we've repeatedly started lovitz - ARobinson is deserved of a spot to compete with lovitz. Given his age and athleticism, tie goes to the younger/faster player.
I'm not as familiar with the U23s but here's the makeup for the camp in Spain. 16 players from MLS (67%) 8 players from Europe (33%) Anyone notice a consistency in the numbers here for both the senior and junior teams? Nothing to see here. ps, I'd note that this camp is in Europe and that MLS is in off-season. I wonder if we'll hear about how trans-atlantic flights should limit the pool to those who don't have to travel.
llanez lol mix lol lol green lol lol lol I mean just pick random players its easier lol. stop picking players from comments by people you follow on twitter.
you are right there is nothing to see here but if you do just know our president has been taken over by the lizard people and aliens will be attacking very soon.
Here's the roster released today: MLS: 15 (65%) Major League: 7 (30%) Other: 1 (4%) MLS Brad Guzan (Atlanta United FC; 62/0), Sean Johnson (New York City FC; 8/0), Matt Turner (New England Revolution; 0/0) Reggie Cannon (FC Dallas; 9/0), Nick Lima (San Jose Earthquakes; 9/0), Aaron Long (New York Red Bulls; 14/2), Daniel Lovitz (Montreal Impact/CAN; 12/0), Walker Zimmerman (LAFC; 11/2) Sebastian Lletget (LA Galaxy; 12/2), Cristian Roldan (Seattle Sounders FC; 18/0), Wil Trapp (Columbus Crew SC; 20/0), Jackson Yueill (San Jose Earthquakes; 4/0) Paul Arriola (D.C. United; 30/5), Jordan Morris (Seattle Sounders FC; 37/7), Gyasi Zardes (Columbus Crew SC; 54/10) Non-MLS John Brooks (Wolfsburg/GER; 37/3), Sergiño Dest (Ajax/NED; 2/0), DeAndre Yedlin (Newcastle United/ENG; 60/0), Weston McKennie (Schalke/GER; 17/6), Alfredo Morales (Fortuna Düsseldorf/GER; 14/0), Josh Sargent (Werder Bremen/GER; 11/3), Tim Ream (Fulham/ENG; 38/1), Tyler Boyd (Besiktas/TUR; 8/2),
Fulham should be with the "other", so it's more: MLS: 15 (65%) Major League: 6 (26%) Other: 2 (9%) Yep, MLS-heavy. But Pulisic, Steffen, Adams, Weah are injured, and we all know those four would be there otherwise, raising he Top 10 Euro league to 43%.
I was trying to be consistent with before but I think it was Boyd that I had in major league (even though he's been poor recently and doesn't deserve to play over Morris - maybe this weekend's goal is a catalyst). I'll say again, I don't put much confidence in any single number but you have to admit that the totality and consistency of the number is telling us something. Perhaps they'd send home other players not from MLS (Morales & Boyd). lastly, our pool doesn't justify having less than 50% not in MLS. MLS shouldn't be zero but a consistent 2/3 over the entire year (outside of Cupcake) is absurd.
We have some guys with the U-23 though, like Sabbi, Cappis, Ledezma, Robinson and CCV. Pulisic, Adams, Weah, Steffen are injured/near-injured. I'm just glad Brooks is not broken. Frankly, beyond Holmes, Green and Miazga, I'm ok with the roster. Gall is not playing enough in a very weak league, Lichaj is looking meh, Johnson is injured too (and old), Cameron is slow (and old) now, Chandler is a bencher and I can see why NT managers don't trust him, EPB is not doing well, Novakovich can't score, neither can Siebatcheu, nor Wright, and Wood is only getting garbage minutes and looking, well, like garbage. Aronjo barely plays (although he's doing good), Mix is in the process of moving, Terrence is scoring in a third division, Williams is not even playing in Cyprus, Shaq finally got a game in the Segunda and looked ok but I don't see him starting often, and Lynden Gooch got himself benched, now has disappeared (injured?) from his third division team. I don't see who else people want Egg to call from Europe. As I said, it boils down to three guys, and Holmes is not looking good, so I'd say it's just the absence of Green and Miazga that bothers me.
moved You are of course welcome to your opinion but here are starters: Pulisic (who actually may not be an auto starter) McKennie Steffen Morales Yedlin (we know he can play at a higher level than MLS, we don't know that at all with Cannon and Lima) Here are players returning from injury who are major league starters Adams Brooks Weah Players who are major league rotational players Dest Chandler Sargent Johnson (returning from injury) Players whose ceiling are far higher than part of the MLS roster chosen (repeatedly) ARobinson Richards Ledesma Llanez Reyna Players who aren't worse than part of the MLS roster chosen (repeatedly) Miazga Green Holmes Sabbi Horvath AronJo CCV Alvarado Lichaj Amon (injured) Williams Wood There's a long list of players that haven't gotten a fair chance while we've continued to bring on the MLS chaff to TERRIBLE EFFECT. If we were playing even decent, you might have an argument but we're not and a lot of that is Berhalter's MLS bias.
From previous post: You are of course welcome to your opinion but here are starters: Pulisic (who actually may not be an auto starter) injured McKennie there Steffen injured Morales there Yedlin (we know he can play at a higher level than MLS, we don't know that at all with Cannon and Lima) there Here are players returning from injury who are major league starters Adams injured Brooks there Weah injured Players who are major league rotational players Dest there Chandler bencher who does not belong in the NT imo Sargent there Johnson (returning from injury) injured Players whose ceiling are far higher than part of the MLS roster chosen (repeatedly) ARobinson U23 Richards U23 Ledesma U23 (it's LedeZma) Llanez U20 Reyna U17 Players who aren't worse than part of the MLS roster chosen (repeatedly) Miazga big miss Green miss Holmes (miss) Sabbi U23 Horvath bencher AronJo open to him returning if stays healthy CCV U23 Alvarado not making the squad Lichaj looking subpar Amon (injured) Williams not playing, possibly injured Wood 45' played entire season ---------- Since I'm not for rushing U-xx kids into the main team, unlike many here who want the kids to save our skin this Hex, I'm fine with not calling most of those guys. You're free to disagree, but just remember all the times we promoted kids to the main ream and they flopped in games that mattered. Also, I'm not for calling guys who don't play. Aronjo is one who is looking good and if he remains healthy for other 2 months and keeps showing something, then it's time to call him. Miazga, Green, Holmes = we agree, they should be there. Although I'm not upset about Holmes, I just don't see it. But I understand if others miss him. Chandler is the only real bone of contention here. He's been demoted to the bench mainly because he keeps getting injured, IMO. Otherwise, he's been solid with his club. But I don't want him anywhere close to the NT.
weah is a major league starter? since when? he has never started regularly for a team in a top league. love all the youth players who apparently are studs but for some reandom reason can't get matches? that makes no sense. Also having a 'ceiling' of anything shouldn't get someone on the national team they actually have to do something.
"There's a preference - it's deserved because they fit better with the system " this got 1 vote. My guess is, the mods can probably see which handle Gregg Berhalter uses.
Because its either he dosent care or he was poor 6 years ago....... right? Oh that seems like Chandler waving his hands in the air like a giddy child after his team scored in the bottom left.
Once again, the argument against using more-talented, younger players is an extremely poornone given the present rosters, the pool, and recent history. We have a roster with a large number of awful MLS players that we ALL KNOW are not good enough in Trapp, Lovitz, Zardes, and Roldan. 4/23 spots are complete wastes of space. 4/20 field players. We have Bradley, who has taken up almost all of the important minutes this cycle, after being used every single game last cycle. Long, who blocks the way for the much younger Miazga and CCV, despite poor play for club and country, getting opportunities because of proximity. Baird gets multiple caps for no reason at all. McKenzie gets a callup, because you may as well, yet no callup for U20 standout Richards, who looks 1,000 times better and is younger. "Remember all the times we promoted the kids and they flopped" implies that you can give examples of that happening. When did that happen? It sure as hell hasn't happened under Berhalter, it didn't happen under Arena, Sarachan played like 6 Friendlies (managing better results than Berhalter), and JK rarely experimented in tournaments. But boy, I sure remember Cuova. I sure remember escaping Central America with 2 fortunate ties against Panama and Honduras. I know Berhalter's tenure, which has been a failure in every respect with the notable exception of recruiting Dest (and nobody else).
Actually you're right, we almost never play youngsters in actual tournaments. Not Bradley, not Arena, not Klinsmann, and now not Berhalter. We play young ones only in friendlies, unlike other teams. And it was one of the things that drove Klinsmann critics nuts that he kept playing the same old guys without ever preparing replacements, not in actual competitive games. Time flies. It was 10 years ago that we played a team with a few youngsters in a Gold Cup final, and got trashed 5-0 by Mexico. The guys 23 and under were Robbie Rogers, Stu Holden, and Sam Cronin in that final. Charlie Davies was 23 when he scored that goal against Mexico (2009 quals), and looked fine, although couldn't finish the game. Klinsi gave Danny Williams a shot in the game in Honduras, he was still 23 at the time, and it didn't work, he got replaced early in the second. We lost that one, 2-1. In the 2015 Gold Cup Klinsi took his biggest risk: Brooks and Alvarado as the CB pair. I remember being one of the few praising Klinsmann for it, because most people were mad at him choosing such an inexperienced pair. I was happy that finally JK was using youngsters (both were 22 at the time). In the end, the BigSoccer crowd was right, and we had our worst Gold Cup tournament since there are no guests allowed. In the 2017 Gold Cup Arena played Morris (who scored 3), the 21 year old Miazga (who scored 1) and the 21 year olf Kellyn Acosta. Cristian Roldan (22) played the Martinique game, didn't look particularly impressive. Paul Arriola (22) had plenty of minutes, didn't do much with them. Funny but I think Arena in his short tenure tried more young guys than JK did in his last three years. But it must not have worked at all, everybody hated what Arena was doing. And now Berhalter, since Sarachan only had friendlies. We don't have a big history playing young guys, and when we have done so, it's more often than not that it's ended badly, with the fans flaming the coaches for doing it.
I remember Arena playing Donovan and Beasley in WC2002. I remember Klinsmann playing Brooks, Yedlin, and Green in WC2014. IIRC, all 3 had less than 5 caps each before WC2014. Klinsmann also took 17yo Pulisic to Copa100 and built a 3-4-1-2 system around Puli and handed him the keys 3 months later at the start of the HEX.
JK gave Munich 1860 castoff Bobby Wood playing time. He put Yedlin in as a supersub in a World Cup. Julian Green and John Brooks scored against Belgium and Ghana. And that's off the top of my head without looking at ages. Bruce Arena 2.0 used old lineups, especially making use of his LAG guys, and (most notably) Zusi. It's that lack of rest for old players that cost us in Cuova. But even "keep-it-simple-stupid" Bruce Arena started Christian Pulisic right away, when he was barely 17 and with a handful of Dortmund minutes. And you'll note the fact that CP played and scored/assisted more in his first year with the NT than he did in his first 3 years at Dortmund... Because you don't just look at production, you look at relative skill. Bob Bradley took Jozy Altidore and Micheal Bradley to the 2010 World Cup, giving both plenty of caps in the run-up. Looking at Wikipedia, Jozy had 23 appearances between 17-20 years old in the run up to the 2010 World Cup. A time, as I'm sure you've forgotten, when Jozy was stinking up the Spanish 2nd division, Turkish 1st, and EPL. Meanwhile, we can't even consider looking at 18-19 year old guys playing pro ball in the Dutch 2nd division. I mean, Christ, you're not even trying. Doesn't mean every young player worked. Robbie Findley for example. But historically it's the opposite of your characterization, if anything.
In JK's 2nd cycle competitive matches: 2015 Gold Cup: Alvarado, Zardes, Garza, Corona, Morales 2015 WCQ: Miazga, Nagbe, Wood, Morris 2016 WCQ: Birnbaum, Pulisic, Finlay 2016 Copa100: 2016 WCQ: Acosta, Arriola, Stanko 2016 HEX: Gooch 16 young players introduced to competitive matches in the 2nd cycle!
@Suyuntuy - is it fair to say that you voted for the "There's absolutely no preference" in the poll that started this thread given that you think 2/3 of every roster should be MLS?
CCV is a young centerback with potential, playing in a good league. His strength is tackling IMO and we could use that, particularly in CONCACAF. It's not a position of need however. Mix is a interesting guy whose skillset fits into a position of need. Many posters here say that one needs to get first team minutes - well, he got them in leading a team to the Asian Championship League where his team acquitted themselves. Now he's in (beautiful) Tromso, Norway, where I hope to watch him play live and then buy him a beer next time I'm there. Do I think they're saviors? Nope, I'm not even saying they're good enough to make our squad consistently but we're playing terribly and we need to look at all options. Question for you: what did you answer in the poll above?
I think there is a bias in favor of MLS for fringe players, but for the most part these are guys who aren't going to be real difference makers one way or another. Ideally we would have neither a MLS mediocrity nor a European second division mediocrity playing an important role in the squad. That said, players from either group should be good enough to beat the likes our CONCACAF opponents, Canada beat us rolling out more and worse MLS players. It's also important to separate Gregg's personal biases from league bias. Guys like Zardes, Trapp and Lovitz he clearly rates higher than he should even relative to other MLS players. Lovitz over Hollingshead for example shows that even within MLS Gregg has some unconventional preferences. Trapp/Bradley seems to primarily be about his ridiculous misguided system more than whether or not they are in MLS.
The idea that everyone Berhalter misses is "fringe" or "not going to make a difference", is a complete and utter fallacy. For one, we have widely publicized and acute injury problems throughout the team. Just this camp: Our GK in Steffan is hurt. We have an injury-troubled CB in Brooks just now coming back. Our best CDM in Adams is hurt. Our best player and winger Pulisic is hurt. And our injury-prone striker Altidore is out again. What do you do when the MLS players that Berhalter clings to, or the handful of European-based players he deigns to select, go out of form or are found wanting at the International level? Lletget got hurt in WCQ, and has been hurt multiple times. He goes down/sucks, and all of a sudden it MATTERS A LOT that Roldan is behind him and not someone like Holmes or Green! Josh Sargent foes invisible in games sometimes. Now you look to the bench, or look to start 2 forwards, or 1 forward and 2 wingers, and it is suddenly crucial that you are looking at Gyasi Zardes. And, instead of looking at Gall or Sabbi, you wasted time with Baird. The 23-man roster is the cream of the crop. Under Beerholder, he doesn't even fill up an entire Starting XI of the best players, then fills in behind with garbage.
If our roster filler can't be difference makers in MLS or European second divisions they aren't going to be difference makers on the national team. At best they will be useful filler. If we need a sub to come in and make a real impact, I don't want it to be Zardes or Baird or Sabbi or Gall. More concerning with Berhalter is that he can't get the big things right. If he can't get Pulisic, McKennie, Steffen, Yedlin, etc... to beat Canada that is much bigger problem than whatever unremarkable roster filler he picks. Trapp is problematic not because he's MLS, but because he's a bad player picked to fill a need of a bad, ill fitting "system". Lovitz is problematic because he's lacking even compared to other MLS players. Whether Zimmerman or Miazga is the choice as a backup CB or whether Lletget is picked over Holmes is relatively trivial in comparison.