ACC 2019

it was a hard play but I don't think it was a foul on either player. 50/50 ball and both had their eye on the ball. both got their at the same time. unfortunate the gk was hurt. that's a big blow for Virginia going into the NCAA's. probably keeps their reputation alive of being the best team to never win the national championship

 

If someone can find video of the collision, I'd love to see it. I watched the game and saw it then, and the replay, and my perception of it apparently was different than some others' perceptions.

 

Well, clearly the ref agreed with you. I just think that if Pinto had leapt into a field player like that on a 50/50 ball she would have been called. That it was against a keeper seems especially egregious.

Obviously my perception is clouded, being a UVa fan and all, but I find myself hoping that someone breaks Pinto's leg in a 50/50 ball. And the only ever person I've ever wanted injured, ever, in 45 years of being a multi-sport fan, is Grayson Allen.

Maybe I'll cool down later -- I still haven't written my game report -- but the more I look I at the play, the worse it looks to me.

 

I dunno. Ivory is trying to play the ball, Pinto is the one leading with her head.

Pinto basically misses the ball with her head, it's at the waist between Pinto and Ivory. If Pinto had been able to make the play and headed it higher, we probably wouldn't be having this convo.

 

It was a good no call, IMO. Pinto didn't "leap into" the keeper; she was clearly trying to head the ball, was looking at the ball, and I don't think she saw Ivory. In other words, it seemed like inadvertent contact. Unfortunate, to be sure, but inadvertent. I thought the referee was excellent in the match, all things considered, and especially given the intensity of play. He did a good job. Ivory will surely be playing in the NCAA unless she's got a broken jaw or somesuch. If she's got a concussion, she might not play in the first game, but should be back for game two, I would think--and UVA probably won't need her in the first game. I also doubt Ivory would have stopped the winning goal. Impossible to know, but it was a good strike and well-placed.

 

Were you on your high horse when McClernon ran through the back of a Vtech player earlier this season and tore her acl? Shes as dirty as they come, but I'm sure that was ok, right?
Are all Virginia fans as classy as you? Wishing a kid a broken leg. You're an asshole.

 

Inadvertent, sure. But if you reach for a ball and miss and clip your opponent's ankle, that's a foul, even if inadvertent.

 

Totally disagree regarding the "defenseless" claim and red card assertion on this play. I actually think the ref got it right despite the fact that I also think UNC generally gets away with running through players and other similar fouls.

Both players have a right to challenge for the ball. The goalkeeper can use her hands and usually wrecks the attacker in situations like this. In this case the GK tried to catch the ball. Wrong choice. How are goal keepers taught to challenge for balls in the air in the box? Most keepers I've seen at almost every level come out with a knee bent at a minimum.

It is terrible that she is injured but the NC player was simply trying to head the ball in the goal and actually got to the ball first.

 

Totally agree! McClernon is physical and goes too far at times to the point of endangering opponents. She is fortunate she plays for UVA because if she was on another team I believe she would be carded more and miss games due to her fouls.

I also believe that there is something very sick about wishing harm upon a college player. Passion for your team is one thing but going to the point of hoping someone breaks an opponent's leg is seriously wrong.

 

I don't remember it. Who was it who got hurt?

 

They really dont. but we will agree to disagree. If you saw the FSU game. was Gorzak not challenging for the ball ? She got a straight red card and only avoided one because they was really no contact.

This play is going to split opinion so i will leave it there. I am devastated for Laurel Ivory. Season over for her.

Whatever people think, thats the biggest takeaway for me. Result is meaningless to me in that context.

 

Gray. There was no foul. Gray braced for contact and her knee buckled. really unfortunate. You can find plays where McL crosses the line, but thats not one of them

 

That was a hellava collision--two trains hitting! It's terrible that Ivory got hurt so bad. I was just hoping that UNC could survive the match without that kind of injury-- like Russo's broken leg last year. I wonder whether Pinto got a concussion along with Ivory's broken jaw. My daughter had to quit from concussions. She hated to stop. It used to amuse me to hear guys mocking soccer as "girls' kickball"--yeah, full contact kickball! Two great teams today!

By the way, is it just me in my ignorance, or has anyone else noticed a lot more arm grabbing, pulling, pushing, and wrestling in the women's game now, college and pro--or am I just watching more closely? I remember when they had to stop players from using their hands on defense in basketball.

 

Referee was awful today. Inconsistent, swayed by the home crowd and indecisive.

 

Thanks, val, for the video, it was the slowed down version I was thinking of and the video had it. It looks like Ivory had hands touching the ball before Pinto hit her. I'm not a ref, and I'd be interested in what the Ref's Forum has to say if they get asked, but I believe it's a foul and cardable if charging into another player is reckless whether you get the ball (including first) or not.

I think it is a close call, and I don't criticize the ref for not making a call, but I think the better call would have been a yellow for Pinto.

 

So here's another general question I have for the forum: it seems to me that when I started watching soccer 20 years ago (I never played), protecting the keeper from contact was a bigger deal -- and now I hear comments like both the keeper and an opposing player have an equal right to the ball--has that idea changed? And so has the punishment changed?

 

i get your desire to be PC, but i dont see how you can say

"I don't criticize the ref for not making a call, but I think the better call would have been a yellow for Pinto"

To me, that means you do criticize the ref for a non call and you think its more than just a foul, but a cardable one. That play is the definition of reckless. There in no intent to hurt, but thats irrelevant. The comments talking about a right to challenge for the ball are also somewhat off. You dont have right to challenge in a reckless manner. The fact that the ref gave no foul at all and did not deem it necessary to even look at the monitor is a disgrace. On friday, they gave a straight red card for an incident with the GK that they reviewed and decided it was not even a foul as there was minor contact that the player tried to avoid.

The inconsistency of the referees at this level of play is far too great. Finesse, passing teams want ref who does not allow grabbing, tackling from behind and overly physical play. UNC press from minute one and roll in a whole line of 6 to keep pressing. If the ref is going to think plays like that are not even fouls, then its very hard to beat them. without resorting to similar actions and hoping to not get whistled.

I just hope Ivory is ok, but i fear her season is over and that is a crying shame.

 

Well, obviously I was a bit pissed, and I did post in the ref forum. I got three responses and they all pretty much said that it was a 50/50 ball and didn't see anything wrong with the challenge. Now, I have been around BS for a while and I don't know the guys who responded. The refs who I know enough to respect have not weighed in.

The one inference I received was that protecting the keeper only applies to balls in the air.

It just seems to me that if that had a field player involved in that 50/50 ball, it would still be a reckless challenge. Pinto didn't get the ball and crushed the player in front of her. I really don't see how this is any different than a slide tackle where the player tried to play the ball, missed and got the player. That's a foul. Why is this any different?

 

Not saying that at all. I said they play extremely reckless at times because of the mentality they play with. You see straight red on men’s side all the time sliding studs up. Most of them aren’t intentional but rather trying to get to the ball first but you just can’t do it nowadays. Play that happened at Stanford last year would have been straight red every single time in men’s game. It doesn’t matter whether intentional or unintentional at that point. Pinto went for the ball for sure, but she didn’t get it, and got Ivory’s face instead. Should have been yellow for Pinto for reasons we should all know by now

 

(1) Excellent championship game, both teams really going after it, a lot of high quality play, some blunders as well. Carolina clearly had the better of it the first half, more even in the second. UNC showed more creativity with the ball, created more opportunities, but UVA is very good, dangerous, the game could have gone either way. Hope they do not have to meet again until the championship.

(2) Surprisingly large number of UVA fans in Cary. Kudos for supporting your team.

(3) Someone else who deserves mention is Rachel Jones. Seems like she is being overlooked, and maybe that's inevitable with Russo and Pinot and Fox around, but she is showing a lot of skill, can make things happen, is becoming an increasingly dangerous scoring threat.

(4) I don't purport to know the rules that well but long have been under the impression that tie goes in favor of the goalkeeper, that the goalkeeper is like the other-football quarterback in that vulnerability is recognized and other players are supposed to avoid harm whenever possible. Pinto is not reckless, certainly put herself at as much risk as the goalkeeper, but it looks like she was at fault.

(5) Yes, Carolina plays an aggressive style, always has, but in 20+ years of watching them I've never thought they were more physically dangerous than other teams. In fact, it often has seemed just the opposite as teams with lesser talent, speed have resorted to bullying to keep close to UNC. Carolina certainly has been willing to match other teams when they get physical but that is not part of their game plan.

(6) And, yes, the game is getting more physical. Too much grabbing, pushing, shoving. It looks like a player has a breakaway and they get repeatedly bumped, knocked off balance. Would like to see a cleaner game.

(7) Please keep in mind that these are 18, 19-year old athletes doing their best in a fast game in which they sometimes will make mistakes. I don't recall seeing anyone who just seemed to be a dirty player, trying to hurt someone else. Let's be careful about criticizing young athletes when they are trying hard but mess up. Try to restrain yourself even if you've developed a dislike for particular player's style. Even suggesting you wish someone to be injured is something you will regret later.

(8) I like Ru Mucherera, like watching her play, am impressed by her improvement this year. I expect she suffers from the same issue as the big center in basketball who gets pushed and shoved constantly near the basket, no foul called, then gets called for a little touch on some guard driving by. Because Ru is big enough and strong enough to endure a good bit of contact, referees may be less likely to call fouls when she gets pushed, then she does something that to her does not seem much different and she gets a foul called. Give her credit, though, she's much less likely to run over someone this year, has displayed a lot more skill, has become a real threat to score. It would be nice if no player ever protested a call, just got up and went about their business.

 

People often see the same game differently

1. A good game influenced heavily by poor refereeing. Very inconsistent and made mistakes for both teams. However overall his interpretation of the rules favored UNCs style of play more. I dont think UNC showed much creativity with the ball. Fox was dangerous off the dribble, but often lacked the final ball, Russo has a cannon for a shot and we saw that a couple of times. UNC hit long balls into the channel and then try and lock in the press. Not creative to me, but super effective and hard to play against.

4. Pinto is not reckless, but that was a reckless play. It happens but usually it has consequences.

5/6 By nature, if you play a high pressing game, you will be seen as aggressive. Yesterday UNC managed to stop UVA breaking the press on several occasion by grabbing, holding and fouling. Its part of the game, but the ref has to set a tone. Yesterday he failed. The foul he called on McCool as she entered the UNC box was a head scratcher. He had many of those. I have no complaints about how UNC play, its up to teams to figure it out and beat it.

8. Muchurera is clearly a fan favorite for whatever reason.

 

Funny thing -- to me since I didn't have a team I was rooting for -- on the foul in the box called on McCool. I heard the whistle and thought the ref was going to call a PK since I didn't see how McCool committed a foul. When the ref called it the other way, I concluded that he blew his whistle and then realized it would be a PK and didn't want to call that. But he had to call something, so he called the foul on McCool. Quite creative, I thought.

 

had not entertained that thought. Now you mention it, given the way he called the game, that is entirely possible !! Thank you.

 

I didn't think of that either!

I like his explanation better.