Coaching Philosophies and the Gregg Berhalter System

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Susaeta, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it will eventually but I'm not sure it can right now on the road in CONCACAF with CONCACAF refs. I think right now we still need to rely on the more physical players. I'm hoping eventually we have more physical and athletic players than Mexico who match or exceed their skill.
     
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  2. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Our athletic players are clearly more skilled nowadays. Do you remember the Frankie step-over? Still makes me laugh (and I love Frankie).

    An open question is has our skill level improved as fast as the rest of the world? Conversely, I think we seen that other teams have improved their athleticism at a remarkable rate and that's offset one of our biggest historic advantage (the other being grit/determination that Berhalter seems to be willing to sacrifice on the alter of an attempt at possession play).
     
  3. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A great question which the easy answer is of course watch and see. The harder answer is we got worse against the rest for about two four year cycles but appear to have gained in the last few cycles but we won't know for sure for a few more years as they are just starting to break out on good teams in good leagues. I know I've missed on players before but can't remember so many at once ever before so I'm optimistic.
     
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  4. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    This only makes sense if they were given equal chances. That they were in competition for a spot in the 23 and one was picked. That is not the case. One was selected and handed multiple camps and caps. The other was called into camp once and given two substitute appearances.

    Holmes was on the GC roster, so it is not like he didn't show anything. You can't say he was called and didn't impress. The fact he was not called again is strange. But it isn't because "Roldan is keeping him off the roster". Roldan has been terrible. Berhalter is keeping him off the roster and has done the same with quite a few players for reason(s) other than talent or performance.

    Maybe it was an experiment to continue to give a hand picked group chance after chance to learn a complicated system that would dominate other national teams. But the hand picked group is just not good enough for that to work, if it can even work. Lovitz is almost on his second career, I think he will be out of soccer professionally this time next year. Roldan has been terrible. I doubt Trapp is playing in MLS regularly next year and might be retired by 2022. Same with Bradley. Baird, Lewis, Djorde will probably be on the bench in MLS or in USL in 2022.

    It was a seriously misguided experiment and it was conducted in a way to call into question whether Berhalter can evaluate talent at all.

    Brooks Lennon just sold for $300K and he is not good and wasn't starting for RSL. Keep that in mind when thinking about the fact that the player that just started the last game for the USMNT, who is under 30, at LB was sold for $50K. $50K in MLS money!!! Talent identification and evaluation is a weakness for Gregg unlike any other manager in world soccer I can think of. It is probably only luck and other people being involved that he has had what mediocre success he has had as a coach to date.
     
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  5. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    https://sbisoccer.com/2019/12/vela-zlatan-lodeiro-headline-the-sbi-mls-best-xi-for-2019

    Opara and Frei made this list.

    But when it comes to the NT, Guzan over Frei, Omar and Ream over Opara and Lichaj, Bradley over anyone else with a pulse. When we "go old" we don't even get that right. We pick nostalgia over league form. That's why I don't buy this is pure "MLS bias," it's a more insidious pecking order obsession tinged with nostalgia, or inertia, or name-brand-itis. Kids are picked on performance, if reticently. But the adults there is inertia behind the same names as before regardless how they play or whether they would even be the best choice of their age cohort. Thus you could be MLS Best XI to the press and if you're 30 and relatively uncapped you're done because we aren't shopping for new in that cohort even if in form. That might be defensible if we simply cut out players past an age. Or excluded old players going downhill. But we bring in old players living off rep but don't demand performance, and won't try players the same age who play better. Odd. Because if you were MLS-biased but not like partially stuck in 2014-18, you'd pick better MLS people, even if you brought in oldsters.

    And then with kids we seem form obsessed -- look at the Sargent roller coaster depending how club goes -- but once inside the castle Bradley can play however he wants in either club or country, and apparently who cares......
     
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  6. vexco

    vexco Member+

    Nov 2, 2013
    He's brought nothing to the USMNT but bad performances over 20ish caps. It's about time to put his national team career to sleep.
     
  7. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #3032 gunnerfan7, Dec 3, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
    Who? Do they post here, or is it just 3G? Roldan belongs in the same category as Lovitz, Baird, and Trapp. He is an indefensibly-bad callup, a waste of a spot, and should not be anywhere near this team.

    In about 2 dozen caps, Roldan has been a literal ghost: 99 percent of the time he's invisible, and when you do see him, he scares you.

    I cannot think of any games where he has looked *good*, only games that he is a non-factor, or bad, in. If someone can point to the caps in which he performs well, please let me know.

    If there are good reasons for his inclusion, I have not heard them. "He's not blocking Messi", isn't a good reason for inclusion.

    It's a reason, sure, but we may as well cap me too. I'm also "not blocking Messi", which is the usual response to 3G's worst roster choices.
     
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  8. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are you suggesting whatever committee that chooses players for that list choose players for the national team? I've seen plenty of lists and even all-star teams that I didn't agree with. Team by committee isn't one I'd choose to win.
     
  9. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not defending Roldan. I'm on record that I don't think he's very good and that Holmes should get called before him. There are a number of posters here who point out that he hustles the whole time. I don't care about hustle when you still make bad mistakes and are clearly out classed.
     
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  10. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's suggesting that Berhalter's list [and not just the MLS component} is not one chosen to win. That anyone with a pulse, a brain, eyes, and no material benefit in upholding the whims of that ugly committee known as Chicago House, has seen Opara superior to Gonzalez, Lichaj superior to Ream, Frei superior to Guzan. Heck, they would have seen Bedoya superior to Bradley, Lawrentowicz superior to Bradley, Canouse superior to Bradley. Heck, double heck, even old man Cameron can play that position better than does Bradley.
     
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  11. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    True. He just looks relatively good when "The Man" in the middle makes bad mistakes, is clearly out-classed, and thinks "hustle" is what you do only when there are 6.5 Million Bucks on the line
     
  12. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  13. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    Nah- All that does is make the applicant pool shorter. My bet is that the org still runs as if its mostly committee driven. Its steeped in a culture of getting input from a wide range of people and working toward consensus. That slows the hiring process significantly.
     
  14. AutoPenalti

    AutoPenalti Am I famous yet?

    Sep 26, 2011
    Coconut Creek
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    “The one thing I still don’t understand is this concept that people don’t want to move to Chicago,” Stewart said when asked by Yahoo Sports whether he was concerned the policy could eliminate good candidates. “Maybe it’s true, maybe it’s not true — I’ve never heard it to straight to me in the conversations I’ve had.”

    Now that’s some bulletproof logic.
     
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  15. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #3040 TOAzer, Dec 9, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
    I'll take that bet, and double it.
     
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  16. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I think it's more likely that the pay isn't enough.

    The same dude that quit and told them it wasn't worth moving to Chicago ... then promptly moved to New England. Or at least he's working there 8 months out of the year.

    I totally get the co-location thing. They want these coaches to work together, to plan together, to have input into the total plan for the USMNT and USYNT (and women's side as well). That will never happen as well remotely, and I suspect they've had coaches who use the distance to purposefully go their own way.

    If you want consistent coaching styles, there needs to be some level of integration, and co-location is a key.

    Now, whether that should be Chicago in the long run is a whole 'nother can of worms. But I think there's real benefit to Stewart, [insert GM], Berhalter, Kreis, Wicky, and whomever else they hire all being together on a veyr regular basis.
     
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  17. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Stewart creates a strawman to deflect attention. It isn't that nobody wants to move to Chicago. DVdB said that if you were going to have all the coaches in one place, Chicago makes no sense as you can't play there 6 months a year. It wasn't that he didn't like the weather, it is that the weather is not conducive to training.

    Have we ever had a Camp Cupcake in Chicago? Certainly, we aren't this year. Very few camps are held there at all for any age level. The whole thing is dumb. Now it comes out that they realize it is dumb and if they get anyone to move to Chicago, they will be moving again.

    If you had all the coaches in San Diego, Bradenton, Raleigh, LA, San Jose, it would make more sense. Maybe those places are too warm in the Summer. But you can go round and round on that and it just shows how silly the requirement is.

    Throw in lower pay than Division 1 college or MLS Assistant and no career path and it is part time. It isn't about Chicago.

    But it is also just ineptness and Stewart being slow with everything. He is still working on the org chart.
     
  18. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree, but I wouldn’t want to live in Chicago either. Honestly, it makes the most sense to me to put the HQ in Atlanta.

    -Successful MLS team
    -Busy airport with good location for international travel.
    -Warm weather year round.
    -Affordable and friendly environment.

    Dallas would be my second choice, followed up by Florida third, and California fourth. maybe KC sneaks in there too because of centrality and the national training center too.

    Chicago would probably be the last place I’d put the HQ.
     
  19. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dallas is the most central of those but as I suspect with Atlanta it's not warm all year round although the cold isn't that bad except in spots. Austin is actually a lot warmer in winter months but doesn't have an airport like Atlanta or Dallas. With so many players now in Europe and east coast site may be better although the point about too hot at time may apply in Florida but humidity might be the bad part. Of course that would help in being prepared for CONCACAF away games other than Mexico and Canada. Chicago is a poor choice because of both weather and expense. A lot of these coaches aren't making a fortune so that needs to be considered.
     
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  20. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    I think there are a lot of opinions without facts. How many currently work in Chicago? What are the current Chicago costs? How many other staff are you relocating? What do you actually want them to do on a day to day basis in the "office"? (I doubt its actually coaching- which is not in a given location)?

    It's easy to state they should just move HQ to Atlanta but its easier said than done if you don't have all those relevant facts
     
  21. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Funny, that of all the people, it is Bruce Arena that hit the nail on the head. They are running the NT like a club team and you can't do that. The question for 2020 is whether 2019 was an experiment they will abandon or if they will double down. The usual media types are a bit flummoxed by trying to choose between Arena and Gregg/USSF.

    Was it just an execution problem? Would it have failed if Gregg had chosen a better team last January? Not sure who he could have selected, but I guess there are other players in MLS to replace Roldan, Trapp, Lovitz, Zardes, Bradley, Lima, Arriola. Or was it always doomed when your team had to be 2/3rds players who came from Camp Cupcake? I think the latter, but they might think it was just bad luck or poor selection.

    Maybe they will change their positional profiles and select a new MLS core of 12-15 players. Or maybe they will just continue to simplify the offense, put emphasis on a press and set pieces, and look to establish competition at each spot on the roster. You know, run it like a national team.
     
  22. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Not really. Sounds like there is not enough room in the building now and there is no room for any of the dozen new coaches they need to hire. So, satellite office space will have to be found. At that point, you can move them all anywhere. Only Gregg and Wicky are in Chicago. Earnie is there, but his family is the Holland. Kate has maybe relocated already, but doubt Vladko has. All the other jobs are vacant.

    Move them all to Manhattan if you want to pay for it, or Alburqurque if you don't. It doesn't matter. They will fly to see their players, to camps, to ID showcases that almost always will be held somewhere else.
     
  23. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fact: Chicago Sucks!

    :)
     
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  24. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    If the space is full; and they are running out of space.. that seems to say they have lot more staff there than Gregg, Wicky, and Earnie. Office professionals, IT, HR, Marketing, assistants, analysts- I really don't know what the org structure and size looks like. I only vaguely know the bigger names. Who schedules matches? Who coordinates team travel logistics? Who does procurement?

    That's like saying a company should move its HQ bc their CEO, COO, and CMO are the only staff. It's an organization.

    I think people are making judgments at a birds eye view. Maybe its a small staff of less than 10

    According to their 990- they have about 1500 staff and 100 volunteers. How many of those are in Chicago now?
     
  25. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    You are getting in the weeds. Nobody is talking about moving the entire HQ.

    Earnie has said having all the coaches in the same workspace daily is important. Are you suggesting they need to be there to talk with the IT people? The sense Stewart gives is not that. It is that they all work collaboratively.

    All the coaches can work together anywhere that USSF wants them to. They will not save money by having them in Chicago, because there is no space there anyway. They can buy more space, but they could do that anywhere, couldn't they?

    Or is Gregg running into Joe from Accounting at the deli across the street and then taking the elevator important?

    The last four NT coaches were based in Southern California. Matches were scheduled, logistics were handled, marketing was done, players contacted. Bruce Arena was not needed in Chicago to do that. Do you really think that is necessary? What does Gregg know about any of that?

    Just defending every dumb decision has to be exhausting.
     

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