Positional specialization a must?

Discussion in 'Youth & HS Soccer' started by CornfieldSoccer, Dec 9, 2019.

  1. SuperHyperVenom

    Jan 7, 2019
    Sorry! I was assuming your son is on a U16/17/18 DA-level team and is playing against teams with quality strikers. If he isn't - my apologies. I'm sure they will be fine, but your son will need to help him and be a big communicator.

    And it be an unwritten rule that the faster one goes after the breakaways and the other covers/blocks lanes so theres no confusion.
     
  2. CornfieldSoccer

    Aug 22, 2013
    No offense taken. I meant my comment to be a little tongue-in-cheek, but my son appears to be the most defensively experienced member of the back line (as limited as that experience may be at CB). And the jury's out on the keepers and their foot skills -- I'll resist the temptation to start throwing out my questions about this team's philosophy on playing out of the back. Safe to say I do have questions, though.

    He's a U15, and not at the DA level. A notch down from that.
     
  3. SuperHyperVenom

    Jan 7, 2019
    As the kids get older left and right backs are often instructed by the coach to get involved in the attack in the final third and it really leaves the CBs exposed when there is a counter. It takes confidence (which often comes with experience) to direct things out there and let other players know when they are not marking or doing defensive duties. CB's cant do it all!

    So, back to the OP's question - playing several positions over the years helps a player understand the game and develop on/off ball skills. My child is fast and versatile so year after year she has been moved around a lot between attack and defence. There are definite positives and negatives to this.

    She got recruited as a "defender".
     
  4. Cantona's Eyebrow

    Dirty Leeds
    Togo
    Oct 8, 2018
    I can give you a little insight into what a Premier League scout in the UK would be looking for.....

    Age 11 and below: Does the player have natural ability, good technique, does he have pace and first and foremost does he dominate small sided games.

    Age 12-15: Most players will already be scouted by this age bracket and academies will give the players who have already signed time to develop. That's not to say the odd player doesn't slip through the scouting net. For these players the criteria to land a place in a professional academy is simple: be better than what the club already has.

    Age 16 and above: Players will be almost exclusively picked-up from other academies and scouted dependant on their position. Scouts at this age group are given remits to scout certain positions and will look in a variety of regions to find the most suitable fit for the team.

    That's a generalised view on what scouts look for in the UK.
     
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  5. Terrier1966

    Terrier1966 Member

    Nov 19, 2016
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    Our experience has been that top club, DA and college recruit by position. But, as noted, they do pick up on foundational skills and versatility.

    DA clubs have plenty of kids, our experience was at the older ages they didn’t move them around much. They would bring a kid up to play a position versus moving a roster guy to a new position.

    In college our experience includes D1 and D3 so we’ve seen a bit. While coaches do recruit by position they can’t bring kids up or add a player during a season.

    There are 16-18 who will get almost all the time because some kids are inexperienced or not strong enough players.

    So, injuries and departures can leave a coach willing to move players to new positions, sometimes temporarily. A particular opponent may dictate a faster or stronger player match up against them.

    Point being, keep them diversified as long as you can and I’d say it is good if the HS or winter team has them play an alternate position. However, top club, DA and college coaches will want to see them be a master of some position.

    Once in college the limited roster may help a versatile player get more time.
     
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  6. ThePonchat

    ThePonchat Member+

    #ProRelForUSA
    United States
    Jan 10, 2013
    I've Been Everywhere Man
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I do not agree with a wide-spread "positional specialization."

    Could it be good for some kids, maybe? Could it hurt more kids, yes. As I ask my goalkeepers right now (U11-U14), "what position will you play in 3 years?" They often can't answer, and that's how it should be. Will some be dedicated goalkeepers, yes. Others will likely find another spot on the field.

    As a former college coach, I picked players based on if they possessed the abilities to fit on my team. Some of it was based on potential too -- did they have some tools that we could work with and develop. We have no idea what the "next coach" will be looking for in a player/position. It's important for youth players to have a variety of development and learn the intricacies of each position. A "natural selection" will end up playing out and players will find/gravitate/develop into a position that fits them. Or, they'll choose a position that will enable them more playing time.

    I didn't become a full-time goalkeeper until my sophomore year in high school. A player I coached against who is in MLS was a two-time college MVP in his conference as a forward, he's made his living in pro soccer as a right back. I consult with aspiring professionals now, it's important to just make an impact on the field...wherever you can do it. Force the coach to play you and you'll stay on the field.
     
  7. Cantona's Eyebrow

    Dirty Leeds
    Togo
    Oct 8, 2018
    If I asked any of my goalkeepers (over the age of 11) what position they'll play in 3 years, they better say goalkeeper.

    If they say another position, it's highly likely they'll be dropping down several levels and almost certain they'll no longer be playing in an Eyebrow squad.

    By 11 years old, goalkeepers should be specialising in the position, at the top level.
     
  8. ThePonchat

    ThePonchat Member+

    #ProRelForUSA
    United States
    Jan 10, 2013
    I've Been Everywhere Man
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is horrible advice. Do not listen to this. I'm sure it's satire though too.
     
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  9. Terrier1966

    Terrier1966 Member

    Nov 19, 2016
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    I don’t think kids should be forced into it at all...what I observed: by 12-13 years old any player that was a club GK stayed a GK as far as I saw. That’s boys and girls.

    I do know some GK’s who played CB on HS teams if there was an upper-classmen manning the net.

    I am not an advocate for specialization, I consistently tell parents to do what they can to ensure versatility, just reporting what was witnessed...it is tough to tell chickens from eggs...do players specialize because they feel they must to compete with those who choose/get told to specialize OR are some kids naturally suited through skill and disposition to play certain positions and therefore develop the focus and mentality that they “are” that position?

    Good coaching and sane parenting can help players resist the temptation...however those two things are rare enough much less needing both to exist in the same moment.
     
  10. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    More evidence to idea that players, over time, move backward (positionally), never forward…

    Still waiting to hear the story of the HS keeper who moves up to forward in college…I think I’ll be waiting a long time…

    Once you start to specialize, the further back you start (on the field), the less options/opportunities you have going forward…not saying you shouldn’t specialize (at keeper or CB); just pointed out the reality…
     
  11. CornfieldSoccer

    Aug 22, 2013
    I tend to agree with this. One of the few exceptions I've seen to this is my son's move in high school to CM from LB, and I'm not sure how long that one will last (the HS coach seems more open to moving people around than most coaches -- more than once last season he moved the star forward to CB late in games to lock down leads).
     
  12. ThePonchat

    ThePonchat Member+

    #ProRelForUSA
    United States
    Jan 10, 2013
    I've Been Everywhere Man
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Honestly, this is a first I’ve ever heard of this movement forward/backward on the field.

    Trying to think of more that I’ve seen, not sure I’ve seen tons that fit either. I know of a DI All-American who moved from CB to CF, and was an absolute handful. Can’t say that there are tons that I’ve paid attention to.

    Will start watching though.
     
  13. Terrier1966

    Terrier1966 Member

    Nov 19, 2016
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    I was once told, when one of mine was put in back line “they only move back, they never go the other direction”...Which I wouldn’t say is universally correct but it seems to be directionally accurate ( get it?)

    I’m not a coach, but I watch a lot and am fond of understanding how things work. To me, aside from not wanting a player to be exclusively back line too early, players should do what they can to be exposed to the middle of the field and not dwell solely on the outside.

    Learning to play 360 degree soccer is important and will also increase the versatility.

    As they advance, all players will find themselves playing against good players who play in good systems. They will get pressed, they will get doubled and they will need to be able to get out of it. Backs simply cannot repeatedly play the ball out of bounds as a defensive tactic.

    So, my worry about specialization to back line or wing is more about what it doesn’t teach you that you will need later.

    Training should help but it doesn’t replicate real pressure on a large field.
     
  14. Cantona's Eyebrow

    Dirty Leeds
    Togo
    Oct 8, 2018
    That's it in a nutshell.
     
  15. Cantona's Eyebrow

    Dirty Leeds
    Togo
    Oct 8, 2018
    Ehhhhhhh no, not satire. At the top level of youth football, like my post said, a goalkeeper should be specialising in the position.

    Goalkeeper is a specialised position that needs specialised training. At pro youth level in the UK, all goalkeepers will be signed to youth contracts to play and specialise in that position. A player can sign a pro youth contract at 10 years old. At that age he's training, developing, and being conditioned to play as a goalkeeper.

    My goalkeepers will take part in outfield drills to improve their feet, but don't dip in and out of the position willy nilly. They will get a small amount of training time, to play as a sweeper, usually for the last ten minutes of a conditioned game, again to improve their feet and get them linking with defence and midfield when playing out from the back. I'll also do this when it's very cold to get the keeper's core body temperature up.

    If it's community football, or fun games, then sure they get their turn in and out of goal. However, at the higher level, or for any goalkeeper who is serious about playing the position, it's wholly appropriate for a goalkeeper's development than he trains for the position.
     
  16. TheKraken

    TheKraken Member

    United States
    Jun 21, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I had heard that before, but my son was placed at center back for most of U11 and he moved back up. He has moved around every year which is good I think.
    U9 at center-mid.
    U10 played striker mostly.
    U11 center back
    U12 CDM
    His coach told me he's going to play him more at the 8 and 10 in the spring. I see parents get so scared when their kid goes to center back, but it can be the best thing for development. Learning to play defense, seeing all the action in front of you, and finding how to make the simple, correct passes to get out of the back.
     
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  17. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Not being argumentative, but there is a difference between spending time at a position and specializing (being lock-in to or pigeonholed) at a position…you son spend time at CB for 1 season (so far)…my son (U17) hasn’t played really played anything but CB since U10…looking back, I would have preferred that not to have been the case…
     
  18. TheKraken

    TheKraken Member

    United States
    Jun 21, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, I realize that. I was just saying that not always you have to play in CB for the rest of your life if you get moved back there. I would think if your son never moved from CB it's probably because he is really good at it.
     
  19. Terrier1966

    Terrier1966 Member

    Nov 19, 2016
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    One of the beauties, or frailties, of soccer is that each manager has different views and can/will use players differently depending on a variety of inputs.

    One of the things I recommend to parents is to attend seasonal camps, at other clubs, play as a guest etc. and try to get other opinions. Ask other coaches what they see and what they think would be good development and good next steps.

    The chances that one club or HS coach has figured out the optimal position for a player that hasn’t even stopped growing is near zero.

    The algorithm has a lot of variables and no single one should have too much weight.

    We were once in a situation where the club played two outside backs on the opposite sides that the HS did...and they were both experienced coaches with respectable skills and resumes; they worked at the same club to boot.

    We did our best to be accommodating to the team’s needs but seek out opportunities for exposure and skill development.

    One college ID camp put one of ours at striker despite them being a back line player... they had a great day and there were coaches talking of that being where they would play...that was one day, nobody ever saw them play striker again and nobody else has put them there.

    Go figure.

    So, don’t just sit back and take what they are giving but it is also a risk to say “they we won’t join the team unless they get to play their position of choice”.

    If you can make sense of all of that you may need medication (or stop taking the medication)
     
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  20. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Relatively yes, and he enjoys the position and it fits his personality…he was "big man" on the field for those early years....

    Yet, objectively, I know or strongly fear, he’s not as good nor as well-rounded a soccer player as a result, as he could have been had he played other positions or wasn’t locked in so earlier on…HS has been tough, as his position has been largely unavailable/uncrackable though his Junior year and the hope of college 4-5 years ago has faded to the reality its likely not going to happen…not trying to be a Debbie downer or all sour grapes….it’s been a fun and rewarding ride, for both him and us, but as it comes to an end, it’s hard not to reflect back on some of these significant decisions, whether made by us or someone else…
     
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  21. pu.ma

    pu.ma Member

    Feb 8, 2018
    I agree with this point. For youth soccer, once on the team, I dont recall ever hearing about a player getting to choose the position that they want to play. The coach decides. That's not necessarily a good thing.
     
  22. Almost done

    Almost done Member

    Juventus
    United States
    Oct 4, 2019
    This is my daughter's story in a nutshell but she is a RB(not nearly as valuable). On her current team, she and the LB(just like your daughter also-fast,left footed, powerful leg, Never uses right foot) have both managed to stay on the field at all times, take all PKs and CKs. This has been the case for the past 4 years at the ECNL level and it has thankfully paid off. Both players received generous scholarship money to D1 programs. I will let you know how it goes next year. fingers crossed...
     
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  23. bmirak

    bmirak New Member

    Dec 20, 2019
    Good topic. Very interesting.
     
  24. CornfieldSoccer

    Aug 22, 2013
    That's a really tough thing to watch, and -- not sure if this applies to your son or not -- so much of that can be in the hands of the coach and how they view a given player, whether they're willing to move people off of one position into a very different role, ...

    My son starting at CM for the JV this fall while playing some varsity in his first HS season was great. Next fall, good chance those spots are locked up, so he almost certainly wouldn't start there if he makes varsity as a FT player. But the team will lose both its starting CBs. After watching his HS coach move people around this fall, I have some idea of what could happen next year.

    I'll second Terrier's comment above about using camps and other teams for different perspective. Camps and the winter team my son's on now have certainly provided that. Like Terrier, I watched my son spend a week two summers ago at a camp at a college as a striker, and he had a great week, tore it up by all accounts. And he's never really lined up there again for anyone else. That coach saw something that none of the four or five other coaches he's played for since then have seen, I guess.
     
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  25. scoachd1

    scoachd1 Member+

    Jun 2, 2004
    Southern California
    Comes for Ajax and Cruyff. Best players start at CF/AM then move wide and back. Also very common for outside backs to be former wingers/forwards - a typical example is Ryan Hollingshead of UCLA - was pac 12 player of year at CF/CM - now an outside back. Omar Gonzales started as a forward as a youth player with US youth national team and went on to play Maryland with a forward/winger named Graham Zusi. There are exceptions like the guy that started out as a left back from Southampton and ended up being a $100 Million transfer as an attacking player.
     

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