Dempsey is from a different era. The era and development path (club/HS to NCAA to MLS) that worked in the 90s and led to the lost generation in the 00s. I'm only talking about O23 players in MLS. These days, most prospects sign a 3-5 year deal as a HG at 16-18. If you have not broken out in MLS in 5 years, you are probably going to have a ceiling below the USMNT. Even the kids who go NCAA for a while and then come out at 19-20, have time to establish themselves. But late bloomers can still excel and get TAM deals (Long). You are just getting ruling out extremely marginal players who have not, as a group, had any kind of positive impact. Nor should they be expected to. The salary structure in MLS is crazy or unique; however you want to describe it. It makes league comparisons complicated because most MLS teams will have a 3-6 really good players. But the rest of the roster is players on much smaller wages. It just makes sense, the USMNT should be looking at the really good players in MLS, along with some really good younger players breaking through, and nobody else.
Where would Zuzi have categorized on this? He was a serviceable player for the USMNT, albeit unheralded.
I think that makes sense. Right now though, I think USSF is excluding those leagues completely in favor of MLS. I'd also argue the EC is ahead of MLS and the 2.Bund slightly behind. There is just so much money in English football that the EC has really advanced in quality of play. But besides that, it is not as easy to identify the best players in the EC, for example, as MLS. Most clubs have a consistent salary structure unlike MLS. In other words, there is no easy marker like a TAM contract to identify Holmes as any different than other CMs in the Championship. I do think transfer values can help. Not made up ones or estimates, but actual. For instance, Antonee Robinson was sold for $2.85MM and Lovitz was sold for $50K in cap space. Yet, one got one cap and the other like 7.
Argentina has been playing a reserve player from a world class training program. Are we so far ahead of Argentina? I would agree, you shouldn't have hard and fast rules. You should identify talent wherever it can help. But Gregg seems to have some for one type of player development path but not another. My rule would only help Gregg overcome his one biggest flaw so far. While he might miss a guy here or there, it would stop him from continuously calling in a dozen guys who aren't good enough. Even in his search for a Lovitz replacement he ignores EC players and reserve players (not youth players) and calls in a O23 non-TAM MLS player. Unlike the ones he set the whole System up on, this one (Gasper) was not good enough to get capped over Lovitz.
I am usually not that guy but seems like the silver bullet answer to squad selection deserves it's own thread.
The TAM system is new and never applied to Zusi. Zusi became one of the better players in MLS in 2011, when he was 24-25. Probably, the new deal he got after that year is equivalent to a TAM deal in 2019. So, he would have been in the pool if there was TAM in 2012. Zusi would have also been in the EPL in 2012 if MLS didn't pay him to stay in MLS. So, another bit of evidence to suggest he would have a contract that looks like Pomykal's or Long's in the current system.
RSL has had a great few years for the USMNT. They didn't really develop any of the 2017 U20 guys they had. One of those tried to switch to Honduras (?) another player has switched to Mexico. The only player that might come to something got out of there fast and went to Holland. RSL was touted as one doing things right. But their USL team is incredibly old, they constantly bench their youth players even when playing well. They seem to alienate their players or encourage poor behavior (all the RSL players were sent home from January camp in 2018 and most didn't dress in 2019). Well done.
I heard Lennon lost his spot to Herrera. Herrera should have been looked at over Lovitz. So funny how so many in media can't name another LB anywhere that is better than Lovitz when there are at least 5, probably more. I always liked Glad, but hard to say he is any better now than 3 years ago. RSL has had a habit of dropping all those players. At one point last year, I think Saucedo was clearly the highest in goals per ninety on the team but was routinely benched. RSL's record with and without Glad playing is night and day, yet he has been benched for long stretches. RSL is still better with youth than 18 other MLS teams probably, but that is not saying much. Like FCD, just when you think they have it they do something confounding.
I can’t wait until the phase when MLS clubs with dominate youth academies slaughter teams that don’t invest in youth 7-0.
Just have to always have a certain number of players in defensive positions. If an outside back or defensive mid moves into the attack someone else will have to drop back and cover their responsibilities until they move back. Adams, McKennie and Pomykal all cover a lot of ground and have good to great defense. I like Pomykal over Llegtget because I think he's better defensively and probably better offensively too.
Thanks - I agree that Adams, McKennie and Paxton cover a lot of ground. I think Morales does as well and in the single club game of Holmes that i really watched, he covers a lot too. It's hard for me to understand 6/8/10 when all three will have to be B2B and cover a horizontal zone, no?
Morales really doesn't. He's just agressive in his general area, but sometimes that leads to him getting beaten badly. Why he's suspect as a 6, unless you're bunkering. Same thing as an 8. He's not much of a playmaker. This is the main reason I think he struggles in a USNT shirt. He comes from teams who are worse than their opponents to one that's typically better. Those others I'd agree with. Ideally everybody would be rangy in a 3 man cm, swarm, force to's, go, and re-press if they lose it. But if the front 2 get beat it'd be nice to have a d-mid who can stop counters straight up the middle and go sideline-to-sideline to to slow the opponent down and allow his teammates to recover. That's where I like guys such as EPB or Otasowie there. Fast cb's w/ sufficient ball skills for a mid playing higher up the field. But Gregg prioritizes offense there because his philosophy is wack. So we have trouble winning 50/50's and that tissue paper center ripped thru. It's his cardinal sin right now.
it's fair that I view the USMNT more relative to WC teams than to the Hex and am more focused on how we compete against higher skilled teams - I think Morales is quite adept at this and has a far bigger range than Bradley/Trapp for sure (damning with faint praise as may be). I wouldn't rely on any of Adams, McKennie, Pomykal or Morales for top level playmaking but rather to be disruptive and create turnovers and space for Pulisic, Morris, Dest and one of Yedlin/ARobinson. I want them involved in the attack but mainly as supportive players/trailers who get overlooked by opponents. I saw the all-touch for Otasowie and he could be a very interesting piece. I think he views himself as a DM but if you combine him with Brooks at CB, that's pretty interesting to me. Right now, I think Brooks needs Long's speed next to him to cover his developmental areas but if Otasowie is as fast as he appeared, he has far far better possession and passing skills than Aaron. That would be a huge upgrade. If we wanted him in midfield, I'm not sure how he'd fit with Adams but love to look at it! Also, good luck trying to defend a corner kick when we can line up Brooks, McKennie, Otasowie and Pulisic (and Sargent who I think can be elusive and is tall enough) - we should always have a one-on-one advantage somewhere.
A lot of US fans are viscerally averse to the suggestion of Adams at right back. But if he gets up the field as a pseudo wing-back/rm then it actually maximizes his offense, whereas the 6 minimizes it. Can't get fw, when he does it exposes the US back line, and his strength is certainly not line splittling passes or selecting out of multiple options. He's best when he can go box-to-box and pick out one option. One of our signature games the last couple years was at Portugal when Williams was the 6, McKennie the 8, and Adams rb/wb. There was protection to the back-line, good ball-winning, and the US hit w/ speed and efficiency. Carved out quality chances on the road against the Euro champs, didn't get sliced open up the middle, or dominated possession-wise/positionally. That was pre Berhalter. Some are acting like it was exclusively his thing. And of course Adams played it for a year with NYRB and it was probably his best season there. You have Otasowie or EPB as the stay at home 6. And then the strong Brooks-Long partnership. The team would be tough to breakdown, counters would be snuffed out, and it would empower other players to get fw freely. They have a good enough combo of passing skills to advance the football to him, especially after they win it and the opponent is disorganized. Otasowie and EPB are Cameron types. It was a mistake between the Klinsmann and Arena eras not to employ him there regularly. Of course the conundrum of where to play Adams is resolving itself right now w/ Adams him not playing period. And who knows what he returns as. You need insurance policies. Arguably the biggest problem with the US the last several years in having such shambolic results was no plan b's let alone c's. I mean at one point we were down to our 8th rb on the depth chart. Attrition realistically happens.
I'm not sure I'm there with adams as a hybrid RB but one thing's for f***ing sure: I hate him there while we have a terrible, no-range DM manning the 6. If EPB (whom I think hasn't progressed at all) or Otasowie were strong DMs, I'm open to looking at moving Adams around but NFW on Trapp/Bradley or even Yueill. I also think that a 352 is our best lineup so I don't know if the hybrid works. FYI - if this interesting (particularly the bolded) tangent continues, we should find a new thread where it fits better.
That's fair but he was our best player at one of the youth tourneys so was hoping for a lot more. It certainly wasn't meant as a slag but I have him outside the USMNT pool right now.
People should take more note of just how Adams has been succeeding. In NY he had Sean Davis as a partner back up. When he joined Leipzig, they were playing a 3cb defense. Against Itlay with the Nats he had a 5 man back line. Don't be so sure he can handle the 6 with a 4 man back line which is what Egg will play.
But will he be good enough for Nagelsman's Leipzig? It's a different system. The team seems very strong at the moment so you'd think he would be ok. Fingers crossed. The USA team is not so strong.
something like this? ——-Sargent——-Weah———- —————Pulisic—————— ———Wes——--Adams———— Dest——————————-Yedlin ——Long—Brooks—Miazga——- —————Steffen——————— Bench: Horvath/??, Cannon/Robinson, Zimmerman/??, Morales/Otasowie, Reyna/Ledezma, Morris/??, Altidore/??
I have morales as the third disruptive midfielder and Pulisic and Morris up top. I may replace miazga if Otasowie is up to task to get even more speed and athleticism into the lineup and ARobinson instead of Yedlin (Dest swapping time the right) as I like ARobinson crosses. Dominant aerial team as well.