19/20 Winter Transfer Window

bull. people try to make me look like some anti-european person. i was a member of the swansea supporters trust -- which used to own 20% of swansea, at the time they sold the club and then hired bradley. i did so because i thought it would be cool to "part-own" a pro team, and to support their fun approach to soccer at the time.

you have no idea how nasty they got over american owners and american players. i refused to re-up as a member the next season as a matter of principle.

https://www.newsweek.com/end-bob-bradley-swansea-city-premier-league-dream-538863

and the irony of what happened to bradley is he had done what marsch is doing, gone to small teams, worked his way up the ladder, played their game. for someone who had coached USA and Egypt this was absurd, but he'd gone to lengths to build up a resume in places they would accept. and he still got sh*t just for being an american coach coming in with an american owner to run a welsh team. and i say that knowing full well they had had spaniards and others coach them. but that only underlines, double standard.

there has been a similar response to the glazers at man u.

and how do you think that players like landon can go over there and magically not impress, come back, set the world on fire, and then after that the germans and brits want him back? you don't think bias is involved in that a little? think about it. how are you unimpressive at 18, a god back home at 19, and then impressive to the same people at 25? does that really sound like he got a fair shake?that they weren't skeptical of him at 18 but confronted by reality mid career? this is half the reason i say consider going over mid career. the bias and bs disappears. you are a known quantity. they don't usually sign mid career people to sit them.

this is less true at big city clubs or places with histories with americans, eg fulham. i was in the stadium at craven cottage when lewis was introduced the first time. they loved him. but chunks of europe are either skeptical of our players, racist, or otherwise not as open.

over time it is getting better but pretending it doesn't exist is not accurate.

 

Hyndman never established himself in the C'ship, so $900 million a year looks great business for him. Players who establish themselves in the league, tend not come back, except to wind down the career. Demerit. Ream. Lichaj. Eddie Lewis.

Guys who can't hack it in the league come back. Kei Kamara. Eddie Johnson. Robbie Findley.

 

let me underline this. you can coach a world cup team to the round of 16, and english teams will be skeptical you can coach some cellar dweller in EPL. they would rather hire an (english citizen) retread that has relegated other teams before taking a risk on an american.

and man city would rather start a keeper with a 1.0+ GAA -- and slide spots behind liverpool -- than give the shirt to steffen right away.

and lampard will begin the season starting mount from the c'ship over pulisic from b.1. despite the fact if you look at goals per minute pulisic is better.

now, some teams treat our guys like mckennie or ream. but my whole point is there remains a hint of skepticism and bias. people are trying to pretend it's some open analytical exercise and not some bit of where you come from and who you know, and other such distortions, biases, subjectivities.

ironically fwiw one of the resting places of such bias is in the european flip side of your euro worship. if you think they are better than us, well, some people over there agree with you. and if they have power over recruitment, our players get judged as though they are lesser beings trying to enter a superior realm. hence skepticism and bias. it's the other side of the same coin you keep throwing around.

 

that's exaggerated. as a dynamo fan i caught a few norwich games. kamara looked fine. not blowing the doors off the place is different than "can't hack it." "can't hack it" is eddie johnson or jozy some places. there are plenty of english people in english leagues who just kind of plod along and stay employed at the same level. everyone doesn't have to lead the league in goals to have done fine.

kamara got a second team -- boro -- after the norwich loan, and would have had a 3rd, wolves, but then sierra leone fell below 75th place and the matrix for his work permit changed.

i also disagree with your substantive argument, because the game is usually that if a cameron insistent on staying abroad has a bad season, but has some history, they can find a new pod. like kamara.

and how many teams did EJ try before returning home? if sucking in one place sufficed it would have ended at fulham or cardiff. he managed to be gone 4 years.

ditto jozy, who bounced and bounced and bounced and really only played well at AZ.

sorry, no, if you're NT and repped good enough you can actually crash, burn, walk away, and be handed a new plane right down the runway. maybe even repeat once or twice. the distinction you're trying to make doesn't follow. some people stay and fight. some people say "well, i played in europe," and head home to re-secure their career.

how long did freddy bounce around europe? he actually crashed and burned multiple times, came back, burned his bridges, left, bounced around some more. if the hype is high enough there is often another "sucker." and only for some players do i see "coming back" as re-commitment. for adu it was indistinguishable from pit stops in finland or serbia or whatever.

i do think past a point of repeat suckage it may impact your NT standing or career prospects. i think as much as one botch job makes it worth considering coming back. this can be smart and logical. is it how europe actually treats you? not so much. we have had some fairly persistent screw ups stay employed abroad for years. but to me that they come home is more the player waking up and exercising career self defense than what the market demands.

i also think that the environment has changed where everyone wants a buck on the deal. i don't know if a repeat loan guy 20 years ago would have been sold for a fee, i think instead just released. MLS didn't use to pay transfer fees. now they do and if you want some guy that is always out on loan they have an offer to make you. players are treated more like assets.

 

1) Are you referring to Ederson or Bravo?
2) Slight problem in that Steffen didn't qualify for a work permit in the summer.

 

the numbers are not the end of story. appeals of work permits still exist, are you telling me the US #1 doesn't get through on one?

ederson. my count was 18 goals in 16 league games. the teams ahead of City have lower GA.

 

Why are you talking about coaches and owners. It has nothing to do with players.

Your interpretation of things is very bizarre. I dont understand how come to the conclusions you do. So let me see if I got this right. You think they signed LD to unfairly not play him? That is some next level evil bias.

Here is what I think happened. They scouted him with u17s and saw his potential. Leverkusen put him with their reserves as an 18 yo where he had ok numbers but. Ithing to suggest he should be with the first team. He came back to MLS and put up good numbers in a very league. International play enabled him to raise his game to the point he excelled at the WC as a role player. The next four years werent pretty, outside of his MLS play. Leverkusen brought him back in 2005 in hopes of him realizing his potential and he failed miserably. Leverkusen gave him a shot in central midfield at Liverpool in the champions league and he bombed. Arena tried to build the USMNT around him and he wasnt up to it 2006 (with the exception of game against italy). He didnt cut at Bayern but was finally able to have good runs with everton when he was around 30.

You are mistaking bias for the unknown. There is not a significant track record of MLS players walking to top leagues and succeeding. We have Adam's and Steffen over the last two seasons. There have been others over the years, but there have been many who havent succeeded from the start. Some names off the top of my head include Yedlin, johnson, miazga, altidore, shea, etc. Since MLS experience doesnt necessarily transfer to the bigger leagues means teams are going to be less likely to pay the premium MLS demands.

@DHC1 , you may have to move this convo if my comments trigger the LD lunatics.

 

They have tightened the appeals procedure. There is criteria that is looked at now, not just a recommendation.

Ederson missed the Liverpool game in which they conceded 3. They have played 17 games and conceded 19, so Ederson is at 16 goals conceded. They have also been playing most of the season with a mess in the middle at the back.
Stone has played 9 games, Otamendi 11 and Laporte is done for the season.

Last season they conceded 23 in 38
Season before 27 in 38

Not sure why you would think they would replace their keeper.


Steffen has conceded 35 in 16.....

 

It looks like you are the one with the bias.

Who thought Bradley did a good job coaching the 2010 team. We played ok against England and was unimpressive in the other 3 games. It was innovative to try spot the other team early goals. Algeria came close to making three games in a row when they hit the cross bar around 5 mins in. I dont think his experiences warranted him getting a shot in a top league.

You want to replace you experienced goal keeper who is allowing 1 goal a game with 24 yo kid with only MLS experience who you loaned to Germany and letting in 2 goals a game?

Have watched Pulsic's progression? He didnt look like he deserved to start early on. He has improved dramatically since the start of the season. It is amazing what change in environment and competition can do. What is weird is that CP started 3 of the first 4 games. He was then benched for a most of september before being used as a sub until late October. He came off the bench on 10/23 against Ajax and got an assist. He has been a regular starter since then. In the five games from 10/23 to 11/9, CP scored 5G and had 2A. Mount and CP are different players and comparing stats is just plain dumb. CP has gotten a fair shake.

 

Kamara had 4 goals and 2 assists in 17 games worth of minutes in the C'ship.

 

In MLS you can play against Vela one week and Ibra the next. You don't see that skill level in Ch/ship. You just don't.

 

You never know when conversing with somebody in BS how much they understand about anti-American attitudes.

 

You don't see it across MLS, either. And the median level in the C'ship is vastly higher, no matter the smattering of truly great talents at a few MLS clubs.

 

I think that's such a stupid money for a back up. Just wondering how Gressel and Pity react.

 

I still think it is difficult to compare many leagues with MLS because of the great disparities between players on the same teams in MLS. Championship teams have a lot of players of higher quality than run of the mill MLS guys, but each team in MLS has a player or three that are above Championship level. And most Championship players who prove they are top quality in that league move up, where MLS is all over the place. Relatedly, I think the on field MLS product will always suffer until these intra-team disparities are addressed. It's difficult to have an organized and tactically sophisticated team when you have such glaring quality differences between your guys.

 

his CV would say world cup coach USA, made round of 16, no losses in regulation, tied england, only beaten in overtime. previous year, 2nd place
in the confed cup, beat spain, had a lead on brazil. egypt, took a team kneecapped by the revolution deep into their qualifying. MLS champion at the Fire with an expansion side. Made awful Chivas competitive. Got Stabek into Europe. Tied third in France's second division and lost promotion on a tiebreaker. Up until Swansea he basically made winners everywhere he went.

what the heck are you talking about, biased? that's his CV. facts can't be "biased." just like when bruce goes job shopping it's like a zillion NCAA and MLS titles plus USA to the quarters. and he's never worked outside the country.

do you really think teams are going through resumes parsing out, well, but in that algeria game they hit a post. really? really? they won and advanced. seriously dude.

he already got a shot in a top league, ie, EPL. he just had the rough luck of landing in a pit of vipers.

your response to my steffen argument is fair, but only after the fact. when city chooses between steffen and the others they don't know how fortuna is going to go. you are trying to latch onto after the fact knowledge there.

comparing players competing for playing time is completely fair. the coach favored his english pal from derby. it turns out pulisic is better. you're missing that part of the point of my argument is they both came in new, and the englishman from the lower division gets favored over the runner up from the bundesliga. the hometown cooking that involves. that one goes straight in the lineup and the other has to "prove himself." that our guy with the better CV gets sat. maybe it's too subtle for people, particularly ones who want to sell the argument the EPL is better.

we hired coyle from bolton and burnley to coach houston, and he sucked something fierce. he then went back there and got the blackburn job. i think he's gotten 2 teams relegated. but he's obviously above any american choice, eh? then marsch goes over and dominates austria.

nope, sorry, indeed fairly biased. the whole point is they overrate their own quality relative to our perceived value. they would rather hire a usual suspect who has gotten teams relegated than hire an american.

 

the interesting question, to me, is the degree to which all this expansion is responsible. an issue for the NT is the DP/international slot rules taking domestic player jobs, but meanwhile we're headed towards 30 teams, which has to dilute back down the talent. imagine if you consolidated it back down to 12-14 where it ebbed. but then the deal is you can't have a dozen DPs. but the supporting casts would be better.

 

it's 50% more than houston paid elis. and what some teams pay their star player. and for them hyndman is basically a domestique who helps out the 10. he's not even "The Guy."

it's good he came back but at that pay rate he has to eventually face at least a watered down version of the Adu Problem. i can't see them extending him for more $1m years in reward for a goal and 3 assists a season. so the big deal gets him back here but then his euro-juiced salary makes him financially awkward.

i think mixx also had this issue. that you can handle this league (and moderate rungs of europe or asia), but are you worth your overheated salary demand at your rate of production. that kind of money they want an all star. they become solid MLS pros if their salary falls to the going rate. but will they accept that, or the CBA even allow a pay cut without leaving MLS and coming back.

people act like freddy adu was a total bust. he was ok enough for MLS. it was more that he wasn't a team player, and relative to his salary 5 goals and an assist wasn't worth $600k and all the locker room friction.

to be fair both kljestan and bedoya make similarly juiced amounts. it's just for that amount the dynamo have manotas scoring 10-20 goals a season.

 

Steffen would be expected to concede 35.01 goals in that same span. Mainly because he's faced the 2nd most shots in the league with 96, 1 less than Bremen's GK. 3rd on the list is 83, and RBL is the stingiest with 57 shots against their GK.

Meanwhile, Man City has conceded 2.08 more goals than expected.

To be fair, Ederson's save percentage of 70 is better than Steffen's 62, and IDK how much of that 2.08 more goals than expected is from the Liverpool game (I'm not going to go that granular, I only know Steffen's because he's started all year long). Steffen's percentage is pretty mediocre.

At the least, you can't just look at goals conceded.

 

If Roldan is worth $600K, $900 seems about eight for Hyndman.

 

You are guilty of what you are accusing them. You over rate americans.

The USMNT did notmplay well at 2010 WC and I dont think Bradley's resume shouts that he is of the level of EPL coaches. He certainly didnt prove it with his time there.

Top teams dont go sign 24 to GKs with a couple years of experience in a much lesser league to be their #1. Of course Man United did it about 15 years ago and that didnt end well for them.

Pulisic was given a chance and didnt play well early on. He earned his spot on the bench and his way back on the field with his play. It is a good thing he didnt think he was being biased against and just did the work to break through.

I dont care about foreign coaches failing in MLS.