2019-20 Roster Movement Thread

Discussion in 'Sporting Kansas City' started by vividox, Sep 23, 2019.

  1. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    They changed that ruling, KC96. Homegrowns return 100% of proceeds to the club, part of their academy incentive. We would get full dollar value for Busio or Salloi.

    EDIT: Also, I heard from a spot or two that MLS might have greased the wheels on this transfer, so it might be as not-all-our-own-steam as Dempsey was back then. No way to tell, as they won't even release the dollar figure, let alone specifics.
     
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  2. KC96

    KC96 Member

    Mar 2, 2013
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Awesome - I always thought that rule was a dis-incentive to produce HG's. But do you know if the league still takes a % on non-HG sales?
     
  3. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Yes, they sure do. So if we sold Ilie to a Spanish club, SKC would get maybe 70% of that? I forget the figures.

    Did you see my edit in the post above?
     
  4. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  5. KC96

    KC96 Member

    Mar 2, 2013
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I did. I also heard Pulido was on our Discovery List, so we had dibs.

    But in any case I'm sure all kinds of backroom agreements are struck in MLS all the time. Known publicly released example: "Hey Chicago/Hauptman, Let New England have Jermaine Jones and we'll make it up to you later."

    And even though I groused about the League Subsidy for Dempsey, I'm confident our savvy owners extracted their pound of flesh for voting to agree with it - maybe Pulido is the league payback 5 years later....

    We will never know, due to the complete opaqueness of this "owner's club." Hell, we didn't even know about Columbus Crew/Precourt secret contract escape clause to Austin, until years after the fact when Ohio law and bad PR forced it out into the open.
     
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  6. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Even when it's said to be less opaque, I'm pretty sure the fees are lied about almost all the time.
     
  7. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
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  8. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I could see us splashing on another forward only if he is a LW. I know this guy has played on the left, so maybe, though I'd think we'd rather go for a natural winger if we could.

    I'd still rather prioritize the midfield.

    We'll just see. I mostly expect this was a failed bid pre-Pulido that's just being mentioned now, especially considering the low transfer figure. If we sign another striker, and this one for the second most money we've ever spent on a player... I can't even see the plan in that.
     
  9. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    If we actually are working on a deal for this guy, it's quite possible it might allow us to push Johnny back into the midfield. He has that sort of engine and his skill set works in that role. And, while I'm not sure about what it would mean defensively, (defensively Roger > Russell ) I could see it giving us a fantastic look going forward. I mean, he's played as a midfielder for much of his career, at a wide man in a 4-4-2 in a 4-2-3-1, which is different than how we'd play him. Even so, the way he picks up a late run and bursts through the box, he could still be very dangerous in that role, still produce 10 goals or thereabouts.
    Aside from JR, though, I think we'd be out of luck with moving an attacker back. Maybe Gerso, but it does kind of take away his strongest feature, stretching the field and unbalancing a defense.
     
  10. Blando13

    Blando13 Member+

    Dec 4, 2013
    Lee's Summit, MO
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Blue testament did an interview with a Chivas guy and said Pulido has actually played more 10 than 9 ... he could be the 3rd mid next to Felipe and in front of Illie with this guy. Leaving Russell be the terror he is on the wing.
     
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  11. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    that's better, then.
     
  12. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Can't remember where I saw it, but in one of the interviews, Vermes said Pulido was brought in to play forward.
     
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  13. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I was gonna try to find that but I had to brush off my car to go to work... Boo.

    But yeah, Vermes, normally a major proponent for praising any player's ability to move between positions, said none of that about Pulido. It was all "he is a striker, a world class striker, and he will play striker for us." I don't think we really need to worry about seeing him stuck on the wing for a harder runner or pushed to the midfield because there is a better battler out there. Everything I've seen says Pulido can run all day and push people around just fine.

    Johnny is not really a midfielder at all. At Dundee he was an out and out striker, but moved to the wing with Derby. The dude will track back and work hard, but whether wide or central, he is a forward absolutely. Especially since he is our best forward and playing the best soccer of his career right now too. Would break my heart to move him further away from the box.

    I wouldn't expect a significant amount of movement among our retained starters. Obviously, we're pending a few signings, at least one of which will hopefully impact our starting XI, but right now I think it pretty clearly will trot out as:

    Gerso - Pulido - Russell
    Gutierrez - Ilie - Espinoza
    Martins - Besler - Barath/Puncec - Zusi
    Melia

    Barath or Puncec being a big question right now. But the rest pretty set in stone, I'd think.
     
  14. lukeD

    lukeD Member+

    Jul 7, 2011
    Olathe
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think you have the starting XI nailed down.

    It feels like we have good depth in some positions and limited in others. CB depth seems good, wing back depth is OK, midfield depth isn't good at all, and we seem OK at forward as well. Wing forward depth depends a lot on Salloi and if we get him in his 2018 or 2019 form.
     
  15. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think wingback depth is as bad (or worse) than our midfield depth right now. We really only have Lindsey right now. Anyone else you're moving out of a position (winger, midfield, CB) to play as a wingback. We don't necessarily need a starting caliber wingback, but another guy that could be asked to play a game or two in a row is a need.

    Midfield it all depends on where Vermes has Felipe playing in 2020.
     
  16. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Fullback depth is definitely the thinnest. Buzz is right, we have one backup fullback at all, and the kid is very raw. I think we need to sign two fullbacks (one left, one either/or?) this offseason.

    Midfield is also a problem. Starting three and Busio... then Wan Kuzain, Hernandez... Jesus, that's it. Not as direly thin as fullback, but pretty dire. And the question of where Gutierrez plays has a lot to do with what kind of signings they are chasing right now. They gunning for an 8 or 10? Roger better look out. They gunning for a 6? Ilie. Should be interesting to see how it all pans out.

    Forwards we're okay on? The starting 3, then Salloi, Shelton, and Hurtado. Then Freeman maybe? We could use a bit more depth, or more excitingly, a new starting LW, but depending on how we spend in the midfield, that might be a wild bit farfetched. My guess is nothing but some depth up top too.

    Yeah, all in all, the only changes I could see to the starting lineup right now are if we sign a first-XI mid (seems somewhat likely) or if we sign a first-XI LW (seems unlikely, and there's been no noise at all on that front).

    Both Salloi and Gerso were lucky last year that the other struggled so hard. If there were a big disparity in their degrees of success, one would probably have been traded off, is my guess.
     
  17. lukeD

    lukeD Member+

    Jul 7, 2011
    Olathe
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The depth at both positions (wing back and midifield) is primarily provided by the young kids, at least as the roster currently is constructed. None of it is good, but I agree that depth at the outside back position is bad right now.

    In my opinion, unless another AM is brought in, Felipe will play the No.10. We can get others to play the No.8 or 6 but he is great going forwards.
     
  18. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    In 2019, Roger was able to give us 16 games, 1149 minutes. In previous years, we'd seen his play much more, but wear out by mid august. Can we count on more from him as he turns 34 than we could as he was turning 33? So, a philosophical question: If he is available to start fewer than half our games, is he actually a starter? I'd hope he can give us 20-25 starts this season. But only an idiot builds a roster on hope.
    Given that he is coming off a season of injuries, that his usefullness requires he play at his balls to the wall pace for 90 and that he is not youngening, our the practical reality for our starting midfield from current selection options probably looks more like Busio-Felipe-Ilie.
    Vermes ended last season quite down on Ilie, and on here there is quite a bit of agreement on that downedness (I disagree, but I make up words so what do I know).
    I do think that means that he will have a very short leash, if not a choker. So our midfield for quite a bit of this season can be expected to look like:
    Busio, Wan-Felipe.
    Does anyone on here see us controlling the West with that midfield?
    Thought maybe Puncec, who has played DM in the past, is seen as a new Ilie option? If that is the case, we'd still need a new Roger option, capable of starting, and a new depth or better CB.
     
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  19. Blando13

    Blando13 Member+

    Dec 4, 2013
    Lee's Summit, MO
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought he said "in the center" and everyone assumed it was the "center" of the front line. Could be "central" which would be the 9 or the 10 really ... but really, I don't believe they'll bring in another 9 anyways with other needs (like 6/8 mid and wingback) are more apparent.

    I do think Busio could be given a starter spot this year and be depended on. I'm hopeful Lindsey is ready as well, but Zusi is a solid backup "mentor" for him.
     
  20. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Chad's got it on the Blue Testament. Pete's full quote:

    "He’s a striker up top. As I said before, I know everybody has their own opinions of how players play and different formations but it’s simple: he’ll be in the middle of the park for us. I think he’s an easy guy to play through, but I love his courage in and around the box. I love the way that he’s not afraid to get in on really tough situations where he’ll stick his nose on the end of a ball. At the same time, he can hit the strikes from distance, as well. So it’s pretty simple, he’s going to play center forward for us."
     
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  21. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  22. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    As I see it, there are three primary questions about 2020 remaining:
    Can Roger return to his pre-injury status, despite reaching the just about end of career age?
    Does Vermes believe in Ilie as the full season answer as our 6?
    Can Zusi return his level of play to his 2017 level?
    Without yes answers to these three, we are in for, at best, a very odd season: Strong in the attack and on goal, 2019 level goals against.
    The Zusi question I'm okay with. I don't think he can reverse time, but I remain a believer in Lindsey, but I do think if that is the plan, Lindsey should start from game one and get any kinks out of his game while others in the league are also playing themselves into shape. Zusi, I believe, has reached the point in his career when he's an impact sub/spot starter.
    I'm more worried about Roger. If his legs can't carry him, he adheres rather strictly to the either the man or the ball, but never both mantra, and slower roger tends to go for the man, a lot. We also do not have a replacement on the roster.
    The Ilie question probably has a lot to do with how we answer the first two questions. I would suggest that these three positions, however, have and will determine our success or failure.
     
  23. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the answer to the Espinoza and Ilie question depends more on the questions of where Vermes is going to play Gutierrez and where the midfielder Vermes is looking to add (he said we're going to add someone to each line) plays. Gutierrez was preferred to Ilie in the 6 role because of his mobility. At the same time it felt like the offense struggled when Gutierrez was sitting deeper.

    I think you can also ask questions of Busio's inclusion in the lineup. Could he make the case for more time in 2020? If so, then the logical spot to look to upgrade the midfield would be to find a younger "destroyer" type who can eat up space on the field like Espinoza is/was able to do.
     
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  24. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    That's also the easiest piece to find. A high level AM is rare and expensive, and we have one with a decent backup. The DM is the hot position around these days, so they're more pricey.
    The 8, however, just needs a solid pro with a great work ethic (IMO this is Roger), and there are a lot of those around. I'm never quite sure how much inside info the MLS site folks get, working for MLS and all, but in their 10 transfer target piece they mention Markus Henriksen, 27, who's been given the all clear to leave for free by Hull, Renato Tapia of Feyenoord, 24 and given the clear to leave, as well as Ebenezer Ofori, 24 who started quite a bit for NYCFC last season and is out of contract in June with Stuttgart. All three are listed as good MLS targets. Now, there are dozens of others, maybe hundreds of others, who might be just as good or better.
     
  25. lukeD

    lukeD Member+

    Jul 7, 2011
    Olathe
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    New jersey numbers were released. Fontas has a new number (now 3). Looks like he's coming back.
     
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