How soon we forgot our collective thinking last offseason. Wondo was washed up. Magnus Eriksson was worthless. Jackson Yueill was clueless and got limited work during the prior year's wooden spoon campaign. The young guys can improve year-to-year -- dramatically, and to the point they're on the radar of the national team. Wondo is ageless and should never be doubted. And if Eriksson can do a 180 so, too, can Rios and/or Fiero.
There are plenty more of us who are in Don's frame of mind. We simply do not spend the time to post here. It's not really worth it as few here seem open to discussing any topic without infusing the forum with "rage and disgust". I get that many of you would do something different if you were in charge. OK, but none of us here are in charge. It is silly to post "Fisher Out" noise as we can do nothing to move the owner out of the way. You want a new owner? Great. Go out and make a billion dollars and make him an offer he can't refuse. Until then, he is the owner and will operate the business in his own way. Which, in my judgement, is not as crazy as most people here think. And, if you disagree with what the Club is doing, I also understand. You have a couple choices: you can support YOUR Club in a good way by attending games and watching on TV or streaming. Or you can decide that the Club is not worth your level of frustration and decide to support another team. If enough of you do that, and attendance gets worse, then the team will either fold or move again and you will have achieved your goal. The Club will no longer be around to frustrate you. And, finally, for much of last season, with basically the same roster as 2018, we played VERY ENTERTAINING football for most of the season. Did all those "losers" from 2018 miraculously discover previously unforeseen new skills? Not really. Soccer is very much a Team game and it took a proper leader (Almeyda) to figure out how to apply the skills they did have most effectively. We were 2nd in the West for a while and #2 in Power rankings at MLS and ESPN for a number of weeks as well. Yes. We crashed and burned at the end of the season. If I was in charge (thankfully, I am not) I would be looking deeply at that slide to see if I can learn what happened. As Don noted, some of the fall-out came from questionable officiating. We had our leader (Almeyda) tossed twice and he missed a total of 4 games plus the ones in which he was tossed. We did not handle that mental adversity well. What can we do to steel ourselves in the face of adversity in 2020? That's what I would be focusing on given the talent that performed well for much of 2019. I, for one, am not wringing my hands and spewing anger at Fioranelli or Almeyda. Rather, I am eager to see how the boys handle Cancun this Spring (with Fiero and Rios now fully integrated) and looking forward to an entertaining start of the season.
Point #1: "at least partly" should be "in large part". I am not usually a whiner about these sorts of things. I run a soccer league and constantly have to tell complaining players that the refs are fair minded, that everybody makes mistakes, etc... but in this case the effect of poor refereeing on the Quakes is tangible. It's real. It's bull****.
Just a few points in response; nobody here is really spewing anger at Jesse or Matias, the anger is for the most part directed at Fisher and, after all these years of doing next to nothing to build a proud soccer legacy in San Jose, fans have every right to express their disgust about this. The way I see it, Fishers track record in San Jose and his failure on every level to build a competitive side, is doing more harm than good as evidenced by the dwindling numbers of fans in the seats, they can’t get sponsors, missing the playoffs every year...there is no community buzz around this team. To me, that is the biggest threat to the viability and sustainability of pro soccer in SJ As you say, fans have choices. You can support your team in a whole bunch of ways, you can walk away, you can raise hell when it looks like this owner is in this for the wrong reasons. You can hope that if enough folks refuse to buy season tickets and become willing participants in the swindle, Fisher will have to sell. The idea that this becomes a big money loser for Fisher and he has to sell to (hopefully) someone who cares about winning in San Jose, isn’t preposterous, there’s a stadium here now, and I expect that if the price was right there may be the possibility to have both, a team in San Jose AND a chance of actually competing with the teams around us. Sorry if my outrage rankles you, I think everyone under Fisher deserves better, all the Quakes fans that care about soccer and this team, the players, coaches, FO staff... ....what I find offensive is the lack of commitment to success coming from the top of this organization.
I do remember a time when 49er fans thought Jed York was a cheapskate owner who would never win anything. I don’t hear much complaining about him these days.
Quakes05... I almost never engage in these threads as usually the back and forth leads nowhere. I am not trying to persuade you or anyone else to "change your mind" or to "agree with me". But, since your reply was offered in a polite and measured tone, I am breaking my rule and will share some of my thoughts as they relate to your comments. Agreed. Many here disparage Fioranelli without knowing much about him or his plan. But I agree that your anger is toward Fisher and I have no issue with that. You, and others, use the word "failure" a lot. It is a high-energy word and I appreciate that you (and others) use it to express your anger. I respectfully disagree with this use of the word. Failure is subjective, relative to the expectations each of us have. Fine if you want call the last 12 years a "failure on every level". It is not a failure on every level to me. Only one MLS team wins the Cup every year. Are the other 23 teams "failures"? You'd probably say "No." About half the teams miss the playoffs every year. With the parity across teams in the leagues, often the difference between teams which make the playoffs and don't is slight. For example, in 2017 (when the Quakes DID make the payoffs) the point difference between the #4 Dynamos and the #8 RSL team (who missed playoffs by 2 positions) was only 5 points; less than 2 wins. Is RSL a failure? It surely is a disappointment that they missed the playoffs. But I don't consider it a failure. There is an argument that teams that miss the playoffs more often than not are failures. And the Quakes certainly have done that. I do think that we could have made better choices in coaches and player selection over the years. But I also appreciate that, if I was the owner during the Buck Shaw era, I would expect it to be very difficult to attract top players, many of whom may have been embarrassed to play in such a humble venue. My personal belief is that the ownership was marking time in 2008 until it could launch the team effectively with a proper stadium. So, I don't consider the times up to 2015 (opening of Avaya) failures. I do consider them missed opportunities and disappointments. But I understand the business decisions that were made. And we did have a decent season in 2010 where we got past the first round of play-offs, and we had a great regular season in 2012. I do not consider those failures. I did change my expectations once Avaya opened. There was much greater opportunity for much stronger revenues, and the stadium did, indeed, fill up at first. I thank Dave Kaval for that. He was able to get the ownership group (mostly Lew at the time making the calls on the stadium if memory serves) to open up its wallet and make a lovely intimate venue. I still very much like Avaya although the concourse wind tunnels are something I could do without! You make a good point that I agree with about Fisher losing enough money to be willing to sell. But that is the real problem from a business point of view. Despite claims that "Fisher doesn't care", I simply don't agree with that. He either bought the franchise because he is a passionate soccer aficionado (I don't think that's the case but it is possible) or he bought it because he enjoys the challenge of owning and operating a sporting franchise and the investment in MLS looked attractive to him (this is my personal belief). Since I think it's the latter, then he knew going in that he was going to lose money as part of regular operations. My own estimates of revenue from stadium attendance (STH or game day sales), concessions, shares of TV revenue, etc. will not cover the expenses of the stadium itself (mortgage), operating staff, game day staff, front office staff, facilities expenses, player and coach salaries, HR overhead like healthcare costs and taxes etc. The operation I suspect is quite cash flow negative. So, his bet is that the appreciation of the asset (his franchise) will cover his operating losses over the years so that his net investment will go up). Thankfully (for him), recent valuations of an MLS franchise have exploded, so he should be happy and it is why he will continue to own the franchise. It will take a LOT of empty seats before he sells! But I do not think that is what he is doing. I think he knows that the league needs to be sustainable long term to keep his investment at a high value. And he knows that a competitive team is needed to help keep his team and the league sustainable. If he was not interested in a competitive Club, he would not have hired Jesse. If Jesse was not interested in creating a competitive Club, he would not have hired (and persuaded to come to SJ) Matias. And Fisher would not have eaten the expense associated with firing Stahre and his coaching staff. Fioranelli has a plan that he "sold" to Kaval and Fisher when he arrived 3 years ago. We know what the plan is as Jesse has spoken to it many times. Now, I can appreciate that many here do not like the plan, they don't agree with the plan or they think the plan will fail. Understood. But that does not mean that there is no plan or that Fisher is not interested in that plan being successful. Thankfully, Fisher has the patience to give Fioranelli (and Matias) room to try and execute that plan. For me, as long as the plan produces entertaining soccer (which 2019 definitely was and 2018 definitely was NOT), I can live with the decisions made this off season. What rankles me is the PERSISTENT outpouring of outrage. I get your point. And I get the anger from everyone else. But enough is enough for me. We are NOT going to make Fisher sell his asset with a few protests. Fisher is not paying much attention to the handful of angry fans on the forums. I agree that the fans deserve better. So, as Angry Mark has mentioned, I do spend time talking with the folks I know in the FO. I speak to Jesse or Jared whenever I can and let them know how I feel and also how other fans like you feel and see the team. I encourage them to be more more transparent and speak more frequently about the plans. And sometimes that has an effect. At least it has a better effect than just complaining about how "stupid" they all are!
At minimum they need to sign a CB and a goalscorer.... Armchair Analyst: One big question for San Jose Earthquakes One Big Question: Is there a second scoring threat? Quakes fans are probably sick of me harping on this, but I am officially back at it: Who besides Wondo is going to put the ball in the net? They brought Cristian Espinoza back on a record fee, but he's not a goalscorer, and Vako really hasn't been on the other wing. Shea Salinas set a career high, at age 33, with six goals last season. Carlos Fierro came in mid-season and played just 228 minutes. Danny Hoesen has always been such a smooth, easy-to-watch player that it's kind of overshadowed the fact that he's not very productive. Magnus Eriksson is reliably ok. Andes Rios is... not. San Jose missed the playoffs last year for only one reason: They didn't have anybody except 36-year-old Chris Wondolowski who could be counted on to put the ball into the back of the net. And so far they've basically just brought back the same exact roster. There needs to be at least one more move or it'll be another year that ends with the Quakes on the outside looking in.
They're not going to give it a catchy brand name, because then people would start calling it that instead of the future sponsored name.
thanks for your thoughtful response! I think we agree that he bought the team as an investment and that he probably loses money on the operation but gains mightily on the overall valuation. wasn't it Tom Fox who spoke last year about how he was losing money and wanted to get that turned around? here's where we disagree, he may understand that he needs the club to be competitive, and yes, he's brought in folks to try to get things turned around in San Jose and, he may be willing to wait patiently, expecting a miracle, but he's simply not willing to invest in the players this team needs to succeed. hard to say he wants to compete when he doesn't bring in a single player after the last couple of season's.
I get where you’re coming from, and even agree with a lot of it. We had a good run in ‘10, ‘12, and decent in ‘17. Other than that, we’ve been close a couple of times, but mostly poor to terrible. OK. But you’ll agree that this is a results-driven endeavor, yes? 58% of MLS teams made the playoffs last season, the season before it was more. I think that making the playoffs is the minimum level necessary to say you had a successful season. I don’t think that we have to win MLS Cup to be successful, but making the playoffs is not a high bar. Sure, we’ll miss the playoffs once in a while, but we should make that 58% cut more often than not. Not on every level, no. And the stadium is a big win! But, we’ve struggled to get and keep jersey sponsors, we’ve struggled to get or keep a stadium sponsor, and every team in USL and every other team in MLS has met that challenge. (I don’t want Herbalife as a sponsor either, so some of that success should be leavened.) We got Huckerby and Geo to come to SJ, so it wasn’t just the small-time venue. It was also a lack of willingness to pay big (or decent) salaries. In the Doyle years, it was lack of looking for players. He signed a lot of guys brought to him by agents. He took a lot of fliers on high risk players, and most of them didn’t pan out. So there’s more to it than that, but I agree that the cheesy, pint-sized stadium was a drawback. And now, it’s lack of training facilities. Alright, but since ‘15? In five years, we’ve made the playoffs once. I chalk some of that up to the Yallop, Wat(TF), Kinnear coaching tree. Too conservative, too defensive, too uptight in so many ways to really be able to sustain success. Not wildly dissimilar from my view. The thing is, almost no sporting teams make money. They all lose cash, some almost break even, or manage to show a profit for a few years, but it's not a money-making proposition. I think that sharing our anger and outrage is cathartic for many of us. Do you remember the old "Primal Sceam" thread? Maybe we should bring that back. I think that some of us are trying to use this forum to organize protests. Knowing that many of us feel the same way, makes it easier to pick up the phone, or write an email. Speaking of which, I'm going to pen an email or two in the next couple of days. I'm angry about the state of OUR team, and I should be. I'm just trying to be more dried-eyed and rational about it. Go Quakes!! Fisher OUT!!! - Mark
I just want to add, it's possible to continue to cheer for the quakes, but also be very critical of the team and its leadership as well. The majority of us continually go to games and only cheer for the players (and boo the other players and the refs), and save our frustrations for outside of the stadium. When there was talk of a walkout here, despite my frustrations, I would never do so. I love this team, and would cheer for a team of Tommys, Nicks, JTs, Jacobs, Gilberts, Caseys, etc until the end, but this lack of sustainable success wears on me.
Sustainable success? Heck, at this point, we view the fact that we were good from April-July last year as a major accomplishment, and something that generated a lot of excitement. Unfortunately, finishing out of a playoff spot was incredibly disappointing for all of us, and sort of cast a pall over the season overall. We're just really looking for some sign of a sustained trajectory toward being competitive, rather than having to suffer more seasons of being a team that other teams love to play against. Since 2012, we have never finished above sixth place in the west (out of variously ten, 11 and 12 teams) and have twice been at the bottom of the table. Calling this anything but dismal is viewing the world through rose-colored glasses with your eyes closed and your fingers in your ears. We have sucked, well and truly, other than in 2010 and 2012, since Fisher assumed ownership of the team, and no amount of happy talk can change history. Like all fans, I am hopeful and optimistic regarding our prospects for the new season, but I am also (justifiably, I believe) skeptical that the exact same team that finished with 13 wins to 16 losses (with five draws) should expect amazing results. Call it human nature or call it realism, it is difficult to not be skeptical and concerned...
or even a tiny bit pessimistic. all this talk of 'develop and sell' and our great academy program and how the future of the Quakes lies with up and coming kids that we've identified through our youth system, is not really helping. particularly when you realize we haven't even found a plot of land to build a facility for these kids. sounds like our best hope is that Espinoza has re-calibrated his shot and, don't be deceived, Fierro and Rios are not really the players we watched last year. still hoping for reinforcements, sure would be nice if Wondo's last year (probably) could end with a playoff run.
That might be because those fans who were disgusted with York are no longer fans of the team, and thus no longer complain about him. As far as 2020 Quakes goes, I honestly think it will be eerily similar to 2019, though hopefully with a better start to the season. A better start last year would have meant they made the playoffs, so getting there is well within the possibility, even with the same roster. But I suspect a similar slump toward the end will come up and we'll see progressively worse soccer as the season goes on. I hope that's not the case.
This. It's futbol, it's not rocket science. We should be more successful than we have been. I'm hopeful insofar as I think that Almeyda is a good coach. (Notwithstanding my dislike of a 4-5-1.) We're investing at least four years in the Almeyda plan. We need some actual success, by which I mean making the playoffs and not getting blown out. And hopefully, we can sustain this model and style for years to come after Almeyda has gone on to bigger and better things. I want to believe that we're on the right track. I hope like hell that we can keep this up. But I still think that we need three DP's, even low-level DP's, and a handful of medium expensive players to pull this off. (TAM guys, below the DP level.) If this experiment is for four years, then we need to make the playoffs this year, so that we can see progress and know that what we're doing is going to work. Otherwise, we're throwing away one of four seasons. If this Almeydaball experiment doesn't work, we're back to square one and starting over essentially from scratch. So I really, really want this to work. I really really want to see us do well, and I'm not setting the bar impossibly high. Go Quakes!! Fisher OUT!! - Mark
Grrrrr! F@#$ that! I don't give a @#$ @#$%^* about other teams players!! (Unless they used to play for us.) I have no interest in watching some "great" player who is wearing the enemy's kit!!! I'm sure that your comment is sarcastic and that you feel more or less the same way. And I hope that Chicharito sucks when he wears their kit. Go Quakes!! Fisher OUT!!! - Mark
That’s not necessarily true. I could easily see it being called, for instance, The Netflix Epicenter. It doesn’t have to detract from the sponsor’s eminence and it constantly reinforces the Quakes brand at the same time.
Transfer window doesn't officially open until February, so they can also sit on any announcements until then. I was told Quakes are looking for players, but there wasn't any urgency to make negotiations public.— Robert Jonas (@robertjonas) January 17, 2020 I was told the fee was less than $10M for Espinoza. One reason for the lack of signings, I was told, was the uncertainly involving the CBA negotiations with the players union. Once that is figured out, there might be some moves.— Robert Jonas (@robertjonas) January 17, 2020 No other teams seem to be worrying about the CBA expiring.
They could, hypothetically, call it the Netflix Epicenter, but that would make it easy for fans and media to ignore the sponsor and just call it the Epicenter, which devalues the sponsorship. They want the shorthand name to be the sponsor name, as it has been with Avaya.
I don't want the Quakes to overpay for a star from Liga MX or Europe half as much as I want somebody already on the team, or a no-name signing, to absolutely tear it up and turn heads.