REAL MADRID vs REAL BETIS I La Liga Jornada 12 I 02.11.2019 I 21:00 CET

Discussion in 'Real Madrid' started by yoanaidarov, Nov 1, 2019.

  1. 4x4s

    4x4s Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    If Marcelo was on the bench, bringing him on for Mendy was a simple effective way to strengthen the attack, but hey, substitutions are a difficult thing.
     
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  2. AppleBob86

    AppleBob86 Member+

    Real Madrid
    Jan 11, 2018
    If we want to win trophies, the coach has to be removed. It’s that easy.
     
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  3. HZinho

    HZinho Member+

    Apr 2, 2013
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Let's be fair here, his defensive contribution is the best I've seen in a very long time. The way he plays now, is world class from a defensive aspect. He's almost unbeatable 1 on 1 and very smart in defence. He needs more game time in order to get comfortable in attack. Expecting him to be anywhere near Marcelo is unrealistic (now or in the future). I can already say that there is no LB in the world (current or in potential) that will come close to Marcelo's contribution going forward. Marcelo is a generational talent in that respect, we struck gold with Roberto Carlos and Marcelo in such quick succession. Mendy does, however, provide us with stability in the back. We rarely have to worry about his side, while 90% of the forum was calling for Marcelo's head when he was personally guilty for losses that cost us greatly. I think the combination of Marcelo and Mendy is superb, Zidane needs to manage the game time.

    So, no. I'd say..keep Mendy at LB (instead of CB), rotate him with Marcelo and get his confidence level higher in attack. He simply needs to play more matches and get used to his teammates.

    Just to be clear: I don't rate Reguilon as highly as most here, so I'm fine with the 50M investment for Mendy. Hakimi for me should concentrate on the RB spot and should have an easy time showing Odriozola (who's proven to be quite mediocre both in defence and attack) the door.
     
  4. Anon.

    Anon. Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    It’s really easy to point out what Mendy didn’t do offensively (I agree he needs to improve in that department). But on the flip side, we could’ve played Marcelo, who gets caught napping, and then we lose this game 1-0, as we didn’t score any goals.
    Flippantly saying we wasted 50m on Mendy is a load of horse shite.
    There are players we have that have a clear responsibility, and priority, to provide the attacking threat and creativity, they get paid a handsome figure to do so.
     
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  5. Digital

    Digital Member+

    Dec 10, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I always think judging a players overall ability on one or two games is madness in itself, over a season maybe but one or two games ? And I mean both ways whether it’s saying they are great or horrible , makes no sense, they are human, sometimes they will excel, sometimes they may not have as good a game, Mendy had a strong game for us just recently

    It’s why IMO it doesn’t make sense judging from game to game, over a season you get to see the average level, the consistency of the player, good or bad, there isn’t a player on the planet that won’t have some stinkers as the season unfolds not even the best , they are not robots.
     
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  6. Drouchk

    Drouchk Member+

    Real Madrid
    Spain
    Aug 9, 2018
    Interesting fact, the last 3 times Betis visited the Bernabeu we’ve managed to score a total of zero goal against them, that’s right ZERO goal.
     
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  7. Digital

    Digital Member+

    Dec 10, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Especially in that front three whoever they are, we can never seem to get a goal from them when we desperately need one at important junctures, they miss chances continuously and then everyone else on the team is blamed for not making it happen for whatever reason, strange
     
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  8. 4x4s

    4x4s Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Judging on performance this season, Reguilon has completely outperformed him. It's not even about potential or other factors, player A vs player B, Reguilon has been better.
     
  9. Drouchk

    Drouchk Member+

    Real Madrid
    Spain
    Aug 9, 2018
    Yea we were still by far the better team, all of Betis chances came from long distance shots that Courtois had no problem dealing with. Thats not to say we didn’t have issues, we did, while the midfield wasn’t as bad as people are claiming it could have been better with the introduction of Fede who’s been very important for us because of his uniqueness in what he brings. Having said all that we’ve created many chances and could and should have won.
     
  10. Digital

    Digital Member+

    Dec 10, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I’m still trying to find out why that midfield was an issue in this particular game, I didn’t watch so I can’t talk about what I saw myself, but from what I’ve read, both here and other places, we apparently dominated and controlled most of the game, I know we kept a clean sheet, and apparently created enough chances to win that weren’ t taken,

    IMO, generally, in order to really compete, we need a clinical finisher desperately, unfortunately I can’t think of one that we could get
     
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  11. Yannick Relens

    Yannick Relens Member+

    Real Madrid
    Belgium
    Jan 21, 2018
    We have one: Jovic. We just need him to play. Benzema is great and that's why he doesn't play. Which means we should change formation. I have said it 100 times : try Benzema behind a striker.
     
  12. Eddie

    Eddie Member+

    Oct 19, 2005
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Mou said a while ago that Kroos-Casemiro-Modric is a control midfield. They are great at controlling the tempo of the game and building up but their contribution stops the moment the ball reaches one of the front 3. When Cristiano was here that worked because the dude was a goal scoring machine and now that he's not here we look like we are attacking with wet gunpowder. In my opinion one of the midfielders needs to be much more attack oriented. When we play Fede and Casemiro then Kroos can do that to an extent but he's not really good at it.
     
  13. Zidane05

    Zidane05 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jul 18, 2005
    Toronto
    You can continue to look at this game in isolation, we tried hard, we created, we were unlucky.

    It seems we are quite "unlucky", dropping points against Mallorca, Betis, Brugge, and the like. Or maybe you can start looking at the big picture and see the underlying issues with this team. But let's continue to live in this delusion that everything is alright.
     
  14. J-Mezzy

    J-Mezzy Member+

    Oct 14, 2013
    Orlando
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    You are just being negative!!!
     
  15. BjornH

    BjornH Member

    AC Milan
    Norway
    Mar 25, 2019
    Norway
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    Maybe LA liga is more competieve this year, but Ramos should score on that chance from an excellent feed by Benzema.
    So I`m not all in on the coach here - they need to finish plays even against bottom table teams like Real Betis.

    - We have 12 LA liga teams with 17 points or more points up to the league leaders Real Madrid & Barcelona with 22 points, and that is only 5 points difference.
     
  16. janos audron

    janos audron Member+

    Apr 12, 2010
    The issue is their positioning and movement. Flat and wide. Lacking central penetration in depth, let alone timing. The end result being central positions are mostly empty in transition between second and final third of the pitch, resulting in impaired creativity because players don`t have creative outlets available. Kroos / Modrić sitting deep and wide where fullbacks should be is not being a creative outlet.

    Then the second issue being as result, that allows opponent to comfortably defend and position themselves higher up and effectively press us. That results in increased chance of lost possession followed by deadly counters / fast break attacks because we are mostly off position - with highly positioned fullbacks and have poor comprehension of what to do in such situations.

    This "chance creation" etc... is a myth. We don`t create top tier chances often. Instead we often produced half beaked chances and then speak about "but we lacked scoring". Which shows crucial issue, considering we have more than enough quality to absolutely pummel teams like Betis in first half already.
     
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  17. janos audron

    janos audron Member+

    Apr 12, 2010
    I doubt Mou said that, because this midfield struggles with tempo massively.
     
  18. Anon.

    Anon. Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Mendy’s shot on goal was poor, but people are expecting him, as a defensive focussed LB, to slot it away with ease, like he’s Vinicius...oh wait...
     
  19. 4x4s

    4x4s Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    It's not about the shot. It's about the contribution in general. He looks less gifted than Ramos and Varane upfront. He's good defensively, but his skillset in attack seems to be to run fast and kick it hard. Really basic.
     
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  20. Digital

    Digital Member+

    Dec 10, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Fair enough, I agree that we can make changes for the better to how we play , but my question is, do Toni Casemiro and Luka play/position themselves like this because they can’t play/don’t know any different? or because this is how ZZ wants them to play, whose fault is it for this, rather than it being solely about personnel I imagine this could have a lot to do with the managers tactics as well

    IMO, in transition between the second and final third of the pitch is where Benz lives, always, either right up the middle or out on the flanks but always in that space, normally leaving not a soul in the box to occupy defenders on a more constant basis,

    As for chance creation is a myth, I disagree, do we create enough chances, no, but we do create chances, and we do miss the chances we create with alarming regularity, considering that we don’t create enough at the moment I’d say along with a change of tactics we could do with a clinical finisher, my view on that hasn’t changed, no matter who plays in the midfield,

    I am not sure what a “top tier” chance is so I can’t speak to that, I never see the need to categorize chances, IMO, a chance to score is a chance to score and the better goalscorers when on form put them away pretty consistently
     
  21. RaMaaa

    RaMaaa Member+

    Feb 3, 2013
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    agree 100%.
     
  22. Anon.

    Anon. Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    His “basic” offensive skill set yielded the best chance anyone had, and that was due to his physical attributes and engine. I agree that he doesn’t look as silky and as smooth as Marcelo, but how long has Mendy been here and how long has he had to gel with those in advanced positions? It’s an area that he can work on, because he’s got the primary part of his game down to a tee already.
     
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  23. meringues

    meringues Member+

    Real Madrid
    United States
    Aug 8, 2008
    Wisconsin
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    This is a weird game to take lessons from because IMO it was not a typical showing. We created enough great chances to win but our finishing was poor.

    This midfield is untenable and if Zizou goes back to it as his default he will lose his job and deservedly so.

    I am pleased with Mendy so far. He’s never going to be elite offensively but I think we’re more balanced with one defensive FB.

    I personally do think that Rodrygo is a better player at the moment than Vinicius. And I thought Rodrygo had a good game. But it was very refreshing to see Vinny put in a great showing.
     
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  24. janos audron

    janos audron Member+

    Apr 12, 2010
    Two easily the best chances came from Ramos and Mendy. Tells everything about our play.
     
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  25. Saeta Rubia

    Saeta Rubia Member+

    May 28, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Club didn't spend 48 ME on Mendy to be just solid on defensive end. We had Arbeloa for that role in the past and he cost a fraction. So was Nacho for a number of years including coming on for Carva in CL final. Mendy showed more offensive skills at Lyon especially dribbling ability and that's why we spend that much on him. And ZZ opted that investment when we had Reguilon over using that money for midfield reinforcement.

    Anyways, Mendy missing the chance is not an issue for me. I expect him to improve(he has the talent) and deliver more offensively in games against such teams at Bernabeu. Problem is that we play with no identity even after so many months under ZZ. And his line up selection and substitutions hasn't helped either. I remember Benitez getting criticized for his rotation policy at Liverpool giving the team no continuity.

    Fede is 21. Why should he be rested this early in the season for Modric who hasn't played meaningful minutes after injury? Line up change for every game when we are struggling to get points already. Benz-Jovic at Mallorca. Now suddenly resting Fede because Galatasaray at home. Ironically because rotated line up couldn't beat Brugge at home. Don't see any method to ZZ's madness.
     

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