Coaching Philosophies and the Gregg Berhalter System

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Susaeta, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You can use summer day training to prepare for summer qualifiers in Central America.

    Otherwise, it's easy enough to practice under the lights during the summer.

    That's something any professional or national team player ought to be able to handle pretty easily.
     
  2. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    this is all about "what am i training for." training in heat and humidity gets less work done. if as you suggest we need to go play someplace hot and humid, world cup, qualifier, makes sense. but otherwise you want to maximize the work and the fitness benefit. colorado is actually best -- you come down to sea level a machine -- but california is reliably comfortable. weather being reasonable, we can then focus on training without regard to melting brains and dehydration.

    the idea is not to put them through an ordeal but rather maximize the work and the fitness.

    this is why the USOC has training centers in places like chula vista and colorado springs, and not miami or houston.

    i also think there are hints of regressive coddling in emphasizing travel time over a location where more work can get comfortably done. if you are that obsessed with travel time, schedule a road friendly for a change, camp in europe. europe in the early summer is temperate. then work their butts off.

    reality is for gold cup camp and whatnot the euros are often trickling in late from vacation.
     
  3. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    i think we are playing the Fed's game in trying to come up for them with some central location where we can both HQ and train. there is no sporting necessity whatsoever for the NT coach to have to go to the fed office, or for the team to work out in that city.

    but if we were picking a central training location the factors are usually seclusion, good weather, altitude training, not kissing up to the fed or making it easier travel on one segment of the team.

    personally i would be more interested in the technological tools and infrastructure placed at the coach's disposal than these corporate games. the very fact we are discussing fed bs as opposed to soccer ideas tells you it's already off the rails.
     
  4. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    You like to give a partial picture which can be irritating. Do you have his assists per 90' for USA by any chance? Why would you take a productive player like that and send him back to Higuain for development?

    Try again?
     
  5. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    with his old league numbers he would be interesting, in part because not much of anyone but Morris or Pulisic blows the doors off out wide, and RW sub is (or should be) open. Boyd hasn't really done a ton since his first game.

    but something similar could be said of Finlay. he had an assist in 2' in his second game. sounds good. but he went into a slump of several years, knee op, and then that looks like a small sample size years ago.

    that being said, i am of the "give em a chance" bent. we spend too much time reminding ourselves the good players can play -- an ego thing that doesn't move the ball downfield for the rest of the XI. what you really want to know is what else am i working with. and to iteratively pressure the roster until you have the 23 who show up and play well most of the time. we kind of assume our conclusion at the outset and then glacially reconsider.

    and then there also is that question of WHY HE DISAPPEARED. he was capped in camp cupcake on the back of club performance, got an assist, impressed enough he was brought back for qualifiers, played in the home game we won and not the road game we lost..........and then JK leaves him off thereafter. club game logs say he was right back playing club so he wasn't hurt.

    something happened. i don't know what but at least one candidate is that same pair of guatemala games is where pulisic debuts.

    fwiw soto is starting to mix in some first team Hannover minutes.
     
  6. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I wouldn't call up Finlay at this stage. HIs time was last cycle.
     
  7. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lets remember that in 2015 Klinsmann added Zardes, Morris, Wood, and Nagbe who were all under 25. In 2016 he added Acosta, Arriola, and of course Pulisic. He also brought back 21yo Green who scored 2 goals in 2016.

    Morris, Wood, Acosta, Arriola, Pulisic, and Green were the U23s fighting for camps with Nagbe, Zardes, and Finlay the U26s. I don't think it was much of a surprise that Finlay only got 3 caps.

    Klinsmann was fired in Nov 2016 and we have not seen Finlay since...
     
  8. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    I was listening to a podcast yesterday after the Philadelphia Eagles win over the Giants on MNF and many of the same themes arose as what we've seen here.

    The Eagles want to play a certain style of football (west-coast offense) but due to injuries and some bad personnel decisions, the players that they have aren't conducive to that style. Same thing with the defense and the systematic desire for man coverage while our DBs simply cannot do that against even marginal opponents.

    After struggling in the first half against a terrible football team, the Eagles finally adjusted their strategy to build around the guys they had rather than the system they prefer. This became even more important as the replacement guys on the field aren't elite so it's vital put them in situations where they can actually make plays. The Eagles outscored the Giants 20-0 in the second half, holding the Giants to 29 yards in the half.

    It was remarked that the same things was done in the Super Bowl run - they changed the game plan to put their replacement QB (all hail, big-dick Nick!) in situations in which he is best instead of keeping their beloved system.

    It is also reminiscent of the USMNT in that a fully-expected victory over a sub-par opponent doesn't really change the narrative that things need to change going forward......
     
  9. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #3084 juvechelsea, Dec 11, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
    re things changing going forward, the difference vs Canada was arguably a second AM ie Lletget instead of a second DM ie Roldan.

    plus addition by subtraction with anyone but bradley and trapp at DM.

    selection then reverted for cuba (roldan starting) who we simply overwhelmed.

    the canada game should support that change is needed -- as well as the more "hex" type games we lost like canada away and mexico home twice -- but we are like walking talking confirmation bias so who knows. i wouldn't be surprised if they spin the close of LoN group play as "it's working." lines up with cherrypicking the proverbial "road first 30" of the mexico game. yeah, but we lost both times. losing teams are the ones who talk about but we gave them a game for a while.

    just like you could spin the end of the semi round last time as "that was an anomaly" when the warning lights should be blinking bright red around you. if you are playing your starters -- and we typically do -- and you didn't run some gimmick tactics that failed -- off-color results should be taken at face value as "I need some changes" even if you overcome them. they are telling you something about formation or selection. the formation is too exposed. particular players are weak links. etc. etc.

    we have become this weird mix of a win confirms everything but a loss can't be taken so serious. if you play to win and act like results matter then losses demand consequences. conversely if this is an experiment, even if you brush aside results you should be iteratively culling players who make little or poor impressions.

    plain english i don't get settling on a set of players who aren't literally winning every game.
     
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  10. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #3085 juvechelsea, Dec 11, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
    the fact we had yedlin out there for cuba and ream for both the last two says we learned none of the backline lessons from canada away. and then on and on with roldan and lovitz and the other inexplicables.

    but basic coaching is you cull the people who cost you.
     
  11. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    TTS interviews Bushnell of Yahoo sports who attended annual meeting in Chicago of USSF.
    https://www.totalsoccershow.com/total-soccer-show-podcasts/

    It looks to me like there is a static system that is beginning to descend on US Soccer. I don't see that as helpful when it comes to the senior team. I don't even see it as helpful when it comes to youth altho there is certainly an argument for it.
     
  12. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Records (W-L-T) with various players since Couva (not including January games):

    Bradley or Trapp start: 8-9-3 (GD -2)

    Bradley or Trapp don't start: 4-1-2 (GD +17)

    Not including games against Caribbean nations that will not be in the Hex:

    Bradley or Trapp start: 6-9-3 (GD -12)

    Bradley or Trapp don't start: 2-1-2 (GD +6)
     
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  13. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    I do appreciate the data but respectfully, i'm not sure how useful this is without context on the opponent.

    Maybe it would be better to list ELO points +/- with them in or out as I think every game has one and it reflect the nature of the opponent.
     
  14. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I think the sample with Bradley and Trapp is big enough. Over two years and 20 games. If anything, the competition has generally been weak. The other sample is for context and to show how little we have played without those two players.

    The non-Bradley/Trapp includes games against Italy, Portugal, Canada, Ecuador, and Bolivia (with two more games against Cuba). That is acutally, on average, probably equivalent competition than Venezuela, Paraguay, Mexico (three times), England, Jamaica (twice), Panama, Canada, Colombia, Brazil, Peru, Curacao, Ireland, France.

    If the numbers were close, maybe tease things out more. But the GD numbers are stark and no amount of spin will get you to any conclusion that results with Trapp/Bradley at the #6 have been poor.

    Trapp/Bradley start and Adams doesn't start: 5-7-2 (GD -2)
     
  15. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    So I actually did this for this 30 match sample (I included Jan. camps):

    Trapp starts: 14 matches, -26 Elo points, -1.86/game
    Bradley starts: 9 matches, -39 Elo points, -4.33/game
    Neither start: 7 matches, +42 Elo points, +6.00/game

    I actually have the data for everybody. Anyone want to guess the most Elo points gained/lost per player?
     
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  16. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    thank you!

    those stats are illuminating.

    I’d go with morris
     
  17. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Morris is actually middle of the road.

    He's -1 Elo point over 10 starts, -0.1/game (the team is -0.77/game as a whole for the 30 games). He ranks 33rd out of 60 players in Elo points added per match.

    Though looking at players with 10 or more starts, Morris is the 2nd best (out of 11).
     
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  18. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    you’re setting up having people’s head explode. It’s Lovitz.
     
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  19. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Nah...
    But Lovitz is actually one of two players who are exactly net zero (Kellyn Acosta is the other), so that ranks just right ahead of Morris, 31 & 32 out of 60.

    Keep playing.
     
  20. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Adams played one game, I believe it was win over Ecuador. That should do it.

    How'd I do?
     
  21. Magikfute

    Magikfute Member

    Mar 9, 2001
    Lancaster, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gyasi Zardes has played in quite a few of our wins, especially in the Gold Cup which may have won him some Elo points...
     
  22. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    I also included the Sarachan era, so Adams started 9 matches. He rated a Plus 15. That ties for 6th with, get ready for it.....









    Corey Baird.
     
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  23. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Indeed.

    Gzasino Jar Jar Zardes is the player ahead of Morris when it comes to those with 10 or more starts.

    He has a +24 over his 12 starts the past two years.

    However, there are still two players ahead of him.
     
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  24. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Zardes probably ahead because of the Jan camp Morris missed with injury?
     
  25. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Ok, how about Tim Parker?

    p.s. edit: not sure if one of constraints is minimum x games?
     

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