New Politics Thread

Discussion in 'AC Milan' started by Falc, May 18, 2016.

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  1. totti fan

    totti fan Red Card

    Jun 24, 2010
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    I had a successful career at a large multinational bank for many many years. I got out because it didn't suit my value set. My current career choice is consistent with my belief system.
     
  2. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

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    #17102 Gilbertsson, Nov 21, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
    You know that I am familiar with history, migrations, settlements from medieval times. Many people would say: "Romanov dynasty was great, we meant something in that period, Queen Catherine the Great - who was German in fact and majority of architecture was made by German architects in Petersburg, Moscow. But people lived in poor conditions. Ordinary peasants. But some people adore the shiny reflections of other families. I observe myself mostly. As you can see, I mostly observe what's good for me. I don't fall easy on promises, populism, because politics is just another job occupation where they want to ensure their lives, not lives of other people. They all try to use world crisis, if they can: 1929., 2008 with all sorts of recessions in between.

    They are proud with Catherine the Great and German architects who built Petersburg and Moscow. Western part of Ukraine was part of Austrian - Hungarian Monarchy. They consider themselves differently compared to those in East and Central Ukraine. They even consider themselves as Ruthenians, Rusyns, with Greek - Catholic religion, basically ex - Orthodox Christians.

    I can find hundreds of people who had a great time in Habsburg Monarchy, varieties of Austrian Kingdoms, affiliations, Republic of Venice, Republic of Ragusa. If you visit Bosnia, you will find people who had great time in Ottoman Empire (ancestors had Ottoman titles, travels to Istanbul as representatives, while Christians had different experiences). Also, Muslims had a bad time with Republic of Venice, Habsburg Monarchy...all understandable to me, because I place myself in all possible positions. That's why you need to place yourself in other military boots, not only in socialist ones. But you write about the general, wide commonwealth in socialism, which is not true. This was in 20th century and before the 20th century. But, so what. Time goes by, we need to adapt in new era, not dreaming about some nostalgic old times.

    Figures from your video usually describe the materialistic goods: caviar, jobs, education that provides nicely paid jobs. You really think that those three figures have university degree? Anatoliy seems to have 4 classes of elementary school.:D

    Also, you avoid to answer on some crucial questions. Who came after the socialism-communism collapsed in 1989? Were they newly established people who came from capitalist countries, or they were just ex-socialists.

    You also forgot to mention the current state of Belarus, Moldova, Albania, Ukraine and majority of other ex-Soviet countries with eternal leaders with evident origin in past system.

    I only see the difference in Estonia, Latvia, Azerbaijan, maybe Lithuania. Only they evolved compared with previous decades. All others remained on the same level.

    Who made the privatisation of state companies? New people, or those who gave up from socialism?

    You like to take out the fragments, switching in geographical sense. I talked about the confiscations in Yugoslavia mostly. In Soviet Union people also had wealthy lives, there was a lot of merchants, workers who designed leather, fabrics, cotton, fruit, vegetable grocers. Ukrainian city of Odessa was famous because multi-cultural societies. People came from several European countries to establish themselves.

    You like to pull out only what is suitable for your own world view. If someone has different evidences, you try to make his opinion as less important.

    I accept your state, where people lived well in socialism. Because it's true, if you obeyed the system, if your ancestors died and fought for socialism, it was a good time for them. But, there is the other side of medal. Huge migrations of people from ex-socialist countries: 1945, 1970's, 2008.

    Even convinced socialists say today: "We failed, we couldn't resist because we wanted materialistic goods". Many of them feel ashamed because of their roles, they rather hide that period. In their CV's, you can see only job experience since 1990, 1992. And they finished universities in 1970's. What was their occupation in 70's, 80's?
     
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  3. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

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    They had time to trade for 14 years. Cuba is trading since 1959. Venezuela since 2002. year, when Chavez came in the office. So many years of trading. At the end - nothing. Estonia, Latvia, Azerbaijan, Lithuania, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Poland progressed in only 10,15 years, after they joined in EU. It's not the same, compared with.
     
  4. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
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    Wow, the Dems looked terrible in heir debate of one another. The lunatics have taken over the asylum!
     
  5. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

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    #17105 Gilbertsson, Nov 21, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
    I really respect those three figures from your video. I really believe that they had great time in the past when socialism was installed. Have I said anything wrongly about them? Do I insult them, or you? I see that you used bad language words. Why? We are just having an ordinary academic discussion. I am not angry on you, even though we have differences. That's social intelligence, when I don't want to insult you and throwing non-academic stones and bricks on anyone. My parents said to me, that I should behave nicely, because this opens much more doors.

    Many people don't consider education as something important. There are plenty of different industries, where you don't need education and you can earn a lot of money: flower industry, food production, restaurants, fashion industry, cleaning cemeteries and sending photos with clean cemeteries to their clients, dog walking industry, personal buyer for clients who don't have time to buy things.

    Someone who orders high end fabrics, he just needs workers, he will sell polo t-shirts for 500 USD, suits for 3000 USD, shirts for 800 USD. He doesn't care about the education, or public health institutions. He will pay private dentist, private spa, private plastic surgeon so that he improves his lips, teeth, cheekbones.

    Some people have the value for transport industry, when they drive oversized trucks from Sydney to Perth, in arctic parts of Canada, Alaska, collecting king sized crabs in Alaskan waters....and I understand them if they refuse to write essays, papers, abstracts for 5,6 years and pay the tuition for doing that. Many people don't care about learning things. They just say: "Why should I spend 5,6 years in classrooms, if I can earn 50 USD for 4 pralines 3x3 cm, made out of high quality chocolate?"

    You extend one feeling, mostly your feeling to vast majority. You said, that you worked in a bank. This can't be more capitalist than it is. Probably, all clients were not the same. Some clients paid loans, credits for 30 years their small departments and maybe 10 years for his Range Rover SUV. Many people lost their homes, cars, companies, because they maybe gained heart or brain seizure, lost their jobs and no one paid the debts.

    The first rule of social intelligence is good adaptation. Be similar to majority, do not be so sincere in every moment. These advising sentences we gain since our childhood.

    You are too impressed with ideology, figure leaders, who stand on the stage and promise milk and honey to his voters. I don't remember any politician, who said: "Things won't be better, it would be the same, or worse if you choose me". I am not impressed with them, they say things because of their own purpose, their own cause. I don't see that people fight for harvesting vegetables on those long and wide fields, but I see that people like to fight in "thinking" institutions, positions.

    You say negative things about materialistic goods, but it all ends on that: good house, good department, seaside house, good city quarter, good school, good university, high income, good health institution, nice car, nice yacht, nice food....many people from Russia, Ukraine left these countries and they placed their wealth in London for example. Even though their ancestors had high roles in communism.

    Even spiritual, religious institutions ask you: "How high was your donation in this month?" Because we buy spiritual values, blessings with materialistic goods.

    We can't write the set of values and extend them on entire mankind. If you have university degree, than you know how one research essay, abstract looks: statistics, percents, where we create conclusions, based on research, investigation, opinions, scientific evidences, experiments. Even that conclusion isn't the correct one with 100%.

    No one wants to live in a trailer park, having mobile home, working 2,3 jobs, mostly part-time jobs, live in a department where you pay every month to your owner, but we live in a rent - a - everything world. Ideologies have nothing to do with that. Creators of ideologies aim for materialistic values. Figures from your videos are not quoting the sentences of socialist leaders, nothing spiritual in that video....only a lady with materialistic smartphone.:D
     
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  6. Pietro Calcio

    Pietro Calcio Member+

    Jul 28, 2007
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    Yup I know.... he just needs to wrap it up a bit ...

    Lil bit...lil bit ...
     
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  7. Pietro Calcio

    Pietro Calcio Member+

    Jul 28, 2007
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    What's that? Being a perpetual contrarian stalking men online in various web platforms daily while eating tons of carbs growing moobs? Ok....I can buy that.

    So what is the news with that impossible burger you were asking vegan gains about?
     
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  8. Deleted User x

    Deleted User x Member+

    Mar 21, 2006
  9. Deleted User x

    Deleted User x Member+

    Mar 21, 2006

    Is this supposed to be a serious comment or a joke?
     
  10. La Magica

    La Magica Member+

    Aug 1, 2011
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    #17110 La Magica, Nov 21, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019


    beyond burger.jpg

    Look to the money for the answer. All their propaganda isn't selling the chemical shit burger.

    Just another quick pump and dump. Look into who funded game changers and then follow the money to the spin off vegan money making schemes. They catch out the uneducated like carbs pass through you fan who cannot critically think. They dont give two shits about environment or peoples health.

    pump and dump.jpg
     
  11. Deleted User x

    Deleted User x Member+

    Mar 21, 2006
    Farmland, homes, jewellery and art just to name a few. Lenin and Trotsky had millions in their Swiss bank accounts not long after the Soviet takeover. Stalin eventually confiscated Trotsky's fortune after he had him killed.
    The Soviet government sold wheat abroad while it's own citizens were starving to death. So there was plenty that was confiscated in Russia and it's neighbors.
     
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  12. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

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    It's not a joke. Many people, if we observe the global scene, don't finish universities. They rather stay on high school level and work harder and more paid jobs. If we observe all working class occupations, it's not hard to find people only with elementary school. People rather invest in earning, private business: wall painting, installation company, electromechanics....some working class jobs are paid well if you consider the knowledge, hands and driving costs. They can earn close to 300 USD in maybe 2 hours.
     
  13. Deleted User x

    Deleted User x Member+

    Mar 21, 2006
    I didn't think you were serious because the jobs you listed were quite hilarious. And you completely left out the trades. People earn great incomes in construction. I know sprinkler fitters who make over $100K a year.

    And what about independent business owners? There are many examples of successful business owners who don't have post-secondary.
     
  14. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

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    #17114 Gilbertsson, Nov 21, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
    Construction workers earn a lot, if they are supervisors. Ordinary construction worker who works under orders don't earn too much I think. There is a risk of health problems, heavy lifting. In Europe, (EU), no one wants to work as construction worker.

    Cashier jobs are not so good to earn money. They don't work only that, warehouse is included, lifting things....Some industries are lucrative and easy to handle, work: flower, pastry, specialized coctail makers, coffee makers, car mechanics are paid well, they can invent car failures and buy the cheapest things, while they represent them as high quality, they can also take out the original parts and replace non-original ones.

    I mentioned independent business owners: wall painters, people who work with hardwood floors, ceramics.

    Fruit, vegetable picking is not lucrative at all. Garden maintenance also isn't...same as pool cleaning.
    Maintenance, janitor jobs, cleaning jobs are not good for earning.

    It's important to find something that is hard to learn, hard to make with expensive sales...only those jobs are lucrative. One flower rose costs 3-4 USD I think. Candle industry, people use candles for many things: relaxation in bathroom, spa centres, cemeteries, holidays, birthdays.

    If someone makes plastic glasses, bottles, it can also be lucrative, because you can recycle it.

    Bricklayers....it's questionable....it depends in which state he works?

    Flower industry is very strong in Turkey and Netherlands. So, others make orders from them.

    Quality cheese makers, especially sheep cheese, prosciutto, dry saussages, bacon...if it has regional certificate, proofs about being genuine, you can earn a lot of money. Good whole prosciutto costs close to 2000 USD....product called ombola, or ombolo is highly appreciated.

    Cosmetical industry is also lucrative, make up artists, hairstylists, nail artists, tatoo makers...you don't need university degree to do that.

    Fashion, food, construction, cosmetics, furniture makers, where you need to make orders for specific design, flower inudstry, spa industry (himalayan salt, organic soap production, lavander products)....home decoration: nice pillows, curtains...carpets.

    Good industries are: future prediction, palm reading, reiki, energy cleaning, chakra adjustment, healing, placing hands on your forehead, tarot cards, ASMR....those things are lucrative. If you place those skills on Youtube, you can have a lot of followers, clients.

    Photography is also interesting, easy to carry the camera around, but too many people make photos...so it's not so lucrative. You have to be National Geographic photography material. Everything less isn't lucrative.

    They all earn more than majority of fields in social sciences, human sciences...

    Natural sciences and computer science is paid much higher.

    If I have to choose something, I would pick flower industry, or maybe home decoration...I don't invest so much of physical energy. You need few acres of field maybe and that's all.

    I would avoid construction, because I would lose health there quickly. For USA, Canada, Australia, it's ok to go with amateur acting, plenty of theater troops, you just need to be eccentric, use weird clothes, green pullower, red trousers, poetic hat, fake glasses if you see well, to be more intellectual....presence in reality shows can lauch people in earning. He gets celebrity status. There are plenty naive people who adore idols, stars.

    For many sports you don't need universities, but I doubt than anyone here has serious talents for sports.:D I would rather pick sports, instead of university. After sports career, I would finish university anyway.

    Such industries should be ethical, made with fairtrade, where you don't use cheap labour force, where you don't destroy ecological system, animals, mangrove trees, or trees in general, air, water. Because, no one likes to live in poisoned environment, where you can't get organic products.
     
  15. Deleted User x

    Deleted User x Member+

    Mar 21, 2006
    Think bigger my friend, much, much bigger.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/10/10-...ionaire-and-billionaire-college-dropouts.html

    Of course these are the famous examples, but the world is full of successful entrepreneurs who bypassed higher learning. There are many paths to financial success. Not only through higher education.

    Two icons in Ontario are Frank Stronach and Vittorio De Zen. A high school drop out and an elementary school drop out respectively. Imagine over the years how many university graduates these two men gave jobs to. From engineers to lawyers to accountants etc. Highly educated people working for the uneducated. Some people have an entrepreneurial spirit and vision that can't be taught.
     
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  16. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

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    #17116 Gilbertsson, Nov 21, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
    I meant mostly on jobs where people don't see any university, college option. Where you make your hand dirty mostly during working time and where people exhaust their spine and joints. Of course, we can mention hundreds of examples where people achieved something great without university.
    We could name examples of actors, self-taught musicians, dancers, painters....but I focused myself mostly on working class, production....

    Behind majority of private achievements, there are also shadows.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Group_Technologies

    If you have private ties, connections, business becomes successful. It's not only about personal imagination. Someone who doesn't have ties, other competitors destroy him, if they unite together. For example, if we have 3 companies on the market. Two of them agree that they will reduce the prices of the goods, so that they remove new player off the market. New player can't reduce the prices, because he is new. So, these two remain together on top. The similar is with football clubs, or sports clubs in general. Bigger club invests in you, they overpay some player so that you get several millions more. They give you loaned players, they let you few matches, so that you can win. But when some major clubs dislike some other minor club, they agree, that they won't send any player there on loan. They will never buy anyone from that club. So, that club becomes destroyed financially.

    Business is often gray area, a lot of dishonesty, fraud, so that minor group of people earn more. Workers often work more, they exhaust themselves, low salaries, 2,3 jobs they work. General fraud and cheating are present everywhere since early childhood.

    Many social media networks don't have success, they failed to grove higher. Some social networks are protected. In some cases, the state helps to failed companies, in many other, they don't want to help. Plenty of reasons. It's enough to have ties for a solid business. When you get state concourses based on ties and when companies do everything, but they fail to get the concourse.

    Educated people who work hard for uneducated people - fact. That's why I started to write about the people who don't care about the education, even in basic labour. Someone who drives oversized truck, earns more than university lecturer. Because there are not many people who can drive oversized truck for 10,15 hours. That's why it's better to work something that is hard and rare on the market. Someone who started to work like that, he can achieve a lot of savings, while students work in coffee bars, trying to earn some money for their tuition. He is out of potential to create savings in 5,6 years, compared to one truck driver. And truck driver doesn't pay the tuition for himself. So, when someone earns so much in one month, he really doesn't care about university.

    User Totti Fan mentioned feudal system, which was cruel. Even such system gave advantages for some people. Personal family experience. But I accept that a lot of people suffered. I can't glorify feudal system, just because it was suitable for someone. I can't choose, in which family I will be born. It's also silly to defend something histerically and promoting something as the peak of excellence. There are no widely recognized great system which embraces the commonwealth of majority of people. Some systems prevail and 3,4 generations of the same family can have completely different point of view, because they try to adapt...be more similar to majority so that you don't become hurt - chameleon, sunflowers...maybe not nice, but human weakness is ready for many negative things. We can't lift humanity as something gracious and special. But, do we have changes compared with feudal system? No. Today, we don't have butlers, maids, servants....today we have hospitality management, concierge, tourism worker....at the end, it's still something where people serve, assist, subordinate themselves. Such occupations are in much higher extent, compared with people / workers who are not subordinated. They are only covered with nicer occupation names.

    For business, everyone needs to have ties, connections on the market, in politics. Personal imagination, enthusiasm can help to some degree, but it's not something primary. Executives who have success, they rather like to accent the imagination, enthusiasm, God's assistance....like he was the chosen one, to have his company.

    Genius people who invented things, often ended as objects of fraud, where someone else stole their inventions.
     
  17. totti fan

    totti fan Red Card

    Jun 24, 2010
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    The things you are referring to above happen in our capitalist world today on a daily basis. None of this has anything to BTW with the lived experiences recounted in the vid I posted.
     
  18. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
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    A friend I know who is close to Pelosi in San Francisco told me that both she and Adam Schiff are pissed off that the impeachment hearings didn't prove more facts that the president did any crimes or misdemeanors. Can you imagine being mad that your president isn't a crook? Total Losers!
     
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  19. totti fan

    totti fan Red Card

    Jun 24, 2010
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    You're not really engaging with what they are saying, mostly you're rambling on about a lot of irrelevant nonsense. It actually is insulting. I doubt you would repeat such to their faces.
     
  20. totti fan

    totti fan Red Card

    Jun 24, 2010
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    And most young people can't afford to buy houses in major cities. Everything is completely fvcked. This is not something to be celebrated.

    What do you think will happen to society if we keep diminishing the importance of education.
     
  21. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Club:
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    Their problem was that there were no facts to begin with. One does not go on a fishing expedition hoping to find a crime. It was claiming he was guilty then trying to pin something on him to make him guilty. This is not how justice is suppose to work.
     
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  22. Deleted User x

    Deleted User x Member+

    Mar 21, 2006

    People can't afford homes in the major cities because the prices have skyrocketed. When I bought my home the cost to income ratio was 5x. Today it's 12x. I don't get what your argument is.
     
  23. falvo

    falvo Member+

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    #17123 falvo, Nov 22, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
    Remembering JFK! RIP!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  24. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
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    #17124 falvo, Nov 22, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
    Yeah he was saying she may not want to press for a vote on impeachment and will continue blaming the GOP knowing that may be an easier way out .
     
  25. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    My parents took me, 9 months old, along the streets of DC to see the JFK's casket carried on a military caisson.

    [​IMG]
     

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