Well the reason you judge Dest off the CL/PSV/AZ-level matches is quite obvious: he doesn't defend at all in most matches Ajax plays. They are the matches that mirror the biggest US matches. How he plays against FC Emmen doesn't really tell you much about how he will perform for the US in a match that means anything. It's hard to evaluate defensive abilities when you are constantly the way better team. I never made a contention the US has better fullbacks. The point is quite simple: how can you get the best out of Dest in the US system? And what matches does he fit in best? In a big match where the US is being attacked constantly, at this point, I'd think it's a tough decision on Cannon vs. Dest at RB. In matches where the US is even/clearly better, Dest is an automatic starter at RB.
I want to like Yedlin as he plays hard, he's pacy, experienced and is one of our few veteran players in a big league. I think if he could get in 3-4 good crosses or key passes a game I'd come around on him. Watch Cannon with the US. He's not flashy but he does a lot of one touch into space passes or one touch crosses into the 18 that are difficult to defend because of how quickly he gets them there.
I’ll take your word for it. I agree that he’s more of a wide player than central but I think he can def play there if needed. I’d start him there over Roldan all day every day.
When you have some cat named Lovitz playing LB for you, I don't know how we can say this kid is not good enough defensively to play that spot until a better option comes along. FFS people give yer heads a shake.
To be fair, just case Lovitz has no business being in the national team doesn’t mean we should set our bar as low as 3G.
Keeping possession is also an important aspect of defense because the opposition can't score when they don't have the ball. Dest is much better at that. Also, lower level dutch teams aren't that different from MLS teams.
Agree on first point. Dest is very good at keeping possession especially in tight spaces. He's incredibly composed in those situations. Disagree on second: Every metric I've seen (538, transfermarkt, budget) say the bottom half of the Eredivisie are worse than the average MLS team. VVV/FC Emmen/Fortuna/etc. are on the same level as FC Cincy. And Ajax is so much better than everyone else in the league that there is basically no defending needed.
This is a much more cogent discussion than our earlier ones. Having said that, in a USMNT context evaluating Dest off of CL/PSV/etc. competition is a data point in and of itself that tells us all we need to know about his defending, how we can get the best out of Dest in the US system and what matches he fits in best. We agree Dest is an automatic starter at RB, outside of your loosely defined parameter of matches that mean anything and if I read you correctly, matches wherein the US is not the superior team. I would contend that it is even more imperative in those matches that we play Dest at fullback, (potentially on the left), for all the same reasons you draw a contrary conclusions. First, Dest actually plays against CL/PSV,etc. competition. Every other possible FB outside of Yedlin never faces that caliber of competition, at all. So, I reject out of hand that any other FB in our pool, or the likes of Tim Ream, would be a superior option at fullback on the basis that Dest has not been a lights out defender against such competition and I contend that Yedlin has shown the exact same weaknesses until very recently and offers a negative contribution in possession, which I further contend, becomes much more valuable against worthy opponents, not less, but more on that later. So to put a finer point on the idea that any of these MLS fullbacks, or Robinson would be a superior option at fullback, on the basis of their supposedly superior defensive capabilities, what evidence have you? In a scenario tomorrow where we play an important game against a better opponent, I will take the fullback with experience actually playing such opponents in such circumstances, over the unproven commodities that have only shown the ability to be good defensively against sub par, second rate domestic counterparts. Moreover, by the same powers of observation that you use to find Dest wanting defensively against elite competition, I contend that the likes of Cannon, Lima, Ream, Lovitz et al, would be beaten like rented mules against the same elite competition in important games and offer nothing at all in possession. Secondly, you devalue the obvious superiority in every other facet of the game that Dest has over his USMNT counterparts in the elite opponent/important game scenarios, I emphasize its value in such circumstances. Who is going to provide an outlet from all the pressure we are soaking up? Who is going to spring the few breaks we are relying on? Who is going to give us some form of competence in breaking the press when our opponent is camped out in our third. Dest. Finally some of this may come down to differences in the philosophy of how one builds a team, specifically a national team. I think “the system” is stupid. I think having a competent system is necessary. Regardless, I think any system must be built around and tailored to the very best players available and specifically in our scenario, to those who will actually help us to qualify and perform at a World Cup. In a yanks abroad discussion (where many of your takes are more sensible), Dest is an unproven young prospect with many question marks, fighting for a true place in a very good Ajax side. With definite flaws in his game and areas to improve upon, not least of which the defensive side of his game. In a USMNT discussion Dest is amongst our 5 best players, (CP, WM, ZS, TA, ?) right now. A core member of the team that should be built around. Put those players where they belong and fit the lesser jigsaw pieces around them. Tailor the tactics and the system to get the most out of them and lets debate the merits, strengths and weaknesses of how the lesser players and the tactics can best serve those players in making the whole greater than the sum of its parts. This would be in contrast to making Adams a RB, playing McKinnie as a 10, the idea of having two separate teams for weak vs strong opponents, Dest as a winger, building the team around second rate players and/or old vets who are not what they once were, etc. It’s seems self evident to me that Dest is a fullback. Dest is our best fullback. The team needs stability and consistency and building any team back to front is the generally accepted convention. We should probably focus the bigsoccer brain trust on what to do with the tactics and myriad of average players with different attributes that need to be filled in around the truly superior players at our disposal like Dest.
I can dig it... but if he can improve defensively then I still think wing-back is the position then gets the most value-added. Cannon can also play the midfield and has shown he can score in the MLS. I am intrigued with the idea of having Dest, Yedlin and Cannon on the field at the same time... It would be a very speedy lineup... especially when you consider Pulisic up front and Adams in the middle. Just wish one of our RBs was a natural lefty instead.
Gloster, Vines, Bello, Sousa, and Gasper are all left-footed. ----------------FW-------------- -------LW-------------------Yedlin---- -----------CM-----Dest----- ----------------DM---- ---LB-----------------------Cannon--- -----------Backline-------
What is the rationale for starting Yedlin over any of the actual wingers? Dest I can get at least from the viewpoint he would be an improvement over Morris, Areola, Boyd, Holmes, etc. That doesn’t apply to Yedlin though... does it?
As long as you guys place Dest in the starting lineup - whenever healthy and available - in every competitive match this cycle (2022), next cycle (2026), and the following cycle (2030), you are welcome to play him wherever you want. I would suggest that you not play him in goal, but I'll leave you to figure that out. I realize Dest is only 19, but he's already our best player, and by a fairly decent margin. As you must understand, we only have a few players who can play (at a reasonably high level), players we should try to connect with a promising though relatively small group of younger, just-emerging players. I agree that we should try get our faster players on the field at the same time. Happily, Dest combines speed of foot with speed of thought. The $64 million question is whether we can begin to produce players of Dest's quality here at home. While we're waiting for an answer, better let me have an option on Dest for the 2034 cycle.
When functionally used as a winger, Yedlin has shown adroitness in creating goals. I'd like to see Morris moved to striker.
Dest has been a so-so defender at international level. It's reasonable to consider alternatives at right-back, no matter his club career.
MLS defenders aren't actually getting much chance to play against domestic attackers. We get to see Cannon etc play against a ton of full CONCACAF internationals and Argentinean players who would walk into 9/10 international teams.
That’s a fair point and I stand corrected. On the other hand, it doesn’t really detract from the overriding argument. CONCACAF level attackers and second rate Argentinians are not on par with the elite CL level talent and first rate Argentinians, that that the person I was replying to was using as the standard to judge Dest against.
Every other defender available to us at FB has been a so-so defender and none of them have either the projected upside to improve, or offer even a fraction of what Dest does in possession. It’s unreasonable to consider alternatives at right back on the false premise of Dest supposedly being a liability defensively. Regardless of anyone’s club careers. Considering alternatives for other rational reasons such as; he might contribute more higher up the pitch, be more beneficial on the left, etc. is perfectly sensible and well worth discussing. Pretending the clearly inferior options available to us are on par is a non starter.
I love Dest, but we might wanna pump the brakes a bit. He’s played about a half season in the Eredivisie, twice against PSV, and three Champions League matches against teams that aren’t from Cyprus and Greece. It isn’t like he’s got some extended track record against elite talent. Love what he brings to the table, but some of you might be getting out over your skis a bit.
How is getting out over you skis on Dest? He is one of the best outside backs we have. Right now. Not with any improvement. He is a clear starter in my book today.