spambot/Sockpuppet, how’s about you follow your leader into the great beyond.
Who are the contents of the article widely held as true by? Dan, you and Bill? And how is Herbalife a “scam”? How is Herbalife unethical? Try stating some facts in support of your accusations.
Q’bert, all you’ve shown is that you don’t know what a Ponzi scheme is. In fact, I doubt most of those posting accusations here would know the difference between a Ponzi scheme and a pyramid scheme without looking it up. In terms of its structure, it appears that Herbalife more closely resembles a pyramid scheme, although I’m not saying it is one. It is not a Ponzi scheme.
If you read those here, here, here links, they’ll tell you.
I’m glad some of you can reason in a way that supports your personal feelings. I’m sure you can drink without becoming addicted and doing stupid stuff, just as I feel you can probably get involved with Herbalife without losing all that you own. I wonder how many lives have been destroyed by Herbalife vs. Alcohol… whatever helps you sleep at night I suppose.
Well, yes of course in hind sight everyone should always have known better about everything ever. I share the same exact sympathy for people that got ripped off by herbalife that I do to those ripped off by Madoff. Don’t see how a ponzi scheme is so much more obvious to see through or less evil than a pyramid scheme, in fact it is probably easier to see through a pyramid scheme. Just because some rich wall street types lost money on one doesn’t mean we have to sensationalize everyone that lost money on it. Might as well say anyone who Jack Warner stole from should know better so whatever.
“i hate people who shamelessly con poor people out of their rent money”
well, that’s par for society unfortunately, we have governments nowadays shamelessly con poor people out of their money by all of them setting up lotteries
I think I have similar feelings being a Red Bulls fan. I want to promote MLS but I think energy drinks such as Red Bulls energy drink are a horrible product that are detrimental to society’s health. So far I’ve overcome my moral dillemma by thinking that even if there were no such product as the Red Bulls energy drink, the mascot Red Bulls would still be a traditional sports team name.
Just try this one. http://www.cockeyed.com/workfromhome/epilogue/unsuccessful/unsuccessful2005.html
Oh wait, that’s not *real* proof. Give us all some criteria for what you need as proof. Herbalife is a scam, period. If you are hardcore enough and don’t mind alienating everyone you know, you might be able to sell some products. Eventually, you will realize that the best way to make money is to con other people into *investing* several thousand dollars, and then find that they cannot sell any product either. So then they need to….
Dude, that is the way the company works and makes money, investments are made, and little product is sold. Quit acting like you have some point to make, ’cause you haven’t.
Are you kidding? It seems that everyone you seem to disagree with has known some one who has lost $ in this scam or bothered to follow the provided links or did their own searching. All of your questions have been answered already, yet you sit at your computer typing away with little ability to find out for yourself. Tell us how Herbalife is *not* a scam, since you have already been given plenty of info to read and links to follow.
skipper: I guess that is the beauty of a pyramid scheme isn’t it? It’s set up act like one, yet there is product to sell. “Can’t sell it?….well, that’s not our fault. You were confident enough to invest $5k to start selling. Not our issue”. I think that is just it, many of us here see Herbalife set up as a pyramid scheme (you even wrote that it looks to be set up as one), yet outside of that, and the many who have lost a lot of money selling it, there is no “proof” (but then, it’s set up like one, so is that not proof?). It is never easy to bust a pyramid scheme that is set up to be multi-level marketing…it’s got just enough legitimacy behind it because there *is* product to sell. Bottom line is, I am willing to say it is a pyramid scheme that does in fact pray on people who do not know any better. You are not. I lack sufficient knowledge in the area of criminal law to call it a criminal organization(I have not done that here). Your call for *proof* is a dead end here, what is true proof a multi-level marketing company is a pyramid scheme? It’s a matter of degree and yes, opinioin. Not the only company that falls within this description for sure, but that is the topic of the article.
Hey Dan, here’s your vanity site preserved in the web archive: http://web.archive.org/web/20110201163640/http://www.danloney.com/
Reading isn’t one of Skippy’s strong points.
Or I could spent the rest of my life trying to diagram either of those two sentences.
Is it just me or a lot of these individuals defending pyramid scheme have very similar writing styles?
WOW! I read it all! Thank Zeus we’re cutting school funding left and right, the level of scholarship in internet discourse is alienating to the layperson. I just want my bullets and beer brats without all the fuss. Mmmm… orphacon.
And another member of the idiocracy clubs voices a total useless comment, you’d be bankrupt if you had to earn money from public speaking.
Dan, you’re right, no doubt it will take you that long, intellectuals will only require a second or two.
Based on my own personal observation, I would say Televisa owns the U.S.’ most popular soccer team.
Faux moral outrage is the new world order. Care Bearization of America continues…….Thanks for playing.
My goodness Dan Loney…..you have attracted the pyramid scheme disciples like a flies around an electric night lamp. Thanks for the entertainment.
Ironically, it’s not “inverted pyramid.”
Notice that the disciples didn’t come until an entire day after the blog had been posted, meaning that BigSoccer got some nice temporary users.
Most of us objecting to Herbalife are doing so on the grounds that it seems to be a pyramid scheme, not on the grounds that its products are addictive (I’ve never heard that they are). So the comparison between Herbalife and Corona is irrelevant.
For a LONG time I’ve been saying that soccer has kept AEG away from more destructive pursuits. Which is true for a lot of us.
Suckers are born everyday..!!
I would never waste my pith on you, Skippy.
Let me see if I can make it simple:
1) Nobody is suggesting that Bernie Madoff didn’t hurt people. In fact, unlike a lot of people, I wouldn’t even suggest that hurting rich people isn’t as bad as hurting poor people. Stealing is stealing.
2) The difference is in business models. Think of it in terms of Payday loan outfits. Their business model is predicated on charging absurd amounts of interest to people who can least afford it. People who need to borrow $200 because they can’t afford groceries or put gas in the car and won’t get a paycheck for another three days are helpless, vulnerable and desperate. They have nowhere else to turn and taking advantage of them is immoral. Period.
3) And yes, frankly, people who presume to manage large mutual funds SHOULD “know better” than to put all their eggs in a basket like Madoff’s. These same people justify the absurdly large paychecks they deposit every week on the premise that they’re “experts” and therefore “earn” their money because they are so much sharper than everybody else. That doesn’t give Madoff a pass by any means, or mitigate his crimes. The fact that he’s behind bars today speaks to how society rightly views what he did.
Here’s the bottom line:
Bernie Madoff is in jail. The people who run Herbalife are posing with David Beckham and MLS profits from their immoral trade.
Dan’s whole point – if I may presume – is in his simple headline: “Herbalife is a scam”
And frankly, your lack of knowledge as to how these things work is appalling.
Wait:
You think Anheuser Busch having “distributors” is the same thing as herbalife having “distributors”? Really?
Dear readers, thank you for your intereest in the Herbalife products. By now you have realised that some people are very pro Herbalife and other extremely against it.
I would like to thank Dan Loney, and the power of his almighty edit button, for giving me the opportunity to confess my crimes. What I do for a living is disgusting, unethical, reprehensible, shameful, and inexcusable. It’s too late for me, as I am destined for the eternal fires of hell. But it’s not too late for you. Scream from the rooftops that, in the words of a great, great man, Herbalife is a god-damned scam.
Dan Loney is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I’ve ever known in my life.
Kind regards
Paul Landman
Shithead
South Africa
i hate the government! because i’m fat!
the comma splices complicate things.
Unfortunately, all you gave us to read is unsubstantiated accusations from the Internet. Did you talk to anyone who has invested in a Herbalife distributorship? Have you looked at any of the distributorship agreements? Have you spoken to anyone who is an expert on pyramid schemes or on comsumer fraud? How about checking with the Better Business Bureau? Responsible adults do their homework before they publish serious allegations.
Bill, your response to me doesn’t make a lot of sense. I never accused you or Dan of saying that Madoff didn’t hurt people. I think everyone agrees that he did. Second, your claim that selling distributorships equals a scam really doesn’t hold up under scrutiny. Lots of legitimate businesses sell distributorships. You need to know more about how the particular business functions before saying that it is a scam. I also never commented on whether Madoff’s victims should have known better, so your diatribe on that subject isn’t necessary or responsive. I’ve never held myself out as an expert on pyramid schemes. My point is that neither you nor Dan Loney is an expert on them either, and it shows.
Really because I thought the argument was that is destroys lives therefore is evil. Well, alcohol destroys lives…
Sorry for the comment order mess, this is in response to Skipper above, in case it’s in the wrong order. (EDIT – I guess it’s in the right place.)
Skipper, the answers to your questions are (1) why the hell would I do that when their propaganda is both readily available and easily seen through, (2) yes, (3) yes, (4) you know what, it had honestly never occurred to me. I wouldn’t have thought they’d qualify, for the same reason that Herbalife can’t really be skinned for the low quality of their products – technically, Herbalife isn’t selling the garbage to the victim, but some other weasel/victim. MLM gives Herbalife a layer of deniability.
And then, thanks to you, I looked up Herbalife on the Better Business Bureau.
Holy shit. A+. I decided to stop right there, come back, and apologize to everyone involved. Actually, no. I summoned up every last bit of physical strength left in my bloated carcass, like the captain of the Axiom in Wall-E, and see how some of these complaints went.
http://www.la.bbb.org/business-reviews/Health-Care-Products/Herbalife-International-of-America-Inc-in-Torrance-CA-20585#reasonrating
“I responded to an email that I thought my daughter had sent to me for an internet business starter pack for $9.95. In addition, I received a phone call from a “mentor” prior to the pack being sent to me. When I received the information, it was a booklet with DVD providing all kinds of information about how much wealth there was to be made via the baby boomers and the wellness industry. The booklet and DVD is purported to be a “screening test” for both the company and “for you” and that if you work hard you have the potential to make thousands of dollars – though it’s not guaranteed. At NO point did the “mentor” mention Herbalife or was it stated in the booklet, or the first part of the DVD, that Herbalife, a MULTILEVEL SALES company, was behind this marketing “strategy.” It was also not noted that you are basically buying and selling – and getting others to sell – Herbalife products. Don’t get me wrong, my father used to sell Herbalife and the products themselves were good – expensive, but good. My problem is with this deceptive marketing strategy that I wasted my 10 bucks on!! I have no interest in becoming involved with Herbalife and would not have received the pack had I known the pack was from them.
Business response: After an initial investigation, we have determined that the consumer’s complaint involved an independent third-party company. However, now that Herbalife is aware of this complaint, we will assist the consumer in resolving any and all issues they may have with the third party. We have opened a file for this complaint.
——————-
“Complaint: 11/29/2011: Took advantage by offering materials and a way to make money on line. never told me what it was until I paid the ten dollars for just shipping. Once I realized it was a pyramid scheme I told Amy Montgomery I wanted out and my money back- I called her immediately MY BIGGEST ISSUE IS THEY DO NOT TELL YOU IT IS GOING TO COST $200 to get product Hi, At your request, I’m forwarding you the instructions on how to return the Home Business Training package. Make sure you return it before your 14 day viewing period expires to avoid being charged the deposit of $39.95. Also, please be sure to include the cover letter that was included in your package and/or clearly mark your name and my name on the package so that the return can be processed properly. Return the Training Package to: EHome Distribution 9207 North 9th Ave Phoenix, AZ 85021 Upon receiving the training package back, you will be credited so that you are not charged any further for the information. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to share this incredible business with you! Sincerely, Amy Montgomery
Business response: After an initial investigation, we have determined that the consumer’s complaint involved an independent third-party company. However, now that Herbalife is aware of this complaint, we will assist the consumer in resolving any and all issues they may have with the third party. We have opened a file for this complaint.”
———————–
“Complaint: 02/23/2012: Original Message —–From: “Vonia Seay” To: “DANIELLE ONLINE COACH” “Danielle Lefebre Business” Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 2:06:26 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain Hi, I was trying to reach you to let you know I decided not to go with the program. I am requesting a refund and will be sending back all products. I dont think its going to be a good fit and seems as if I am going to be a salesperson no offense. I am kinda of stressed and gettign started is stressing so I am going to have to withdraw for myself. I will send back the products as soon as I receive them all. Please let me know the return shipment address. Plus there seems to be other fees involved and I can not afford those at this time. You were great and motivating but I dont feel it was what I though it would be far as selling. Thanks, Please email : Product Return address
Business response: After an initial investigation, we have determined that the consumer’s complaint involved an independent third-party company. However, now that Herbalife is aware of this complaint, we will assist the consumer in resolving any and all issues they may have with the third party. We have opened a file for this complaint.
——————
Consumer rebuttal: I just know I purchased the product from online business systems and the name of company herbal life and address information was on the package information. I am just wanting a full refund of $400.56. I received email from Danielle Lefebvre stating they were going to refund 324.13 and I am wanting the entire fee I was charged because I returned everything I was sent in the business package $400.56 and I will not accept this resolved until I receive the full amount debited from my visa credit card $400.56 the original transaction ID # 40840549. Can you provide me with the third party information I need to be seeking refund from as well because I received a call from Herbal Life representative and he stated I will be give full refund.”
————-
Starting to see a trend? No? Okay.
“Complaint: 02/03/2012: I agreed to pay $9.95 shipping and handling to receive some information on working at home, but that was all that I agreed to. The information that was sent is only applicable if someone moves forward with an Herbalife home based business, which I elected NOT to do. To attempt to then charge a consumer’s credit card $39.95 for that material a month later to pay for their own marketing materials is deceptive and fraudulent. Even after emailing back in forth and indicating that I was not interested in the program, they made no mention of me having to return the materials or be charged an additional fee. I believe this is a strategy employed by Herbalife to get extra unjustified fees and income at the expense of unknowing and trusting consumers. I have filed a complaint with Herbalife as well as the attorney general’s in both California and Utah for fraud, misrepresentation, and unfair and deceptive business practices, and am preparing an IC3 Complaint Referral Form for internet fraud and misrepresentation.
Business response: After an initial investigation, we have determined that the consumer’s complaint involved an independent third-party company. However, now that Herbalife is aware of this complaint, we will assist the consumer in resolving any and all issues they may have with the third party. We have opened a file for this complaint.
Consumer rebuttal: Per the company’s response, Herbalife has opened a file on the complaint, but taken no steps to resolve it. Therefore, the matter is still unresolved.
Final business response: We have been notified that the refund was credited to the complainant’s bank account on February 7, 2012. We are now closing our file on this matter. Thank you again for the opportunity to assist the consumer.”
——————–
“Complaint: 10/03/2011: They won’t give me my money back!!! They’re selling technique is dishonest. They tricked me into putting up $200 for becoming a distributor. I decided it wasn’t for me and asked for a refund minus the product that they sent me and they refused even though I wasn’t sent $200 worth of product.
Business response: After an initial investigation, we have determined that the consumer’s complaint involved an independent third-party company. However, now that Herbalife is aware of this complaint, we will assist the consumer in resolving any and all issues they may have with the third party. We have opened a file for this complaint.”
——————
“Complaint: 09/26/2011: Fraudulent site promoted one thing posting links for major search engines in an article allegedly written by Melissa Ezarick, the link led me to a another business name E-home business which requested $9.95 for the information that would get me started posting links, after providing my credit card info I was taken to another site and given instruction concerning arranging a appointment with my mentor to be the above mentioned Victoria, we eventually set up an appointment for Friday September 23, before this appointment I took the time to investigate further and discovered that the initial site was fake and the starter package consisted of nothing but testimonials and said nothing of posting links yet hinted at selling products, at the appointment I confronted Victoria and her mentor, they professed that they knew nothing about the fake site and that I could not get my $9.95 back and if I didn’t return it shortly I would be charged another $39.95, only at this appointment did I discover the name of the company that hid behind eight different names Herbalife
Business response: After an initial investigation, we have determined that the consumer’s complaint involved an independent third-party company. However, now that Herbalife is aware of this complaint, we will assist the consumer in resolving any and all issues they may have with the third party. We have opened a file for this complaint.
Consumer rebuttal: I have yet to hear or receive any type of information regarding the statement made by Herbalife nor was I dealing with a third, Victoria Zalensky, I have all of the e-mails reflecting our communication, No the issue is not resolved in the least. If the fake site was a third party how did it lead to the first party herbalife and does this mean that I will not be charge another 39.99 as Ms. Zalensky and her mentor threatened me with and what about my 9.95?
Final business response: We have received the proof of refund from the 3rd party company; therefore we are now closing our file pertaining to this request.”
—————-
“Complaint: 08/02/2011: My Herbalife Sponsor: Irene Robinson, charged my credit card 3,331.36 without informing me of that amount. I was only agreeing to the 200.00 plus internet web site charge monthly of 30.00. They did not get my permission to charge 3331.36 to my credit card. I have done everything I know how and done what they have told me and I still have not gotten my money back. Irene Robinson the Distributor for www dot incomeathome dot [changed to break link] com, Herbalife, will not return my calls nor answer me via phone. I have left several messages.
Business response: After an initial investigation, we have determined that the consumer’s complaint involved an independent third-party company. However, now that Herbalife is aware of this complaint, we will assist the consumer in resolving any and all issues they may have with the third party. We have opened a file # USRF026990 for this complaint. “Our Refunds and Repurchase Department will process a full refund for the products that the complainant had in his possession.”
Consumer rebuttal: HerbaLife has refunded my credit card account 3222.00, but they kept about 110.00 and did not refund it to me.
Final business response: The Herbalife Refunds – Repurchase Dept. has issued a check for the remaining amount sought by the complainant.”
—————
See how many hoops these people have to jump through? They’re an MLM for a reason. Their products aren’t good enough to see legitimately, so they misrepresent who they actually are, and they make their profits from their distribution network. Still not convinced, huh?
—————
“Complaint: 07/11/2011: I was called every day about getting to this program, finally did and then they would tell me in get into Supervisor didn’t say how much when I asked it was 1,400.00 when I put it on my charge card the balance was 2,149.12, told them I was going to return the product that I couldn’t afford this took the product to there warehouse, I was given a paper with a # to call, they would not give answer over the phone then e-mailed me forms to fill out I did and still nothing I went to crdeir card company and disputed the charges, I was checking today and told me that refunded everything but $423.53 and that was the shipping charge that it was not refundable, I think this is a to high I didn’t see any where that shipping was not refundable but if so why so high. I took the boxes back to warehouse they weren’t that heavy.
Business response: After an initial investigation, we have determined that the consumer’s complaint involved an independent third-party company. However, now that Herbalife is aware of this complaint, we will assist the consumer in resolving any and all issues they may have with the third party. We have opened a file for this complaint.
Consumer rebuttal: I spoke to a FX person and he told me that the package that he brought here wouldn’t of cost that much maybe they has a bunch to go out, that there is no way, the 3 boxes could of cost that. He said that he would try and fine out the price for shipping for me, but haven’t seen him.
Final business response: The additional refund requested by the complainant has been issued in full and we are closing our case on the matter.”
——————-
Scam, skipper. Scam scam scam scam scam. They only refund after the Better Business Bureau comes down on them. That’s enough to maintain an A+ rating, because the BBB is really only useful for legitimate businesses.
So why are you in the tank for these crooks, anyway? Genuinely curious at this point.
Updated for readability…I hope
So once my Barbasol can is used up, I can send it to Greenstar Recycling here in Houston and still be on the moral up-and-up.
This is my new favorite thing regarding shirt sponsorships, the “mine is better than yours” phase. Here’s the sequence:
1. Outrage that the “sacred” front is being sullied
2. Wishing the sponsor was a little different
3. Looking at the ones without sponsorships and making fun of them. “HAH! What’s wrong with that guy? He can’t even get a shirt sponsorship.”
4. Garnering moral superiority/inferiority over the shirt sponsor.
Dan is right, if it were on the up and up, that would be one thing. But this whole “We can love orphans now” crap stinks to high heaven.
Dan, question one was whether you had taked to anyone who had invested in a Herbalife distributorship. That includes people who invested but are dissatisfied with the company. I’m glad to see that you have spoken to some experts about this and have checked out relevant documents as well. I am not in the tank for Herbalife at all. If they are as bad as you say, I applaud you for going after them. Just make sure that you have the goods on them.
The point is that merely selling distributorships doesn’t show fraud. Other things may show fraud.
Dear Dan
If you did no not know you may want to take note of the following:
It is unethical to steal from people, to sell them fake health products, to mislead them about the huge possibility of failure due to marketing saturation. Because I know about unethical. The vacuum caused by my lack of ethics could suck the cream out of a Twinkie at fifty yards – said Twinkie being far, far healthier than the literal shit I push on the sleazy, the unwary, and the desperate. The world would be immeasurably improved with my death, and every breath I use to take oxygen away from real human beings makes the world that much worse. Hell awaits me with big sharp pointy teeth. I suck. I pray to God every night for the strength of character to kill myself.
Oh, and I speak for Herbalife. I speak for every single person at Herbalife. Everyone at Herbalife knows this is a scam, and I, Paul Landman from wherever the hell in South Africa, am fully and completely aware of the depth of my crimes. As, again, is every single officer and director at Herbalife. All of them. We’re all criminals. So even if you see posts elsewhere, even if I post on here some more saying something different, don’t be fooled. I, Paul Landman, Herbalife distributor and shitheel, fully and completely believe that what I do is willful, hateful fraud.
Oh, by the way, I’m a criminal. The scum of the earth. I exploit people for my own personal gain, and in return I give them “health” products that actually work worse than a placebo. I am fully aware that my products are connected to significant health risks, and am also fully aware that my company profits from a highly exploitative “business model” indistinguishable from outright theft. Thank you – and God, but mostly you – for the chance to confess my disgusting behavior to civilized, decent people.
Thanks Dan!
Don’t forget to look up Herbalife at http://www.fda.gov
Or you could look up Xango? What a bunch of rank amateurs! 4 hits?
slapsuit! awesome!
That’s a hell of a backdown, Skipper.
You’re a pretty shitty concern troll.
Yeah, because a caffeine/sugar combination is so morally wrong.
so, herbalife claims some of these insane charges placed on people’s credit cards are the result of independent third parties. don’t you need a merchant’s account to sell things (or simply apply charges to, if you don’t actually have anything to sell) someone’s credit card? would you need a court order to get your credit card company to reveal the merchant account #? are they rotating merchant accounts, and if so which banks are giving the same small(ish) group of people new and unnecessary merchant accounts for existant businesses with existant merchant accounts? or are they providing bogus business plans to open new merchant accounts, which sounds like interstate banking fraud.
you can’t say “buy this for $9.95″ then charge an additional $30 for not returning that initial $10 product without going through credit card holders. it doesn’t work with checks in the mail, saying “remember that thing we sold you for $10… yeah, you didn’t give it back to us within two weeks so you must send us another $30. now. please.”
this can’t be that hard for a state or even the US AG’s office to track, can it? the “oh, it was an independent third party” claims should be able to be tracked through merchant accounts, to specific banks where those merchant accounts were issued, etc. no?
Not off topic since you mention it, but if I didn’t think you were writing it just for shock value or to score points with the Alan Aldas/Phil Donahues of the world, I’d call you out as a bigot for the incredibly broad (and stupid) opinion that men’s rights advocates are stupid, etc. Were you thinking of folks that support things like advocating for fed funding of prostate cancer research (which kills half as many men annually as breast cancer but which receives 1/10,000,000 as many fed funds), equitable child support obligations under the law, etc. etc.”? You belittle these issues and many intelligent, serious minded people that advocate for them. Soccer blog…but you brought it up.
I would hate it if my team’s jersey said
“Herbalife”. I prefer to drink Red Bull.
In fairness, I did say “possible exception.”
Excuse me,but you people are mostly missing the point.
The point being,bacon-wrapped orphans actually go better with Red Bull.
So it was Herbalife vs. the church of Scientology and the Galaxy chose Herbalife.
They made the made the correct decision.
If those are your choices, ritual seppuku might be the correct decision.
Are there any companies of sufficient moral compass to be worthy of a jersey sponsorship anymore? I heard a rumor that Quaker Oats uses child labor in poorly ventilated Malaysian oatmeal factories…
Herbalife is a disgusting, horrible scam, and anyone who buys into it is literally better off with a lobotomy.
¿Men’s right’s activists are the dumbests wastes of oxygen? no wonder a mangina like you has to lower himself (oh, that is your level) to name-calling, without naming any facts why men’s rights aren’t important. Tell me why a men’s right’s activist is bad. If you can’t give proper reasoning why, you’re less than anything you make others out for.
I hate MRA’s because it takes them seven months to figure out how to spell “mangina.” – D.
I am a weasel.
A weasel who preys on suckers. Or am I a sucker who preys on weasels? I don’t know anymore. The world will be just that nicer a place when I and all like me are dead.
I’m going to say sponsors ‘suck’. they actually have to work this, but most of them don’t. When you stop going to the seminars, they start to lose money. The product itself is great, the method and cost of getting it is prohibitive. Like the product, hate the business model. MLM.
There’s a White House peition for this http://wh.gov/PLEk
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