Nations League A, Camp 2, Canada/Cuba, Nov. 15/19

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Dander, Oct 16, 2019.

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  1. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Oh god. Stop with the "story arc" that Earnie/Gregg are brave/ballsy/audacious in trying some positive new approach.

    What the USMNT has been is pragmatic and disciplined. When we are the better team, we're pro-active and have had little problem with bunkering minnows. Just wishing that we're better doesn't make us better.

    Next, France and other successful teams have shown us that focusing on possession and attractive soccer isn't synonymous with winning even at the highest level. Being great defensively and picking the spots is far more important.

    Finally, i think it's very very interesting that you've mentioned several times that BS has been calling for this proactive approach. Where do you get this? Not that there hasn't been select calls for an attractive/attacking style from posters like bsky22 and THHF but the thought that it's been an overwhelming chorus? The only chorus I hear is the one that is really upset with the USSF right now......

    More curiously, you're a new poster who just joined this year and yet you're referencing BS posts historically. I'm guessing you'll state that you're simply a long-time lurker who just decide to join one day and post heavily with the same "trust in Berhalter - he's brave to be so pro-active! It's the only way we'll ever be competitive." mentality post after post.
     
  2. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Looking at this game, I'd be pretty focused on getting as many offensive dead balls as we can as we should have elite aerial players in McKennie, Brooks, Morales and Long. i think Sargent plays smaller than his actual height but he's a battler that has to be accounted for. Maybe Dest could take the kicks.
     
  3. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    my pet theory is we peaked 2002 and last were at a high point 2010 when we advanced from group undefeated and then were beaten in overtime in the knockout. there is an argument to be made that the lost talent generation was already beginning and papered over by JK's dual national efforts in the 2014 cycle, which were not replicated for 2018. the team then cratered as its strength was not tactics but that brief personnel infusion. we nonetheless speak of that period as though he infused some new tactical ethos GB is building on, even though players basically said there were hardly any tactics at all.

    though stereotypically depicted for inaccurate snob purposes as longball whackers, 2002 was actually very technical.....lewis, reyna, mathis, o'brien, beasley, landon. 2010 while counter in nature was a la leicester. dempsey, landon, beasley, bradley, clark (for all the crap that got talked about him, he could run circles around most of this bunch), gringo, benny.

    if you look at it like, after 2010 the team hollowed out in the middle, and we only fixed it one cycle with about 6-10 dual nationals who then aged as people do, which has not been repeated, you get a different view of what might be important ie talent development. people want to change how we play, imposing aesthetic preferences. but whether we win or lose probably has more to do with how individuals compare to the prior accumulations of mid quality we have not since duplicated, despite claims we are going to go teach our kids to be more technical. my impression is the opposite happened.

    i also think if people step back and notice that hiring JK we went to the world cup and emerged with a single win, and then went to hell, that puts things in proper context. it was the group of death but we didn't win a game after our first one. viewed through these lenses one would question the value of the post 2010 project that has well and truly kicked in under GB. the harder we try on purpose to change the worse it gets. the focus on development and youth technique has been lost. we have become skilled at creating domestiques prepared to hustle around while someone else creates.

    which wanders up to my next point which is that handing development to the clubs is promoting this creation of hustle players. MLS is buying its 10s and 9s. we may need them but MLS for its purposes is content to import using the DP and international slot rules. if you did develop a 10 he would sit or be re-booted as an 8 or 6. and then when they cumulatively get together, ooops, who is the 10 here? there is no bradenton where we try to begin sorting that out. if you had bradenton someone each 2 years would at least be pressed into becoming the 10, and trained at it in residence for a couple years.
     
  4. cyberthoth

    cyberthoth Member+

    Nashville SC
    Aug 7, 2000
    Nashville, TN
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not quite. I'm arguing that wins and multiple championship appearances are more important that Whoscored ratings, fan voting, Playstation ratings, fantasy ratings, and whatever other non-field con-competition related ratings you decide to put out there.
     
  5. vexco

    vexco Member+

    Nov 2, 2013
    Morris and Zardes as wide mids just wouldn't work for possession if you're wanting to spread it out and knock it around. No one's asking for 3 DM's. Just give a midfield 3 of Morales, McKennie and Yuiell if I had to choose out of this roster.

    The issue with your concept is that without Brooks, I think you're left wanting for passing...basically anywhere on the field.
     
  6. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    just answer the questions then:
    • are they elite?
    • Are they top quartile?
    • Are they top third?
    • If they're both elite, why hasn't that translated to the USMNT given we've built around Bradley's game and added Roldan's leadership as well?
    • Is everyone who part of those teams elite? There are no average starters on those two teams?
     
  7. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    I was impressed that he was able to keep Brooks, Yedlin, and Dest off the field. If I were Dest and found out I Berhalter was starting Lima over me, I grab an uber to the airport, head back Amsterdam and file my one time switch. I'd also ask Brooks, Yedlin, Mckennie and Sargent if I should get a few ubers.
     
  8. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    But if wins and season/playoff performance is what you're all about, don't you then have to consider captaining a US side to the worst failure in its history, as well as missing the MLS Playoffs (virtually impossible) with the highest payroll in the league?

    Both of those events happened more recently than all but one of your seasons...
     
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  9. pirozhok

    pirozhok Member+

    United States
    Jul 20, 2007
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good news is Michael "The Great" Bradley not playing 2morrow, i say we got a chance to squeeze past through inept CAN, we just need to keep kicking the ball hard toward their goal, and one or two of them will go thru.
     
  10. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    oh, i expect him to start in MB's absence, but yueill has no NT G or A yet, including he managed to be in that cuba game and not get an assist. i think we could have subbed on ballboys and they would have been dangerous that game.

    mckennie couldn't score or create on canada last time. morales would fix defensive issues but we need offense just as much.

    i am convinced that people subconsciously buy into GB's ideas even as they moan about players like MB. Yueill is like Trapp, touch player with modest production in MLS, 3G 4A, soccer IQ but doesn't get stuck in. a couple goals and assists is not the gamebreaker you are looking for. Who. Is. Going. To. Create. this is the guy to pass the ball sideways.

    what people are missing is teams do not take us seriously and are high pressing because y'all seem disinterested in putting anyone out there who can take someone on and hit a crisp throughball pass. or that has foot speed.
     
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  11. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    It's important to note the club role.

    Roldan is a DM, playing with another DM for Seattle. He's asked to be a different guy for the USMNT.

    I'd like to see him play his club position.

    Bradley plays with Delgado as support with TFC, not as the lone DM.
     
  12. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    i would like to see Roldan without Bradley/Trapp but we give plenty of support to Bradley as a regista. plenty.
     
  13. mannycoon

    mannycoon Member

    May 13, 2009
    Roldan I think was a clearly above average MLS player this year, likely in the top quartile, maybe higher. But it was as a midfielder worker/grinder, not as an attacker. That is also a position where we have a lot of depth (McKennie/Morales). I would rather we play two of this type of player rather than one and a Bradley/Trapp/Yueill soft non-defending DM. I do agree his NT play hasn't been as good, but that is true for a lot of our guys.

    On Whoscored there were 4 American in the top 40 of MLS this year. Hollingshead, Morris, Roldan and Altidore. This passes the sniff test for me as far as the better Americans in MLS this year. Lovitz over Hollingshead is crazytown, he's not even young.

    Bradley on the other hand was pretty much average and a strong case could be he wasn't the best American CM on his own team. And overall there were a lot of American players roughly in his tier this year. He is also kind of a tricky player to build around because while is quite good a few things and he is quite bad at others; I think more well rounded players would easier to work with in the limited time frame the national team gets.
     
  14. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    fair enough. Roldan takes a lot of shit here but I think we need to relook at every midfielder with a fresh eye once (please dear god, don't let it be "if") we stop compensating for Bradley/trapp. I don't think that Roldan is elite (near all-star/Best XI) however.
     
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  15. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Team accomplishments are more important, in evaluating individual players, than evaluations of individual players?

    I guess we can drop Yuiell, Arriola, Baird, Long, Trapp, Zardes, Lovitz, Johnson, Cannon, Lima, Lletget, Turner for not coming anywhere near the Cup. On the European side, what have Brooks, Pulisic, McKennie, Yedlin, Steffan, Boyd, Ream, Morales, Dest, and Sargent ever won?

    Why even bring in Adams, he didn't win anything last year.

    And we definitely need to bring in Frei, Delgado, Morrow, Shipp, and Mullins.

    But wait, our coach never won anything. He should be replaced with Schmetzer. But I'm sure Man United would outbid us for the guy who won two MLS Cups.
     
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  16. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is it a conspiracy if the 'leaders' are just incompetent (less than .500 win % in MLS or trashing an MLS team in Philly) and have egos that don't allow them to see reality?
     
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  17. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't know if I want an 'above average' MLS player on the USMNT. Wreaks of mediocrity.
     
  18. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We saw Roldan and Acosta v Martinique during the B team GC2017. There is a reason that Arena never played him after that start. It was the same underwhelming performance that we have seen in the 17 caps since that first cap.

    Roldan reminds me of the typical very good low-major basketball player. Very good at the low major level where he has several attributes where he is above average, but does not do anything well enough to provide any impact at a higher level.
     
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  19. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    It's also a matter of not just having talent, but having the talent properly distributed.

    If you got 4 good players, one in attack, one in central midfield, one as winger, and one in defense, that's a lot better than having 7 good players, all but one in central midfield/RB.

    The 2014 cycle we had several decent CMs, so at times we had up to four of them on the field (Jones, Bradley, Mix, Bedoya, Beckerman, Morales, Williams, Torres, Holden).

    This 2022 cycle we have a wealth of RBs: Yedlin, Cannon, Dest, Lima, Moore.
     
  20. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]
    Aside from Arriola it's questionable whether the rest should even get call ups...

    This I wouldn't mind... although I think it's time to move on from Guzan.
     
  21. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT

    No we don't.

    Yedlin is the only legit EPL starter week in/week out
    Dest is a fantastic 19 yr old young prospect but he got a long way to go
    Moore is a Liga 2 bench warmer
    Cannon and Lima needs to show more than MLS level fullbacks

    At this time, Yedlin is your starting RB and Dest is his backup. Go find a LB or bring down one of the LW to LB to fill the void.
     
  22. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Mo Wiebe and Curly Doyle got together with straight gurl Suzanne Collins sitting in for Larry Gass, after the game @ BMO field which we lost 2-0.

    It's kinda interesting to watch the vid which was a hot take on the game. I'd say they were unfair to Pulisic - he went on a tear for club after this game.

    Otherwise I think they do a good job of vicariously venting the fan's anger with this program.

    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019...y-decisions-facing-canada-ahead-usmnt-rematch
     
  23. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    The LB situation is dire. Wouldn't Villafaña be better than Lovitz? How about Garza?

    Even the weakest of the five guys I mentioned at RB (Moore) looks better than any of our LB options, IMO.

    BTW, Moore just played 90 w/Tenerife and didn't do badly.
     
  24. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT


    It wouldn't be too crazy to try Ariola at LB and see what he can do. At least he got some speed to burn.
     
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  25. Stevie Blue

    Stevie Blue Member

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Aug 10, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Believe it or not, I am on my way to the airport to fly to Orlando for the game. Things looked a lot better when I booked this trip. Hopefully, it will be a memorable one. Hopefully for a good reason and not a bad one.
     
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