The Eurosnob Scale
Posted on August 6, 2009 8:45 pm
In my runaway bestseller, “Let’s Round Up All the Eurosnobs and Harvest Their Internal Organs,” I define the term Eurosnob as follows:
1. a****le
2. douchebag
3. someone born in the United States to non-soccer fan parents who supports another national team.
4. someone who self-refers as a soccer fan, who lives within an hour’s distance of an MLS team, but never goes to games
5. someone who gives reasons for not supporting the Nats, or their local MLS team, for reasons that, if applied equivalently in Europe, would be instantly seen as front-running glory-hunting.
In my followup bestseller, “Is Killing a Eurosnob Really Murder? Is Eating Their Flesh Really Cannibalism?“, I spell out the Eurosnob Scale. Like the Richter Scale, each number is an order of magnitude.
1. You are a soccer player out of college getting dicked over on contract negotiations, or are a developmental player making less than Freddy Adu’s cats.
Oh, yeah, are you kidding? Screw MLS. Screw it, let it make you breakfast in the morning, promise you’ll call, and spend the rest of the week letting your calls go to voicemail.
2. You used to have an MLS team, but it moved, so you support a European team.
This barely registers as Eurosnobbery, provided you support your local USL side. Fans like this can be released on their own recognizance.
3. You have an MLS team, but it’s the Red Bulls, Galaxy or Chivas USA.
Being lumped into corporate brand extensions like Red Bull or Brand Beckham is sufficiently annoying that it’s understandable if you’d prefer not to deal with it. However, cockamamie marketing has been part of the game for decades now. Did you see Washington Diplomats and Montreal Manic fans ditch their teams when they changed to patriotic marketing? Yes, you did, in countless droves – but that didn’t make it right.
4. You don’t live anywhere near an MLS team.
Now we’re into American spectator sports exceptionalism. Unlike nearly every other nation, the major sports in the US are supported by people who may never see them play live, who live in some cases hundreds or thousands of miles away. The idea that fans form solid, heartfelt bonds with teams based on television broadcasts is heresy in Europe, but that’s the way it is here.
In England, every uncivilized backwater has its own team – usually five or twelve. In America, only the very, very grandest of cities, like Carson or East Rutherford, have what you would call a local choice. Uncivilized backwaters like Atlanta and San Diego have to cheer for distant teams. So hundreds of millions of American sports fans make their formative sports loyalties based on who they saw on television, or who had the best uniforms, or who had the most popular players, back when they were eight years old or so.
So what’s the practical difference, then, between living and dying for the Pittsburgh Steelers, and living and dying for Barcelona, when you’re in Honolulu? Really, only a fan can make the call whether his or her loyalty is legitimate.
Still, referring to “we” and “us” from a hemisphere away is sports-talk radio-worthy, and puts you dangerously close to the next category.
5. You formed your loyalties before or away from MLS.
This topic will get a little more heated as we get closer to August 12. But, let’s face it. You can’t really call Mexican club fans and Mexico national team fans “Eurosnobs.” Well, you can. It’s actually funny when you do. That’s why I do it.
But how can you cheer against the team your dad cheered for? How can you cheer against a team that’s part of your identity?
Did Kasey Keller and Brian McBride stop supporting the US when they moved abroad? No, they didn’t. That’s what loyalty is.
However, while it’s understandable and perhaps laudable, to local fans it comes across as 99 44/100ths pure doucheitude. Los Angeles is the Holy City for this kind of fan behavior, and soccer’s just a teeny part of it. Try watching a Kings game when the Red Wings are in town. Or a Dodgers game when the Cubs visit. Or any Angels game. Even the Lakers get Celtics partisans.
And it isn’t even sports. The only reason you can’t swing a dead cat without hitting ten people going “blah blah New York this blah blah New York that” is because of the unreasonable prices they’re charging for dead cats these days. My God – “I can’t get decent pizza, I can’t get a bagel, the public transportation sucks.” Bitch, bitch, bitch. The Mets suck, your pizza is thin and tasteless, and Woody Allen hasn’t made a decent movie in twenty-five years.
I seem to have gone on a tangent. What the hell was this post about again?
Oh, right, Eurosnobs. Next category.
6. Your local MLS team stinks.
That’s different from just “Your local MLS team is the New York Red Bulls.” Okay, the Venn diagram between the two is a pretty large overlap, but it’s not cool to ditch a team because every year they’re abortiotacular. You don’t think there are grand, historic, beloved teams in Europe that have hit a bad patch?
Admittedly, for comedy purposes, “I got tired of watching FC Dallas lose every year, so now I’m a Newcastle fan” is box office gold. But picking a winner that’s safely far away is still picking a winner. In fact, it comes with fewer consequences. In Alabama or New Mexico or wherever, if things go bad you just turn the page or switch the channel. Real Madrid fans in Spain have to deal with the repercussions of Barcelona lording it over them, and vice versa. Manchester United fans in England have to deal with every peak and valley, day in and day out, win or lose, no matter what.
Wait, did I say England? I meant Thailand.
Once you say your loyalty is conditional on results, you stop being a fan and start being a customer.
7. You cheer for a team outside the Premiership, Serie A, or the G-14.
Like the Richter Scale, we’re now around the part of the scale where the smarminess can kill people and damage property. At least when you’re sporting a St. Pauli or Partick Thistle shirt, you can feel good about being outside the machine, and your part in raging against it.
Still, every MLS team is more of a social outsider than every team you can name in Europe, and who on the planet is a bigger underdog than the US national team?
Yes, every MLS team is bankrolled by multimillionaires. Cheering for a soccer team is not the same as cheering for gross domestic product. You may think you’re cool, but you’re still an American soccer fan. A comic book fan who looks down on the X-Men and only reads Neal Gaiman graphic novels is still a comic book fan.
8. You want to watch the highest possible quality of play.
By this logic, if you lived across the street from Ibrox, St. James’ Park, or even La Bombonera, you’d stay home and watch Chelsea on television.
This doesn’t achieve full, 100% family-size, industrial strength douchebaggery because at its core, it’s a seductive complaint. There is a minimum level of quality below which it is unreasonable to ask paying customers to attend. (Amazing how often the Red Bulls come to mind in this conversation. Just saying.) I myself don’t go to UCLA games, and since the Sol came along I don’t go to any WPSL games anymore.
However, I’m still attending actual games. I’m not in some pub putting on a fake accent, pretending they can hear me in Munich.
Unlike for measuring the quality or suckiness of individual teams, rankings and comparisons of different leagues have all the prejudice and rationalization of team support, with none of the benefits. La Liga “fans” need to support both Real Madrid and Barcelona. Premiership “fans” conflate Manchester United, Chelsea and Liverpool. According to Serie A “fans,” Milan and Rome are one big happy family.
This reeking, hideous evil comes from spots being awarded in tournaments according to league and federation play. So, for example, Mexico fans are asked to cheer on the United States for the good of CONCACAF, a request that should rightfully be answered with a hearty “Hi-yo, go ******** yourself.” But it makes no sense in an intercontinental club setting, because MLS doesn’t compete with European leagues. Shunning MLS won’t get your seventh place team in the Europa League, no matter how hard you hate.
This is assuming there’s any merit to the “quality of league” argument to begin with. People say “Premiership,” but they sure as hell don’t mean “Blackburn Rovers” when they say it.
And, as we’ve seen after years of MLS play, and several consecutive World Cup appearances, there is no level of US or MLS quality that will satisfy a Eurosnob. I would say a US World Cup win, per nearly impossible, might do it, but by that time every available seat would be filled with converted mainstream fans. Eurosnobs who judge by quality of league (insert mocking air quotes as you like) will be the last MLS fans, not the next ones.
9. MLS needs to get rid of single entity and the salary cap.
What the hell do you care? You’re watching athletes play soccer, not balance their ********ing checkbooks. What kind of dumbass cheers for a corporate structure? Do you also go to boardrooms and cheer on your favorite vice-presidents in charge of regional marketing?
This line of reasoning was also put forth in such classics as “MLS needs to get rid of the shootout,” “MLS needs to have more traditional team names,” “MLS needs to get rid of the countdown clock” and “MLS needs to have sponsors on the front of the kits.” I’m sure next it will be “MLS needs to play on natural grass” or “MLS needs a single table” or “MLS needs to get rid of playoffs.” These aren’t reasons, these are excuses.
I mean, I guess you can try to convince the schizophrenic that the CIA isn’t really beaming toothpaste commercials into his brain – but isn’t it just easier to find another seat on the bus?
10. MLS fans don’t have the tradition and fan passion they have in Europe.
Oh, okay. So, you’ll just wait around until the rest of us build enough “tradition” and “passion.” When it arrives at a level you feel is sufficient to bless with your presence, then you will come gliding in and take credit.
I got a two-word response to that.
…and the horse you rode in on
11. You think MLS isn’t legitimate without promotion and relegation.
No wonder you’re watching games on television. I’m surprised you’re smart enough to work the remote, let alone find your way to a stadium.
….so, um, yeah. This post was going to be about the attendances for the friendlies in “The Summer of Soccer,” and what it implies for MLS, but it kinda got away from me. I’ll probably get to the Barcelona/Real/Chelsea friendlies in a future post. Or else I’ll save it for my next book, “For ********’s Sake, Eurosnobs! Seriously! I Mean, For ********’s Sake! Christ!“
Sheer gold.
For the record: I grew up in England, supported Sheffield Wednesday since I was a wee nipper, married an American girl from LA, and got attached to Galaxy in 2001 (pre-Beckham) through her uncle, who was a season ticket holder in the first season. I also have also worked for PDL teams since 2006.
The EPL is better than MLS. Arguably, the Championship is better than MLS. MLS is better than PDL. However, I support them all, and actually attend more PDL games than any other.
I am not a Eurosnob
I will gladly say im a true eurosnob.
arsenal f.c. all the way!
MLS is the future of the sport in America (and Canada now too), it is also the single biggest promising asset to our national program; if you want the men’s team to thrive you must want the MLS to thrive too – at some point the two become joined at the hip.
I was born in England…and I am now a third-generation Arsenal fan, but it is support based on tradition; love of family and admiring how sport can be passed down to generations like an heirloom.
Mostly, I root for teams that are connected to where I live, where I work and connected to the land I own. Tying your community and your sense of self to a particular team is half the damn fun. Watching far-away brands on television without these ties, eventually starts to feel like rooting for Coke over Pepsi, and in my experience it creates transient loyalty that constantly finds excuses to shift loyalties as the fate of teams and leagues rise and fall.
If that is not the case, can someone tell me where all the Watford and West Ham fans went that were dime-a-dozen in the 80′s; or why there’s this sudden surge in Chelsea gear in this country?
I was caught by this quote from Thierry Henry last night:
“It was amazing. It really reminded me of a crowd in Europe, they were all cheering the Sounders and rightly so.”
Even Thierry Henry realizes, that it is right to support the team across the street…rather than some front-runner thousands of miles away; and that by doing so, it makes you a more authentic fan.
Look – It’s a plastic yank!
edit: (not west seattle- the other guy)
this is my new favorite word
HEY NOW
I will have to agree. There is no true team really close to pittsburgh except the pittsburgh riverhounds. Yes columbus is somewhat close. but seriously not close at all! i watched the Barca-LA game and and barca seattle and i was amazed with the crowds. even at the world football challenge the crowds were amazing. It shows that soccer in America is coming, but not quite yet. I would like to see those crowds without a team overseas full of international talent having to play to attract the crowds. I have also enjoyed watching the city of Seattle take in the Sounders and how quickly they have become the soon to be “soccer capitol of the USA.” I love the Sounders and support them. Part of it has to deal with Freddie Ljungberg (ex Arsenal) coming and playing for them. Montero is amazing and Zakuani looked great against Barca. I will support Seattle as my favorite MLS team and Arsenal as my favorite team without a doubt. I do support the U.S. National Team I just do not always agree with their decisions on player choice. (Freddie Adu should be playing) however my love for Arsenal still makes me a “eurosnob” which I think is bullshit to be called that. I have gone to Arsenal games and supported them forever. So you come out and call me a eurosnob because I support a team who plays some of the best soccer in the world whatever! I love the Sounders and the US National Team. But i will remain a Eurosnob.
You could have saved a lot of words by simply typing “Someone please like the MLS… Please?”
I think that was the best blog entry I have ever read on BS.
Keep ‘em coming.
I’m a proud fan of European teams St. Pauli, Nottingham Forest, Atletico Madrid, ADO Den Haag — all of which aren’t worth shite compared to my love for my hometown VANCOUVER WHITECAPS!
White is the colour!
doucheitude
abortiotacular
Two words that I have now added to my vocabulary.
Even without those words great post.
By the way, I became an MLS & Crew fan when the Crew’s Abortiotacular Quotient was very high. It makes being a Crew fan the last two years even more sweet. I guess that means I’m not a Eurosnob?
When I think of an equivalent of Eurosnobbery in another sport, I imagine a high school kid in Texas who says he’s a football fan (gridiron, that is) but who isn’t interested in following his high school’s team. He’s only interested in the Dallas Cowboys.
Am I saying by this analogy that MLS is to the EPL as high school football is to the NFL? Maybe. There’s nothing wrong with that. Texas high school football can be very exciting, as can MLS.
A confession, however: I once wore an orange shirt to a Holland game in Washington. Was I just like all those Americans who’ve been worshipping at the Church of Chelsea or the Church of Barcelona this summer?
Great Post. We disagree on Cohen, but very nice here. Will be nice to look back on this when MLS teams have band wagon fans (you can hope). Perhaps you should start a camapaign to get Winalda booted and cover MLS properly on FFF.
At the risk of offending 80% of the BS posters….
What about people who were born and raised in the US who use the terms “pitch, match, and nil” when they mean “field, game, and nothing/zero?”
I suppose these people are not necessarily guilty of the crime itself, but they are probably accessories to eurosnobbery.
hm…quakes since 96, betis since 04..
I wonder whether the heavy use of those terms contributes to holding back the rate at which American non-fans become interested in the sport, by helping to further the idea that soccer is something mysterious and difficult to understand.
So long as the person does not out weigh saying Field game and Zip with those you’re fine.
if not then you’re just some FFF douche who calls in to call Cohen his mate.
fantastic stuff
Magnifico, Dan, you nailed it. I call eurosnobbery the Busch Gardens soccer experience: just like Europe without the annoying tiny apartments, expensive “petrol”, and high taxes.
And despite their fans’ tiresome sense of self-importance, it was good to see more Seattle puke green in Quest than red and blue.
Your reason #4 is something Europeans just don’t understand and is also the biggest reason why promotion/relegation won’t work in the US.
Ok so I guess I’m a three, only I try to balance that out by not supporting any team, anywhere. I just follow leagues and pick a team I want to win on the day, to keep things interesting.
By the by, I took a friend who got into soccer at college recently to the USA Panama game. He wore a Holland shirt, I almost threw my beer at him.
I grew up in Poland and gramps took me to Legia Warsaw games when I was literally too little to remember. The attachment I have with my childhood club is deep. That being said, I absolutely love having supported Chicago Fire from the day it was founded. I love that there is no money in the sport here. I love that I’ve followed my team to cup games in stadiums with no stands. I seriously don’t understand how someone who grew up loving the game could resist following their local team if they have one. MLS is awesome!
As a Rovers fan, bite me Galaxy-boy.
(Of course, I partially fall under #7 as a follow a Scottish 1st Division club, but I’m a Rapids fan first and foremost)
“Soccer” fans in this country are known as pompous pricks. You’re perpetuating the stereotype with your little rant here. Poorly written. Won’t convert anyone and yet doesn’t serve as good entertainment either.
F@*K Arsenal!
I liked Manchester United since I was 11 yrs old or so. Before one says I’m glory hunter or w/e I’m not. I didnt even know Beckham played on United at the time. My favorite player has always been Paul Scholes on United. I dont really remember why I started supported them, just always loved their style of play. Im not one of those ppl who will “jump ship” for Madrid, as i am NOT a ronaldo fan boy. And if a United fan tells you he was the best player ever at the club THEY ARE IDIOTS and not real fans. I hope to someday see a game at Old Trafford I really do.
But with this all being said my Columbus Crew and my national team come first. I remember going to games before the stadium opened and I was there when the first game was played there. It was one of the greatest moments of my life even though I was still fairly young. Remember watching McBride and Cunningham and coming so close to a title in those years.
I do not think there is anything wrong about supporting a team in Europe, but let’s hope you have a valid reason for supporting them rather than them being just a great team.
I support the national team but have no interest in the MLS. I feel the league is too corporate and fake and just don’t care about it. I wish more players would play in college, then go to Europe, or just go abroad immediately. Get over it.
Eurosnob is the dumbest term on this site, mainly because the people who use it are huge hypocrites. Go to the MLS forum and look at one of the threads about USL and the people who try to block out MLS getting embarrassed in the Concocaf Champions League (even though excuses don’t exist anymore, since it’s not preseason, teams had their best guys out there, and you can’t cry about depth and money when you’re being compared to the USL)
My other “favorite” threads are when an MLS side looks decent against a European preseason team in a friendly. Then you’ll really see idiots thumping their chests and acting far worse than any European fan ever does
Eurosnob is a weak term because many of the people who use it are MLS snobs, which is sad considering it’s MLS. Do something in your region’s most important tournament before talking
Dan, as always I enjoy your blog, well done.
Someone commented that soccer is coming, or that it”s growing, I can’t disagree more. Soccer is here in the USA, and it’s huge. MLS maybe not so much, which I think is the point of this post. I hear people talking about soccer breaking into the big 4 sports. It already has. I’d say it’s easily a top 3 sport. But it’s support is rationed across the globe. Americans LOVE soccer and our MLS is growing. The statistic I/d like to see is the total number of people who attend or watch professional soccer in this country. That means any league and for TV it could be from anywhere, any league and then lets compare it to baseball.
You just said “the MLS”, which waives any rights you have to be taken seriously.
That doesn’t make me an MLSsnob, it does mean I’m not ignorant and understand fundamental grammar.
No no no, it’s much worse than that. A Eurosnob is a father who tells his 9-year-old son, “Sorry Johnny, I’d love to come see you play Saturday morning, but the quality of play is much better in the league on the other side of town. You understand right? Your team kinda sucks. I’ll pick you up after the game.”
Eurosnob is the perfect term. It has nothing to do with being partisan for your favorite team, and everything to do with how you choose a team.
Some people look at the standings, hype and marketing; and some root for home, family, love and tradition.
It’s about caring about the sport, more than your image. It’s about actually be passionate about soccer.
Eurosnobs, are by and large; people who absorb the sport exclusively by mass-media and prestige. They are aloof and elitist. They worship a brand, and then confuse this with kinship.
I think it is the perfect term.
As I posted before, even Thierry Henry agrees, the proper thing to do is to root for home second; and some soulless brand you have no genuine connection to, second.
My first exposure was as a high school kid on Long Island to the late great Cosmos in the 70′s; became an USMNT fanatic with the 1990 WC; and finally went to a Galaxy game with the opening of the HDC in Carson (was there for opening day) and have supported LAG ever since…
Like many Galaxy fans think Beckie is a poser and is only out for #1…(on another note-his wife is going to be a judge on American Idol and as a result this makes it more likely that Beckie goes on loan after the MLS season, plays for England, and retires from England after the 2010 WC and finishes out his career with LAG…
MLS and the USMNT may not be the best, but it’s ours….
And European soccer isn’t corporate and fake? You’ve always struck me as a pretty sane guy, so please don’t tell me that you still believe the quaint myth about how the clubs really represent their fans. That idea died with the horse and buggy.
I guess I just don’t understand the issue here. Don’t get me wrong, Americans who don’t support the U.S. national team and are not first or second generation immigrants are the worst kind of fans. Meeting American soccer fans in England shirts at bars makes me want to commit homicide. I’m a U.S. national team supporter first and foremost, without a doubt.
But what about someone who spent their formative soccer years in Phoenix, where there aren’t any teams of decent professional caliber? Am I a douchebag for supporting Arsenal because the season I discovered them they were wearing the redcurrant Highbury comemorative shirt that had the same colors as Arizona State, which I was attending at the time.
I hesitantly supported the Galaxy after Beckham came, but have since mostly lost interest in that for obvious reasons, though I do like Landon and Buddle and want them to do well mostly for MLS’s sake.
I’ve since moved to Dayton, but don’t have the money or time as a student to drive into Columbus to support the Crew personally, so does that make me a douchebag for still supporting Arsenal and Celtic (I’m Catholic) primarily? I don’t think it should.
I don’t understand why the argument that MLS deserves not much more than my passing attention is an invalid one. I wholeheartedly believe that the best thing for soccer in the U.S. is for the U.S. to do well in a World Cup (like reach the semis), and the best thing for that is for American players to be playing in the Premier League and La Liga and Serie A, not MLS.
What’s wrong with that?
Games have their own terminology. Is it “snobish” to correct someone who refers to runs in baseball as “points” or goals in hockey or soccer as “points” (especially since “points” has a very different meaning in these sports related to standings)?
Why is a game of tennis referred to as a “match?” I don’t know, but that is the accepted parlance of the sport, so who the hell are you to differ?
To me this is the most useless form of anti-eurosnob argumentation, which focuses on putting down people who legitimately share common interests with you in order to make yourself feel more “authentic,” which (not uncoincidentally) is exactly the thing you’re accusing “eurosnobs” of doing. Pot, meet kettle.
Tell that to people who say “CIA” or “EPA” rather than “the CIA” or “the EPA” (look it up, you’ll see these variations used quite extensively within each respective field). Technically you’re right, but I’m guessing you don’t say “the NATO” or “the NAFTA” or for that matter “the UEFA” or “the FIFA” either. Phrasiologies regarding abbreviations just sort of develop over time, and don’t necessarily follow the same rules as the term would in its un-abbreviated form.
See my above point. You’re just a hypocrite.
I’ll add my 2 cents here. I’m a new fan to soccer overall, I’ve supported the national team since 2002 but only recently fell in love with the whole game and I have to thank FC Barcelona (y si lo puedo decirlo en español) and Messi for that… I saw them play early this year on TV and was amazed, I really didn’t know anything about their club or their standing, it was the way they played that drew me. After that seeing the guys in the Confederations Cup sealed the deal and I knew that Soccer/Football would be a new passion for me.
Does this make me a Eurosnob? I couldn’t care less, I will support Barca forever win or lose.
As for MLS I’m a fan of the Red Bulls mostly because I was born in NY and I support all the teams (except in American Football, I’m a Cowboys fan) and I’ve supported the Knicks, Rangers and now the Red Bulls even if the completely suck, my loyalty is to my city and then to my island and the PR Islanders.
On the subject of attending games I cant (besides the Islanders), since I’m a college student w/out any money and I can’t travel and see games in person, does this make me a fake fan? No. If I could I would but the reality is that a lot of people in this world can barely support themselves let alone go to games.
People need to stop hating on others to seem cool, honestly this is a non issue for 99% of the world, people should just go and enjoy the sport they love and forget about the posers and the fake fans, thats their problem not yours.
Sorry, I got lost somewhere in the self-aggrandizing diatribe horseshit about what a “real” fan you are. What are the rules again?
To me this is the most useless form of anti-eurosnob argumentation, which focuses on putting down people who legitimately share common interests with you in order to make yourself feel more “authentic,” which (not uncoincidentally) is exactly the thing you’re accusing “eurosnobs” of doing. Pot, meet kettle.
But the fact remains: those who have a genuine tie to their team through community, location and culture are more authentic. Again, even players like Henry say so, not that his opinion matters when the fact is obvious to anyone who loves a particular sport. Those who love a sport, support it…and those who “sorta” like it, put on jerseys and buttons to decorate their ego.
And much more importantly, those local fans fund the sport at a much more systemic level than any pimply nerd with his shiny EPL shirt purchased from the internet.
It’s not about hate, it is about giving a nod to fans who pull out their wallets and support the sport. Fans that are then given grief by posers from in Liverpool jerseys, despite the fact the local fans pulls most of the weight for the sport in this region.
While I found the article very funny and most of the points true, I believe I would be considered a Eurosnob based on this and I don’t think I agree. I was born in the US to parents who don’t care much for sports although my dad will watch anything on TV. I root for the Israeli National Team above all else because I grew up there and that’s where my family is from. I also was born into a family that loves Liverpool (both siblings, who grew up in the 70s and 80s, handed down shirts to me as a youngster).
My second teams are the Spanish national team (vacationed in Madrid plus I love all the Spaniards on Liverpool) and my Israeli team, Maccabi Tel Aviv (though I root for all Israeli teams to do well in European competitions).
I just don’t like MLS because I already have so many allegiances, not as much because of the product or anything like that (although living near Red Bull NY doesn’t help). This summer I’ve fallen in love with Sky Blue FC of WPS though. So in the end, I’m not sure what the point I was trying to make was but I don’t consider myself a Eurosnob either way
I use the “friendly match” rule
Dan,
Great as usual. Sometimes i find myself sliding into the quick sand that is eurosnob. I have followed MLS since 2000, but instead of following a single team I keep up with the entire league. I love the tradition of DC, was born in Houston, and followed Dallas and attended games when living in OK. Since KCooper left i am done w/em.
Ah, the Cotton Bowl. Now i am impressed with Seattle.
Anyway. I keep up with the big Euro clubs just the same, i hate them all but have “respect” for ManU and Barca.
But I love the underdogs…Bilboa is my favorite Euro team, the idea of a Basque only team, Fulhamerica my EPL team.
Rangers; due to my protestant scotch heritage, Liga de Quito from living there and my wife es de Quito. Ajax cause its f-ing amsterdam.
My point is that a US national team fan can feel mixed with many differnt teams, but that doesn’t make me a Eurosnob just cause i don’t drive 80 mile for MLS games and play MLS fantasy league.
The worst Eurosnobs are the Arab or African dudes that work in my co.’s offices overseas and cheer for Chelsea, R. Madrid, or AC Milan as if they were season ticket holders, and give me crap when they beat my team.
I support my local club team(s). One is a U15 boys team and the other is U14 girls. We travel all over the US playing regional tournaments. My kids are Eurosnobs. Most of the kids on our teams are Eurosnobs. They, like myself and the other coaches actually grew up playing soccer, admiring the skill and tactical awareness that you see in….European soccer. Gee, go figure.
According to you, we’re something less than what you are, “a real fan.” And who exactly are you again?
Someday maybe the actual “Eurosnob” players will aspire to sit in front of a computer screen and berate other fans of the game, but I doubt it. When you actually live this game on the “pitch” ranting and raving from the stands about who’s a real fan seems overly trite.
Soccer in America has a long way to go. People with your attitude turn people off of soccer. If you want to be a fan for the sake of being a fan, then have at it, but don’t think you’re doing any favors for American soccer.
Absolute garbage of an article.
Wait, my parents aren’t even from this country so why should I care what you think.
When I moved to Arizona from Cleveland, I didn’t stop rooting for Ohio State and all the Cleveland teams. Does that make me a “snob” because I moved to a different place? What if I had kids and raised them to root for Ohio State and the Browns regardless of where we lived? Would that make them “snobs.”
If you’re the parents of immigrants or have another legitimate connection to the sport, but appreciate it organically and from an honest place, who cares what team you support?
I think that as long as you love the game and want it to be as big and as successful in the U.S. as we all do, and you’re not doing it because soccer is the new poker, there is plenty of room in the tent for us all.
I also refuse to grant the premise of your final point. Soccer grows in this country through TV viewership. The more TV viewership there is, the more money there is in advertising, and the more attention ESPN et al. will give the sport. That is the biggest hurdle in the development of top soccer players in this country. There’s no money in the game here, lessening the incentive to play the game at the highest levels (in addition to the social stigma soccer still carries in many communities around the country). Both of these are aleviated by increased attention to the sport from ESPN et al.
Just look at the difference it has done for NASCAR. 10 years ago NASCAR didn’t get any play on SportsCenter. Everyone dismissed the sport as a regional backwater phenomenon. Once ESPN saw potential in the sport, they conveyed legitimacy on the sport, and interest and respect for the sport grew exponentially. People in North Carolina going to races (no matter the numbers) wasn’t going to do that, because it hadn’t done it already. What you needed was people in California willing to see what all the fuss was about by watching it on TV.
By dismissing the Premier League and the UEFA Champions League and the Euros as competitors to MLS, you miss the point that these and only these competitions have mainstream crossover potential because they are the sport played at the highest level.
I’m sorry, but the Cleveland City Stars and the New York Red Bulls just don’t have that same potential, and refusing to acknowledge that fact doesn’t change it.
Like it or not, but “eurosnobs” have a role to play in growing the game in the U.S. too. There is enough soccer out there for us all, and acting like you have to support either MLS or European soccer is a false choice, and a dynamic that only hurts the development of the game in the U.S.
I take a harsher view.
Unless they commit 100%, and say things like “lift” and “lorry” when they mean “elevator” and “truck”, they are assuming idiotic affectations.
I apply this to the “soccer” / “football” debate as well. If you’re an American, it’s “Soccer”. Nobody dares tell Totti and Gattuso that the game isn’t called “Calcio”.
If you are an American and say “football” and disparage those who say “soccer”, you are no better than weird high school drama kids who suddenly speak with an English accent at all times after performing “Oliver Twist” their sophomore year.
Well, let me tell you guys a little story:
Once upon a time I fell in love with this game of ours at just about the first chance I really had to: the 1994 WC. In 1996 I went to two games of our “local MLS team” (and when I say “local” I mean the team who’s stadium was located 100 miles from my house) and enjoyed it, and from then on out attended about 5+ matches a year and had a jersey and everything and watched many of the team’s other matches on TV (those which were televised, anyhow) until they were moved to Texas.
Around the same time, I began frequenting the local soccer bar across the street from the art school I attended at the time to watch the Monday night EPL match of the week and met a bunch of Arsenal fans (English ex-patriot bankers, mostly) and feel in love with the Premiership game and with Arsenal in particular.
Then a few years later my team got moved to Houston, and I moved for a couple of years to Europe for work. When I got back to the States I made a move to another MLS market, one of which is included in that list of perpetually-mismanaged franchises that Dan’s generously given us the right to turn our noses at, and they were always one of my hated teams anyhow. I’m not suddenly about to become a RedBull fan.
What happened during this time? My Earthquakes partisanship gradually morphed into a US National Team partisanship. It’s hard to say at what time it happened, but now my real and greatest rooting interest in the sport became the US National team, and that’s how it stands today. Of course I’d supported them right from the beginning, but they went from “our national team which I of course supported” to “my team,” period.
As such, a guy who is having success in a European topflight is worth much more to me than a player having success in MLS (with The Landon Donovan Exception which can have an entire book devoted to it). I watch our Yanks Abroad and follow their teams as much as I do “my” (nominal) San Jose Earthquakes who’s market I don’t live in anymore and are now sadly an expansion franchise without a stadium, and I’m not particularly amused by this current iteration of what was “my” team. And I follow MLS in general, with little rooting interest except for players that I think have particular Nats potential, plus general interest for/against the league’s heroes/villains in general.
And I follow Arsenal. As I have since the mid 90s, which was part of me getting into this sport in general.
And though I rarely say them to an American, I prefer the English terms “pitch,” “touchline,” “nil,” etc. Why? Because they’re footballing terms. But when I’m talking to an American, yeah, I use the word “soccer,” though it bugs me. Why? Because they’re, ahem, soccer terms. I won’t insist on them, and I think that those who’d turn their nose at my preference and label me as a Eurosnob because of it are Cro-Mags. And I like the fact that there’s a whole separate terminology for this game from gridiron football, a game (and indeed a fan culture) I’d played in high school but no longer support and become increasingly disenfranchised from as an adult.
If for some odd reason the English were to now became interested in baseball and begin referring to Pedro Martinez or Tim Lincecum as “bowlers,” that would get a bit of a scoff from me. Sorry…
That was brilliant. Great read.
It might from me too….unless the English had their own professional baseball league, and that’s what the English players and fans decided to call those positions….
“Because that’s what most people call it” is a synchophantic approach to the game. It’s okay that the American game is slightly different than the English one. It’s even okay that the American league isn’t as skilled as many others in the world.
Balompié, Ludopédio, Calcio, Soccer, Football….
I hate eurosnobs.
Most of them are still trying to work out how the US beat Spain in South Africa. I heard the Yankees and Lakers are looking for more fans also!
Oh gimme a break…
“Sycophantic” would be a term for people who think that what we need is a Euro manager, ANY Euro manager to manage our national team. Like the legions who thought that Ruud Gullit’s sexy football was the way to go for us. That IS sycophantic, and laughable.
I’m a card-carrying Eurosnob—–but not in a category listed in the blog.
I believe everything about the leagues in England, Spain, Italy, etc. is better than MLS. It’s a higher level of play. More fun to watch. A better place to develop young talent, so I advocate all of our young players to move over there ASAP. I could go on and on……(Have lived in Germany….I know of what I speak)
On the other hand, I’ve supported DC from the beginning……from living in Northern Virginia. I’ve sinced moved to Dallas, and go to as many FCD games as possible…….just to support the league. I understand what I’m watching is by-and-large crap……..but it’s my crap, dammit!!
So what does that make me? A Eurosnob with a conscience?
US/MLS vs other leagues support got really difficult during the all star game. I wanted the MLS team to beat Everton, but I didn’t want players from other city’s MLS teams to score against Howard.
Well, then we’re agreed and you just don’t realize it.
I promise you there isn’t a single person who calls the game “Soccer” that is demanding a Euro manager……
(To the Eurosnobs out there: You might be horrified to learn that from what I’ve seen of the German 2nd division….many MLS teams would do just fine there)
What #11 implies is that a good percentage of USL fans are actually…Eurosnobs in disguise!
*X-Files theme*
best blog i’ve read in quite some time….eurosnobs drive me absolutely f***in’ insane…it’s not so much the ones that support Arsenal,Chelsea,Barca,etc…It’s the ones that support a different National team when they’re American-born and have American parents…just because they’re great great great grandpa was born in Genoa or some crap like that…I say it’s completely ok to support a team from the EPL or Bundesliga or La Liga or what have you..but if you are near an MLS city…support the team..because without that support..the league will never grow and you’ll be left supporting a team that more than likely you’ll never see at their home stadium without paying an arm and a leg for the plane ticket…I agree that the U.S National Team and MLS are inherently linked…I cheer for Fulham in the EPL because i loved McBride and I live and go to school in Auburn, AL, where there is obviously no MLS team for 10 hours, so I choose to support the league in general with a slight Chicago bias now, given Mcbride’s presence..I want to see the league grow into a reputable one..without support..that’s impossible
Spot on, mate!
The way i see it if you’re a Eurosnob you don’t want soccer to succeed in the US, it’s as simple as that.
These people would be perfectly happy if MLS folded tomorrow, but the league and those of us who support it will have the last laugh, so ******** them all.
I must say that I have been coming on to Big Soccer reading various blogs and posts for about 3 years, and never once have I commented. I want to thank you for saying what I have been thinking for a long time, in a way I think we can all appreciate. It was said well enough for me to actually register an account on Big Soccer, and you sir have popped my commenting cherry. Now I will likely become a comment slut.
You’re mistaken.
A Eurosnob doesn’t care one way or the other if MLS is successful or fails miserably. It doesn’t matter one way or the other. If MLS is successful, it will still pale in comparison to their league, their club, their “football culture.”
You can have the last laugh if you want, but they won’t be paying attention to you. You’ll look like one of those crazy people at the supermarket laughing at the watermelons.
anyone else find it odd that a soccer fan refers to anyone else as a eurosnob?
really, now… “soccer fan” = “eurosnob”. (an mls fan is just “eurosnob lite”.)
yours proudly,
eurosnob
I don’t think you’re a Eurosnob at all, at least not according to my definition of the term. To me, a Eurosnob is an American who is devoted to European soccer and who turns his nose up at MLS and the rest of American soccer, refusing to take any interest in it. You do take interest in MLS. The fact that you recognize the deficiencies of MLS (which you enjoy anyway) makes you a realist, not a Eurosnob.
If people like this would just put their address in the profile, it would make it a lot easier to send the INS around to investigate their immigration “status”. And I’m sure the FBI would like to know that they keep nude pictures of Ethel Rosenberg in their sock drawer and that their kids cross thier fingers when they recite the Pledge of Allegiance.
There is a very real category of fan on this website that’s the opposite of a Eurosnob.
An “Ameri-snob.” The definition of this type of fan is just now coming into focus.
These are the people who’ve drunk so much of the MLS/US soccer Kool-Aid that they truly believe that the sport in this country is the pinnacle. The majority of these people don’t watch foreign leagues, don’t pay attention to youth development abroad, don’t know the players, coaches, or fan-groups in the rest of the world (i.e. a very young groups)……………..and then spout off about the greatness of the Kansas City Wizards.
These are the type of people who don’t know who Sergio Aguero is, but tell you that Freddy Adu is World Class! How dare European clubs hold back this Michel Platini 2.0 from his rightful place alongside Zidane in the pantheon of greatness. It’s difficult to tell these people that there’s a young player better than Adu at virtually every club in Europe……because they don’t bother watching those clubs and doing the research. All they know is he made a bunch of Polish 18 year olds look foolish in 2007.
I have no clue about EPL or La Liga or Serie A. I do not know any of their history and just a few players. I do know I like watching soccer and I live in Houston so I am a Dynamo fan. Before that I was an Islander fan because I am Puerto Rican. I follow the Nats unless the play PR (they have never play each other) I tried following Real Madrid for a while but it did not feel right. It was like being a Sixers fan from NJ. I guess I am an Ameri-snob.
i always hesitate to comment about mls because i don’t watch much of it. last time was maybe 2 years ago. went to a revs game. was not overly impressed. could not believe the ball-handling (awful). i mean, there was so little possession that it looked like kickball. don’t know what accounts for it. too bouncy on the turf field? poor coaching/ tactics/ training? poor player selection (athletes vs. skilled/smart players)? (or mls teams choose one or two goldenboys and the rest of the team remains mostly anonymous, resulting in selfish/ ineffective soccer?) well, whatever. i suppose i could give mls another chance.
lately, i’ve been watching some wps games. it’s actually pretty good. i hope that league takes off.
sal, if you weren’t such a commie pinko, football, baseball, basketball and nascar would be good enough for you. but nuuuu, you’re a “soccer fan”. that means you’re probably as big a eurosnob as i am. j/k
Canada. Just sayin’ I suffer more than you do Don.
Nice post.
Am I the only who feels really bad about realizing Dan misspelled Neil Gaiman’s name?
This article made me chuckle. I started to imagine a Greek Basketball League fanatic writing a similar screed about all those NBA Fans over there.
As a Dutchman wholly uninterested in the MLS but fanatical about the US Nats I really don’t give a flying eff about what other people watch, say, or do in regards to soccer. All I care about is that football reaches the highest level possible in the US. To think that will occur through a system that doesn’t encourage youth development by club teams is to say the least “interesting”.
Funny, sad, but true. They’re kin to the same eurosnobs they loathe. Just like a eurosnob believes that the Norwegian League is superior.
I honestly feel like I might print out this article, go to the frame store and get this framed with the expensive “museum glass”, and put it up in my office.
Does me being happy about Giuseppe Rossi playing for the azzurri make me a eurosnob?
Yes it does. According to many he should’ve played for the US and by not doing so he took the “easy” way out by playing for the Azzurri.
Funny you should bring up Rossi, as I look at he and Jozy and see precisely where the US youth system fails. Imvho Jozy and Rossi have similar world class potential and talent but you can’t really say that Jozy’s realized his while it’s obvious and irrefutable that Rossi’s realized his. Now why is that?
It has to be the coaching. The US raw material isn’t handled with the same care, diligence and expertise as that of other nations and imvho that’s the crux of the matter. The US youth setup is a fail.
And to think that it will achieve those heights by most waiting until it does things the “perfect” way without someone there to do the hard work of actually supporting the top flight league before is just as “interesting”.
For commenters so far: Yeah, if you’re supporting MLS or the Nats, like, at all, you’re not a Eurosnob. If you’ve got a legitimate connection to the Old Country, you’re a Euro, not a Eurosnob.
And crap, I even said to myself “Did I spell Gaiman’s name right? I should check,” but forgot.
But I did want to address this post. Let me quote.
Hi Jack. Hi Zoe. Good move sharing a screen name. Really money-saver.
Let’s say this was about how the Cubs should move to Davenport to be closer to their fan base, or how historically ironic it is for someone in Alabama to be a Yankees fan. And let’s say you responded with “As a parent of two Little Leaguers….”
Except you wouldn’t. You’d have gathered this was about an entirely different issue than youth participation. You’d realize you’re out of your element, Donny.
But because this is soccer, parents feel they are somehow part of the discussion. This is a serious, ongoing flaw in how we approach the sport in this country.
This is what happens when we don’t have a league for twenty years, and we get all this propaganda about how youth participation meant that soccer was the sport of the future. So now we have the tail wagging the dog. Hell, we have the flea on the tail wagging the dog two yards over.
I don’t even know whether to put you on the scale as a zero or a twelve. I mean, is your children learning? What am I supposed to say – no, you should learn shooting from Alan Gordon, positioning from Khano Smith, and fan relations from Dane Richards.
On the other hand, your kids are a life choice or two away from having you post on BigScienceFair.com or BigChess.com or BigSlingingRockOnTheCorner.com. This is a post about soccer fans, and you ain’t. You’re your kids fans, and while that’s awesome, I’m not gonna be a fan of your kids until someone writes them a check to play the game.
Or until they grow up and run for office, or something. I don’t know. Look, I’m sure your kids are fantastic. But you’re not “living the sport” – you’re being a parent. An infinitely more admirable pursuit, sure, but, in the words of Gabriel Garcia Marquez, not my ********ing problem.
Wait, wait, wait, wait … Freddy Adu has cats?
I thought this line was classic:
And I would’ve been all over BigChess.com back in high school. Maybe we can get Jennifer Shahade to do soccer commentary.
Great blog Dan.
I’m a fan of the Galaxy pre Beckham and fan of the sport.My allegiance to local clubs here in L.A. go back to the Aztecs.
I’ll watch some EPL/Liga/Bundesliga games and first loved the game when I saw matches of the 1978 World Cup on TV.
I have a problem when people don’t want the game to develop here in the U.S.Or don’t care about it developing for that matter.
Whether it’s MLS or US national team games if you were born here etc.
To respond to developing of players, it is important to recognize that the very people who are investing in the sport, are generally a small minority.
Hopefully they realize real soon that they could make a lot more money if the best players transfer to Europe while the rest can stay here and make the league get better.
Right now some mediocre players go to Europe to make a little more money.
I fully support MLS/US national team and hope that others who live here and love soccer do so too.
What if you support Villa because you like their colors?
Dan, you’re down like four flat tires.
Become a Rapids fan
oh no am i a mls snob live in the uk watching mls on demand on mls net.com /sights oh no help.
SJ Earthquakes for me (born and raised in NorCal).
Then, in my formative years, the only soccer on TV here was “Soccer Made in Germany”. Back then it was Bayern and Rummenigge. But the brass at Bayern are such douchebags, and Bayern is always “FC Hollywood”, and I hate being a front runner follower. So, I kinda like them (for entertainment – and I love the city of Munich), but I have no more real loyaty.
But, my wife and I have friends that live in Dortmund. I also liked Manfred Burgsmuller (of BVB) back in the day. I also love the Westfallenstadion, and the BVB fans. My wife calls them “the Bumblebees” (’cause of the kits, obviously). So, for Bundesliga, it’s BVB for me.
I have no real loyalties to any team in the EPL. I kind of like Newcastle, ’cause it looks like a nice city, a nice stadium and has very loyal fans. I kind of like Everton because that’s Sir Paul’s team (grew up a Beatles fan). And I always like an EPL team with a Yank that makes regular positive contributions (like Everton, Aston Villa, Fullham, etc). But again, no strong loyalties.
And finally, I just became a fiercely loyal, die hard FC Barcelona fan, going against my disgust for jumping on front runner bandwagons.
The reasons are two-fold (and simple):
1. Some friends of ours just went to Barcelona for vacation back in May. My wife and I we’re talking about how that would be a nice vacation for us someday, and she asked me if Barcelona had a soccer team (silly question), and I said “oh yeah, one of the best in the world”. So she conspired, in secret, with our friends to get me a FC Barca shirt for my Father’s Day present.
That was a very thoughtful present. It pretty much forces me to like FC Barcelona.
2. Style of play (ball control, attacking, quick passing, high skill, lot’s of creativity, good defensive organization, total football), and the fact that many of their stars are products of Barca’s youth system – Messi, Xavi, and Iniesta, really the heart and soul of Barca, are all products of the Barca youth system. I like that. I don’t like teams that pretty much rely on buying big stars, or having sugar daddy billionaires bankrolling them.
Maybe Barca makes me a kind of Eurosnob or front runner bandwagon follower. But I was given good reason to get attached to them.
Go Quakes!
Alright, I am from Honduras but have been an American citizen since 2004 in miami…..I support US and Honduras equally in NTs. My Granpa is from Barcelona, so that has been passed down for me and I am 3rd generation Barca fan….Now I have only been to 1 miami Fc game, But i dont miss one motagua game from Honduras which is my hometown team. Am I a eurosnob?
It’s actually kind of crazy how much this story mimics mine. Arsenal is my primary club team, though they’ve never won a trophy while I’ve supported them (since 2005-06) so I can’t be called a glory chaser. The U.S. national team is now my primary rooting interest. It’s partly because it feels much more like a “movement” if that makes sense, and it’s party because the U.S. national team was the only way I could feel patriotic, it seemed, without supporting the Bush administration. I can’t deny that if Arsenal was playing Hull City or Fulham I’d be rooting for Arsenal to win, but I’d want Jozy or Clint to score a hat trick in the process. MLS doesn’t really factor as more than a blip on my radar because when I started to follow soccer seriously I didn’t live anywhere near an MLS market. Sorry but that’s just the facts of life, and I know I’m not alone in sharing those circumstances.
Well said Loney. You’re starting to get good at this. This was a very interesting read for me because I guess I grew up as a traditional sports fan. Grew up in Iowa City, IA. Both my parents graduated from and now work for the University of Iowa. I have been a Hawkeye fan for as long as I can remember. My grandfather and all my uncles are Minnesota Vikings fans, thus I became one too. Iowa City is only 3 hours away from Chicago. When MLS first started in 1996 I went to Kansas City once to see a match, but didn’t really see the Wizards as “my team”. When Chicago got a team I was able to see many live matches in person. Chicago got me hooked on MLS. Now that I live in Mexico I’ve fallen in love with Mexican soccer. My favorite Mexican team is Club America, who I go see almost every time they come to Monterrey. I even go watch my local 3rd division team the Matamoros Huracanes from time to time.
You are all MLS-snobs
I personally hate the term “Eurosnob,” but to me, the people who turn up their noses at their local teams while being a devoted follower of some team halfway around the world are no different than guys who chronically masturbate to porn while never themselves experiencing the touch of a woman.
If you’re not out at the stadium, you’re basically just a reality TV viewer.
Tienes razon El Jefe.
Hi, my name is Kevin and I am a Eurosnob.
I live ~55 minute drive from DC United in good traffic so I am bordering on living in the wilderness. I like DC United and go to a few games but I cannot consider myself a supporter. DC United does have a very good atmosphere. When the Galaxy came to DC with Beckham, everyone I saw stood and cheered the entire match (and the various supporter groups do this at every single game!). I have tried to ‘get into’ MLS, especially when the games are shown on HD channels. But my interest has failed to grow. Something is missing. Promotion/relegation is not essential, but I think it would definitely add more drama and excitement to the league.
I use match/game, nil/zero, field/pitch interchangeably. I have cut back on ‘nil’ recently because of how much other people detest it eventhough I think it is a fine word and very descriptive.
Everton FC chose me as a fan in mid-August 2003 and there is nothing I can do to change that.
TTFN
Kwp
Eurosnob describes uppity people who are into incredibly bad music and fashion in order to make themselves feel elite or superior to others. I’m not sure what all this rambling was about other than to make one group of soccer fans out to be elite and superior to another. How very ironic.
Where do f*cksticks who supported Mexico over the U.S. in a certain world cup matchup 7 years ago, citing “political” reasons, rank?
what if your local team is the earthquakes?
i still and went and saw a couple games tho…is it ok to switch to liking the sounders since they are another northwest team?….plus i own an xbox lol
Nobody who is a fan of MLS says “the MLS.” Everybody who does generally doesn’t give a shit about the league on principle and/or doesn’t know a damn thing about it. I don’t particularly care what’s grammatically correct, but it’s just a fact that it’s easy to identify where a person is actually coming from in this case by the terminology they use, and I see it in action on this site and elsewhere on the internets all the time.
It’s like if you go out to the sticks and call those tricky little wild dogs “kai-yo-tees.” Every country bumpkin worth his salt will know you for a goddamn liberal lefty city slicker. Because real people know they’re called “kai-yoats.” Just as it is MLS, no “the.” By their words ye shall know them….
Sorry, but I’m Columbus til I die. Villa’s my winter team. And the thought of cheering for LaBrocca, Casey, Ballouchi & co. just made me throw up in my mouth a little.
No, it makes you a petro dollar Eurosnob
But in all seriousness, this is a argument that will never be solved. I am happy for the MLS and hope it succeeds and adds more Canadian teams, Montreal and Vancouver hopefully.
I do find it hard to watch MLS though. I have Setanta and GolTV and can see so many EPL, La Liga and Bundesliga games that there is no time to watch MLS. I cannot bring myself to watch MLS if there is a higher quality match on from a European league.
Personally, I was born in Poland and root for my hometown Wiska Krakow. I was well aware of soccer internationally from a young age and got the chance to watch AC Milan in 1990 and have supported them since then. And watched Liverpool since the late 90′s. On the National side, being Canadian, I root for my country but also root for Poland as they are my homeland. They will probably never meet internationally, so I probably will not need to make that decision
the MLS
the MLS
the MLS
the MLS
the MLS
Huh. Well, there goes another theory.
Loved the post, Dan. Ought to be required reading.
I can’t help but chuckle at the fact that there are so many people on the Internet clenching their fists in dwarfish anger at the fact that someone from outside of England/Spain/Italy/whatever would support clubs from there (although, it seems to be an English disease more than anything else).
I also love the fact that we have to follow these rigid protocols when approaching soccer. Like the fracas over “the MLS.” I love the game, but some of its fans are among the most insufferable creatures on the planet.
Dayton represent!
Fracas? I just think it’s funny how often it’s an indicator. Empirical observation.
And I think the point is less about people supporting European teams than it is about NOT supporting our homegrown league. Yes, even knowing that it’s obviously not the game being played at its highest level.
Reported for being incredibly dense.
I can say I completely agree with luftmench…..
I am an American currently living in Stuttgart Germany. Over the years I’ve spent at various times, about 3-4 years of my life here. I consider myself a Stuttgart supporter. I go to the games (home and away), I wear the shirts, I have friends who are also fans.
However, I also support DC United. Be it attending matches, ppv’ing the games etc…..
I’ve had friends (all Americans, and all EPL fans btw) who are bigtime Liverpool or West Ham, or whatever fans who say they will not support the MLS because it’s not “good enough” or “no atmosphere”. Of course, passionate, knowledgeable fans are exactly what the league needs, but apparently someone else is going to do it besides them…..
I followed the EPL early in my soccer fandom because it was the only thing on television…but now, I am lucky enough to have lived in an MLS city (DC) and a Bundesliga city…and like everyone have the option to watch matches from all around the world via the internets….
I’ve never gotten one bit of grief from my German friends when I wear my DC United shirt around in Stuttgart….in fact, folks seem quite interested in it if they have never seen it before…..
My friends who are Stuttgart season ticket holders were quite stunned to hear about MLS teams winning things like the CONCACAF Cup and InterAmerican cup back in the day….They literally had no idea ANY United States club had won ANY international competition…
The only people I ever get “MLS sux” grief from in person are my American friends who support various EPL teams even though they’ve never attended an MLS match, and live within driving distance of a couple MLS clubs….
It’s not the supporting a team from whatever nation even if you aren’t from there that pisses me off, it’s the bashing of the MLS while doing it that does…….
My favorite blog entry ever.
And let’s not forget that we’ll never be able to seriously compare the play of MLS with any Euro team. We only play them in friendies (which we win or hold our own in, but, they don’t count), and no Eurosnob yet has told me when Juventus was coming to play Houston in a League game. It’s going to take a World Cup win, or at least a deep international run over the bodies of Portugal or Spain.
Oh, wait…that didn’t work, either…
Dan, you are the man. Laughing so hard I have to go change my britches…er pants. I’ve enjoyed many of your posts, but this is the best so far.
You’re not a real fan unless you’re going to games and yelling at the referees, and telling Carlos Ruiz to get up. California Manchester United “fans”, and American born people who call in to FFF referring the the English National team as “us” drive me nuts.
The quality is lower in MLS because the pay is low because the 50000 eurowankers who will be in the stadium this weekend to see Barcelona aren’t buying tickets the rest of the year. Each player on Barcelona probably gets paid as much as entire MLS team. If you want a better local soccer team, put your money where your mouth is and help pay for it.
x1
it makes you realize eurosnobbery is sort of like racism…everyone is racist to some degree, at some point, somewhere, even if it’s subconscious, and recognizing that is the first step in the program to recovery.
I’m somewhat receptive to your point, but here is what prompted my reaction: My local sports radio station ocassionally reports on soccer scores. So this douche runs down a bunch of baseball scores, as an example, finishing with Red Sox 2, Yankees nothing. Next he goes onto US getting smoked by MEX in the gold cup final, 5 to nil. This was so bizarre that is caused me to question the whole thing.
Frankly, I think some of this was borne of US media ignorance or laziness. I don’t know how to analyze this game, so let’s study how the play-by-play and color guys do it abroad. Oh, they have these neat little expressions!!
Anyway, some use of the terms is not horrible, but I still have to question overuse of terms that describe things which are not unique to the game (nil, pitch).
So in the words of Papa Burgandy, agree to disagree.
when I was in high school the only good thing about high school football was feeling up girls under the bleachers and drinking beer in the parking lot. Hey, come to think of it, the MLS is good for the second half. It is half as good as High School!
No kidding, I was out playing golf with my buddy and we’re all like “and those eurosnobs call it ‘pitch’ … has anyone seen my caddie … and theose eurotrash have to say ‘nil’ – oops, I boogied that, ’cause I ended up in the rough … and those eurodicks call shoes ‘boots’ – did you see Venus smoke Serena 40-love yesterday?” I hate euronobs! especially those from England!
These are all good examples of the point I’m making. caddie, bogie, rough, tennis scoring. No common american english equivalent. But pitch is field, and nil means nothing.
Um… as someone who lived in Arizona, I can attest to the fact that you have no idea what you’re talking about. You are a hillbilly who can’t pronounce words properly. The Spanish pronounciation (i.e. the authentic one) is “kai-yo-tees.” It’s not your fault. The education system has failed you.
Saying “The MLS” is really just a grammatical error. But it does display a level of ignorance that shouldn’t exist in a fan, akin to saying “The United” or “The Spurs”
Sure would. We’d have all kinds of thrills seeing Dallas, San Jose or New York fold a few weeks after dropping to USL-1.
Again, that’s fine. The same grammatical “error” takes place every time you say “FIFA” or “UEFA” or “CONCACAF.” You wouldn’t say “Federation/Union/Confederation is experimenting with goal line technology,” as it is grammatically incorrect. You would say “The federation/union/confederation is experimenting with goal line technology.” We violate grammatical rules all the time when dealing with abbreviations, and “FIFA,” “UEFA,” “CONCACAF,” and even “MLS” have developed a seperate status as words in and of themselves, rather than abbreviations for “Federation of International Football Associations,” “Union of European Football Associations,” “Confederation of North, Central, and Caribbean Association Football,” and “Major League Soccer.” Another key point is the fact that many baseball fans routinely say “the MLB,” despite the same grammatical structure for a name as MLS. It comes down to the fact that most American sports leagues are “the XYZ” from the NFL, the NBA, the NHL, the NCAA, the SEC, the ACC, etc. It is just a force of habit that people shouldn’t be crucified for, and they certainly shouldn’t have their entire argument disregarded because of (which is the source of this whole discussion if you look back through the comments). That’s all I’m saying.
I became a Man City supporter a few years ago out of shear HATRED for Man United fans in the states. Also my favorite band is Oasis…
I am a Chicago Fire fan (closest to Minneapolis, and I have family connections there) and watch almost every game. But I also watch almost all Man City games. Am I a eurosnob?
Holy shit, you lived in Arizona?!? You must really know your wild canines!
And for the record, I’m a city slicker, I say kai-yo-tee (and having grown up in SoCal and knowing people who had cats picked off their porch by the little ********ers, I’m intimately familiar with them).
And you completely missed the point, it’s not what’s “correct,” but what it says about you to certain people. Just try coming to the Bay Area and saying “San Ra-Fa-Yell.” Or Frisco, for that matter….
dear mr. loney,
i am a patriotic american, and am getting the impression that you think that this kind of writing is quite inventive, creative, and funny. but it has a ring of authentinegation to me. i much prefer blogs on british football boards. they talk about the real stars of the game.
carry on.
it were a joke i made because humo(u)rless fans of the MLS seem to latch onto this as if it were the prime symptom of eurosnobbery. these are the same guys that yell offsides at the game.
and there is no “american” equivilant to bogey? only because no one playing golf or tennis in america gave a rat’s tail about “americanizing” the game. You could have called a caddie the “bag boy” or the rough “the long grass” but no one gave a crap. they played the game and used the terms that came with it.
now, i’m an mls fan, have had season tix since year one and enjoy it. but i also follow a number of other teams that i was able to follow when there was no mls and i will go out of my way to see top teams, most of which are euro, play when i can. and the mls’/american fans sensitivity on much things soccer-ish is often over-grilled.
I love the posts of people detailing their history of following the sport, than asking if they’re a eurosnob. Who gives a shit really? I thought this was supposed to be fun. Just watch what you want. Enough of these ridiculous McCarthy hearings.
If you’re asking whether you’re a EuroSnob, you probably aren’t one. If you’re giving backstory you almost certainly aren’t one. These are two things a EuroSnob would not likely be doing.
The crux of EuroSnobbery isn’t following European soccer. Hell, almost all of us do that to one extent or another. I skipped out of work to see the CL Final.
It isn’t even not following MLS, really. (Especially if you’re one of those people that had a team since your youth, or you don’t live in an MLS city, etc etc).
It’s thinking it’s MLS’s fault for not being “good enough” that you don’t follow it, but still somehow thinking yourself some sort of “better fan” for not following the local product, when you know in your heart that it’s just the opposite.
See, the EuroSnob posits soccer is like wine or opera, something that only sophisticated tastes can tell the difference between mediocre and good and can ‘truly appreciate’ the good stuff. But that’s a lot of hoity-toity BS. Soccer’s a sport, and waiting for your team to be the best before following them makes you in soccer exactly what it makes you in every sport–a bandwagoning phony.
I should make it clear that the point of my backstory wasn’t to ask whether or not I’m a Eurosnob. I’m not. Mine was a rather long-winded example of somebody who prefers the European nomenclature who’s used it since the time I began following the professional sport in this country 15 years ago, or in other words, the use of Euro terms has been very bogusly considered a symptom of Eurosnobbery.
(I no longer like most American mainstream sports with the exception of baseball, and I dislike using the terms we’d used in the early 80s in youth soccer because the professional game I now follow bears no real resemblance to the game we were taught to play by people who had never played the game. My first group of fan friends were English ex-pats, and I began talking about this game using their terms. It just seemed natural. And no, I have never owned an England jersey, have never rooted for England, nor will I. Ever. For an American to support England “just because” just seems the ultimate in douchebaggery.)
you mean +1. If you multiply by one, you’re stuck with the same number you started with.
*mathsnob*
I often play pickup games around parks in LA. As soon as I start hearing other players talk about how they love Arsenal, Madrid, Bora Bora, or Milan, while never attending a match at the HDC (Galaxy or ChivasUSA), I immediately dismiss any opinion they have about the game.
If their life is so sad they have to live vicariously through a foreign and “exotic” team, there’s no way I can hang out with that person.
My favorite is how every time I read an article on ESPN or FoxSoccer about MLS, the comments never address the article but rather are full of eurosnobs taking pot shots at American Soccer and MLS.
The article could be about the upcoming LA “Superclassico” and the first comment would be “MLS is a Mickey Mouse league. US will never win a WC. Barca 4 life!”, which has nothing to do with anything.
If we were so marginal and backwater, then why are so many eurosnobs reading these articles and wasting time with their comments?
The only thing worse is reading an ESPN article about Manchester United, where you have 200-300 comments from dweebs bitching why their top 4 team will win it all this year.
Eurosnobs: It’s “MLS”, not “the MLS”, you ignorant f’n idiots.
I Use to go to Galaxy games when they were in the rose bowl and when Cobi Jones was still playing but i still support Club America over Galaxy and i became a fan when they where the worst team in the league im no Eurosnob
This blog post if filled with bullshit.
Is this an MLS only forum now?