The current state of our youth national teams

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by xbhaskarx, Jan 17, 2019.

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  1. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was agreeing with this post even before the genius idea of two Sergino Dest's! If we could also have at least two Pulisics then this cycle is set! By next cycle when all the other youth are mature enough to play then only one of each player will hopefully be needed.
     
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  2. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    It's just perspective. I consider the last 30 years of the game in this country, and it is clear to me how far we have come. I am also not under any illusions about how far we still have to go until we are at the top, but there was always going to be decades worth of groundwork that was needed before we could even think about that. We are getting very close to that point (being able to think about it, not actually being there).
     
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  3. bpet15

    bpet15 Member+

    Oct 4, 2016
    Funnily enough, this is exactly what has me concerned. Why the current playing style may be more pretty on the eyes, I could make the argument that our results were just as good if not better back then - in both youth championships and World Cups (although not that far back).

    Are we improving, no doubt. However, I think the rest of the world is also improving, but at a faster pace. Only time will tell.
     
  4. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't be a dick about the typo man. We still have a lot to go to compete with the big boys but if you look at what was happening at the youth level in 2010 compared to now we have made a significant amount of progress this decade. Kids are being put in professional environments at an early age, residency is no longer needed, kids are regularly going pro before they turn 18, we no longer look to college kids for youth national teams or pro teams, we have more young players in Europe than ever before, and our youth national teams have multiple lineups of kids who will go pro out of high school which even three years ago was not a thing.

    In the future we will have more MLS clubs providing funded academies offering more opportunities for the development of youth across the country and clubs who did not care about youth development (Houston, New England, Chicago...hopefully) are looking like they may be changing their philosophies there. This means we will be having even more professional players, more u17 and u20 ynt kids getting thousands of pro minutes, and more high quality players going to Europe and getting first team minutes than ever.

    The next step for Ussoccer is more scouts, more diversity in their staff (preferably more latino's) and moving soccer house to LA for purposes of recruiting dual nats, being close to training centers, and having a place coaches will be okay with living at.
     
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  5. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In my opinion England, Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Belgium, Portugal and the Netherlands are the only countries progressing faster than we are. This is expected as the goal for us is to put kids in Europe and we have significantly more restrictions do than all of those countries which will always give them an edge. But I have played with and seen how two large clubs in Brazil operate and outside of the pure passion and hunger of the players (which comes from them having a chance to escape the favelas and a life of crushing poverty) we are not any different at the coaching level.
     
  6. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Was worried you'd take it that way and why I starter by saying I was on board with the post. I just got a chuckle and and thought it was a light hearted humorous solution to some player personnel issues. No ill intent intended.
     
    David Kerr repped this.
  7. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd say that they're all obviously ahead of us but not sure Italy and Spain are advancing right now. they are treading water or slipping some from their best days in my opinion. In the minnowverse I'd actually add Canada and perhaps Iceland although they may have peaked. Japan is a wait and see if they can ever do well at the actual WC and not just seem like they will. Of course it's easier to progress from bad to mediocre than mediocre to good while good to great is almost impossible.
     
  8. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Italy is still progressing but they have slowed from when they were a world power and the Serie A was a powerhouse league but their youth teams have been great and they are still pumping out great prospects. The same thing goes for Spain, La Masia is having a hiccup lately but all of the other clubs are still doing well. Catching up to both will take a long time unless we can send more kids to europe before they turn 18.
     
  9. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    If it was not such a big deal, why did Sunil Gulati ask Christian Pulisic to call Gonzales directly on the eve of his switch? Why did Thomas Rongen lie about his contacts with Gonzales?

    Development is not linear and Gonzales has not improved immensely since 2018. However, he would surely have been capped and he would probably be #2 on the depth chart behind Tyler Adams as an all-action #6. Since Adams has been hurt, he would have probably started many games if we had hired anyone but the President of the Will Trapp fan club to be our coach.

    Any other cherry picked, with hindsight not that big a deal, things? Or should we actually list all the dysfuntion in a 2000 word post? Haha, the site is filled with it.

    This entire thread is dysfunction by the Fed. They have not hired a single YNT coach for the women or men in over 9 months! Almost every position is vacant. The one good thing that was happening in 2015-2017 and they killed it.
     
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  10. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Japan is ahead of us. They developed players like Shinji Kagawa when we were developing a lost generation. They started after us, have much of the same problems as us (not the most popular sport), their league is newer than ours or close in age, and they are better. If they had our gene pool, they would be a power. South Korea might be better and have thus progressed faster than we since 2002.

    Mexico leap frogged us. They consistently beat us and they have better players. We might have better youth players coming through, but that will not show for a cycle.

    The English Championship has progressed as a league in quality of play faster than MLS. What was once a slog fest is now one of the top 10 leagues in the world. People still crap on it on this side of the ocean and even in England, but going by any metric it is right there and far beyond MLS. Countries that have many players in the EC routinely beat us (i.e. Ireland). Some of our best young players are in the EC but have been frozen out by Gregg for whatever reason and it has hurt us.

    US Soccer was progressing, kept their NCAA development model for too long, and is now playing catch up from way behind.
     
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  11. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    I don't understand how you can downplay the fact that USL has 40 teams between two divisions. How can you also gloss over the success of our "kids" in Europe? There are more than a couple players absolutely terrorizing their competition at levels that we have not seen much from American teenagers. How can you ignore the emphasis that MLS has placed on developing, signing, and playing teenagers? How can you ignore how the DA has centralized most of the best youth players in the country so that they can play and be scouted in good environments (which still need to be much better)?

    These are all humongous things that are absolutely vital to the game in the US, and they have changed the landscape for the better in major ways. After a decade+ of laying some serious groundwork, the system has started to produce: Pulisic, McKennie, Adams, Sargent, Pomykal, Weah, Ledesma, Mendez, Alvarez, Carleton, Llanez, Reyna, Busio, Leyva, Aaronson, Bassett, etc. are the first wave of players to come through. This is the beginning of a new era of US Soccer.
     
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  12. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    This isn't USSF, this is MLS. The only good thing that USSF has done, is closing of the Bradenton shithole, existence of which retarded the development and killed two generations of soccer players. But USSF is still there and all the growth (if any) will be despite of it, not because of it.
     
  13. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    USSF mandating the DA play a 10-month season in the 2012 or help fund the MLS academies so they could largely do away with pay-for-play (which followed by them starting to rapid sign kids after their academy spend expanded significantly) wasn't a good thing?
     
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  14. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    MLS and USSF are still closely connected for obvious and necessary reasons. They should grow more independent over time, but, at this point, USSF deserves some credit for most of what happens in MLS.
     
  15. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    USSF has their fair share of problems but to act like they have done nothing over the last couple years is absurd. They definitely have some negatives and major problems to fix but a lot of work has been done over the last decade to really help us long term and saying otherwise is downright ignorant and biased against them.
     
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  16. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    I can't say they've done nothing. They've grown more corrupt and incompetent. NT results is the only objective measure of their performance.
     
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  17. bpet15

    bpet15 Member+

    Oct 4, 2016
    I am curious as to what these things "they have done" are. Would you mind sharing?

    There is no bias against USSF or MLS from my standpoint. I can only call it how I see it. My mind is open and I'm willing/hoping to have it changed - but its going to take more than anecdotal statements to do so.
     
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  18. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    Sorry, but this is a blatantly ignorant statement. I understand that is how most fans think, but it is grossly incorrect.
     
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  19. bpet15

    bpet15 Member+

    Oct 4, 2016
    I think this debate is close to going off the rails, but lets ride it out.

    Instead of just calling out his comment as blatantly ignorant, why don't you give your opinion as to why you think its ignorant or incorrect?

    This way, we could possibly debate actual opinions based on information.
     
  20. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    USSF is generally responsible for the entire landscape of the game in this country. Haven't you noticed this landscape changing drastically? The development of MLS and USL has been huge. The development of the DA has been huge. Securing 2026 was monumental.
     
  21. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    The opinion is so far off base, I'll just use a metaphor to simplify the argument.

    Senior national team results are the tip of the iceberg that is visible. 99% of USSF responsibilities have to do with other things that are not necessarily in plain sight for normal fans.

    As far as information, DK and I are answering your question over and over again about what USSF has done to develop the game to a higher level in the US, and you keep on saying you don't see it.
     
  22. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    Question: What happens if -- when Pulisic, Adams, Altidore, McKennie, Dest, Steffen, Weah, Sargent, Pomykal, etc are all finally on a roster together -- the US starts pulling off result after result and playing brilliant soccer led by Berhalter? Did USSF suddenly become a different and more competent organization, or did the seeds it has been sowing for over a decade just finally start to produce?
     
  23. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    It wasn't that long ago that every birth year from 15-19 had its own YNT with its own staff. They were even going to have a special roaming coach for GKs. But Jay Berhalter, Chief Commercial Officer, shot that last thing down. Then even before Earnie (Jay again?), they let a process of attrition happen where every job, but one, is now vacant.

    The one thing you guys are homing in on as good, youth development, and the USSF part is a dumpster fire. Do you not see that?

    The USSF has kept ticket prices sky high as crowds at USMNT games have dwindled. They are being sued by everyone.

    The biggest fans of the USMNT and USWNT were protesting at the last USMNT game and Gregg had to write and apology letter to them.

    It goes on and on.

    Much of what you credit them and MLS with is dumb luck. Hordes of elite youth are heading to Europe, not because of smart policies, but because of dumb policiies. USSF never did one of their basic jobs and set up a Training Compensation mechanism. So, our players are free and attractive. They didn't do that to make our players free and attractive but to prevent MLS having to pay the fees for foreign players. They never got around, in 15 years, to setting up a youth passport system they were required to set up.

    The other reason so many are in Europe is MLS roster rules. These were not put in place to incentivize players to go to better training environments in Europe, but to keep player acquisition costs to nothing (like the NFL has it). It is only because the policy backfired and MLS had to become more attractive did we see some liberalizing of HG player sale rules and more young players getting minutes. Still, minors are signed to contracts that FIFA considers unethical.

    Everything good happens in spite of USSF or as an unforeseen consequence of policy that was put in place to have the opposite effect.
     
  24. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    That is a wild hypothetical.

    Which Berhalter? The one that only let the team focus on one phase of the game to the detriment of everything else and racked up historic losses all year? Or the one that had the team play super pragmatic in the last game? The former is not getting results with any group of players.

    It would all be in spite of USSF. What did USSF do for Pulisic? He paid for his soccer education in this country and then moved to Germany to become what he is at 16. What exactly did they do for him?

    USSF cut McKennie from the U17WC roster and had him contemplating going to college. He would be there now if Schalke had not rescued him.

    Weah, like Pulisic, went to France to become a soccer player after mostly playing for a pay-for-play DA team at a very young age.

    Dest was developed in Holland. He was identified as American and brought into the system by Dave Van de Bergh alone. Nobody at USSF knew he existed. Of course, DVdB was forced out as a YNT coach because he didn't want to move to Chicago. Dest was also identified by Ramos, who has similarly been forced out or left after business executives killed his initiatives.

    Sargent also paid to play in the DA then moved to Germany at the earliest possible age.

    So, if your wild hypothetical happens, we can mostly thank the Feds of Germany, Holland, and France. We can thank two YNT coaches that were forced to leave by current executives. We can also thank pay-to-play soccer academies in a few states that existed before and after the DA in pretty much the same way.

    Probably also thank Sunil for preventing USSF from ever setting up a TC/S mechanism to help Don.
     
  25. Eighteen Alpha

    Eighteen Alpha Member+

    Aug 17, 2016
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    Brilliant post, brother.
     
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