This is a very dumb argument in general, but I think most people (besides me) agree with you here. Pulisic has performed at a higher peak level than any other US player (Dempsey is really the only one who could argue). In the absence of an entire career to judge (57 goals!!!!), I look at the peak performance of the player. Pulisic's peak performance is the highest we've ever had. Thus, in my estimation, he's the best player we've ever had. Not the most consistently good for a mid-table PL team, not total # of goals, just absolute peak ability/performance. Pulisic is the only player we've had that has succeeded for a top side in a top 3 league. The only one close was Dempsey, and he failed at Tottenham. His Fulham side, despite making Europe, was never a top side (ie. with multiple world stars involved). Sure, you can say it's just potential, but I compare a player's highest highs, especially since using your standards, you can't evaluate Pulisic until he's in his late 20's at least. Plus, throwing out 2 months of Donovan's 20 year career, or Dempsey's best 5 years, is a weird way to compare players when one of them is 21. Anyhow - nobody agrees with me, and that's fine, so it's of little use trying to convince! Moving on...
The positive for Tab is pretty simple: he'd likely be a good draw for a lot of the dual nationals to stay with the US, and he'd probably integrate them faster, for better or worse. He's also been coaching with the time limitations of a national team coach. The negative is also pretty simple: he's inexperienced at a high level. He's coached at a level that has more simplistic tactics than standard national team tactics. And in limited views, he also seems to have many of the same weaknesses people don't like in Berhalter. He's very loyal to his existing crew and the players "who got him there." He likes a playmaker in the defensive midfield over a destroyer. And he's persistent enough in that that he's let it cost him. The US beat France in the U20 World largely because he was forced to take Chris Durkin out of the midfield -- Durkin is the U20 version of Michael Bradley. He's not bad, but he's relatively slow and a good passer but not a strong defender. After beating France with a faster, tougher midfield, he learned nothing and reverted back to lose. There's better options. Maybe he's better than Kreis ... but we shouldn't be limited to that.
What? Nobody argued that he will be world class. Who said that he won't be heads and shoulders over all Americans? He already is. Also, what is a year going to do? He's magically going to be stronger and faster? He's already got over a 100 games in the Bundesliga, Champions League, Europa League and the Premiership. He's got plenty of experience under his belt for someone to argue "lets wait". The fact of the matter is, despite having over a 100 games for club, he's only bagged 19 goals. 21 is not a young age at all. Jesse Lingard was shite when he was 21 and he still is at 25. People still treat him as if he's 19 though.
i said i agreed in general. are you making the case pulisic is already better than wynalda and mathis, though?
Who would be the better option at this point that could be brought in and would take the job? I'm not really disagreeing with your assessment but wondering who you think would be the realistic options. I guess the way I look at it is that Jay's brother is historically bad. Almost any reasonable candidate would be a significant upgrade right now, and as you pointed out, Tab does have some positives. He seems like a popular choice and it appears like there is at least a segment of the soccer establishment that would support the move.
I honestly don't know what the argument is now - everything is convoluted and I really can't be bothered. But if there's anyone who's comparing Landon Donovan to Christian Pulisic needs their head examined. Landon Donovan was nowhere near as what Christian Pulisic is today or can become.
That would be fine. I'm just not convinced that with the current state of the FED that they are going to fire GGG and bring in an outsider. I can almost convince myself that it could actually happen with Ramos, and more than anything...I just want Jays brother to be far away from our national team.
It is giving him a chance to adapt to the new league that plays a different style. It gives him time to work on his weaknesses to see if he can overcome them. Pulisic has already played more games than de bruyne who was a similar age when he signed. Mo Salah signed with Chelsea at 22. Some players dont improve but most 21 yo get a lot better. I have no idea what will come of CP, but I would bet on him improving due to his mentality and he can still mature physically. Not sure what makes you think you how he is going to turn out.
Some thoughts to consider, Yurch10. [1] If an argument is based on evidence, on what has objectively happened, as opposed to daydreams of what might one day happen, that is a virtue, not a vice. It is not dumb, it is what makes physics and mathematics of today better than the physics of Aristotle and the mathematics of John Dee. [2] It is harder to score, and play consistently well, against high quality opposition than with a high quality team. If you doubt this, you try playing on a doubles side in tennis against Djokovic as opposed to with him. Let experience be your teacher. Let me repeat this, just so it sinks in. It is harder to play well against a Chelsea, or Borussia Dortmund, than with them. [3] Dempsey had 22 starts with Tottenham, and 7 times played as a substitute. He scored 7 goals in that time. That is not failure. That his manager didn't respect him, and did not want him on the team, is not the same as saying that when given the opportunity he did not perform. [4] We can say Pulisic's achievements are comparable, or superior, to the best of the USMNT when they are comparable or superior. This is not only "not dumb", it is also true. [5] Donovan had great stats, for club and country. The best we've ever had. I mentioned what Donovan did, in a mere cup of tea with Everton, to illustrate that Pulisic has some mighty proving to do before we can set him up as "the best". [6] Oh, don't worry, Yurch10. BS has lots of space and time for people to set out their agreement with you. If you are one of those whose beer is refreshing only in the company of those who will not disagree with you, then these boards will have plenty of folks with whom that beer will refresh you.
There is a skill in culturing amoebas, but apparently one not so difficult that it can't be done by those with eyes wide shut. Pulisic can become the greatest American player ever. I hope he does. It can only mean better things ahead for the USMNT. Pulisic,however, is not today the greatest American player ever. It is not even close. Yes, he is arguably one of the top two players we've had at age 21. The other? Landon Donovan. You know, the guy who at age 21 scored two world cup goals and was named Best Young Player at that WC? Promise is a wonderful thing, but even better is realized promise. I hope Pulisic does so realize his promise. I hope you realize one day the distinction between what might be and what is. Just open your eyes.
Oh, don't worry! Not arguing about this isn't because I need people to agree with me, it's because most people don't, and I realize when I've been defeated. You have made it clear you judge "best" based on a full career. Ok, that's great, and fair. But then we can't even have this discussion, which is likely fine with you (and me). My definition of "best" isn't a full career, it's the highest peak you can hit. Thus, Pulisic is the best in my mind, and it wouldn't matter if he retired tomorrow. BUT, the argument that better players play for worse sides, and are thus better because they perform against better players made me chuckle. Well done. It's like that top guy for the Washington Generals was better than the Globetrotters cuz he scored 25 points once. That point is so preposterous it's almost impressive. Like pooping in the fridge AND eating a whole wheel of cheese!
Yeah, the saying "get a grip" comes to mind when people start talking about Pulisic. I wonder who's decision it was not to play the Arriola lw + Pulisic 10 combo which Egg already noted had paid some dividends. The twitterati were all abuzz about putting Puli wide which is what leads to Pulisic being surrounded by 4 players when he picks the ball up from wide deep in his own territory. Pulisic will be a good player but needs good situations to start building his portfolio.
So according to your magical timeline, he's got about 9 months left before we can start commenting on whether he'll be less shite when he's 26? Please. Do yourself a favor and don't compare Christian Pulisic with Kevin de Bruyne and Mo Salah. There were question marks raised and groans (in the case of KdB) when they left their respective clubs. But nobody is going to bat an eye when Christian gets loaned out. Ok. Based on what? Your feelings? Because Kevin De Bruyne and Mo Salah (who are both not Christian Pulisic) turned out alright after they're 21? Who cares how Kevin and Mo turned out? What does this got to do with Christian? I just told you. Christian Pulisic has nearly 150 games in the Bundesliga, Premier League, the Champions League and the Europe. 150 games is a pretty strong indicator that 250 games might not make a huge difference anymore.
This is the most irrelevant stat I've ever read. Who cares what Landon Donavan did for the USMNT? Since when was the USMNT relevant that we should start counting for this? Here's what really matters and a true moment of reflection: He's only played around 30 games in the 7 years he's been in Europe. And he only scored like, 1 goal?
What an absurdist thing to say. It doesn't matter what Donovan did for the USNT....on the USNT forums? The World Cup is bigger than any competition that exists and he performed well there a couple times. He was a killer against the Mexican National team who is better than the average team he'd play in European club football. Anyway, he had success in the EPL in his limited time there. He was more impactful with his passing than scoring. That was a serious agenda post.
You know,Mike has taken a load of shit on here more and more deservingly as he overstays his welcome. But there is a subset of the American fanbase that HATES Landon Donovan to the point of utter irrationality.
Sorry if I hurt your feelings but the USMNT really doesn't matter. We're comparing Christian Pulisic to Landon Donovan on merit. And the argument is: scoring more goals for the USMNT when the opposition is the CONCACAF shouldn't really count. Yes but it's not quite the "best" level of competition is it? Cool! Oh, yes, the shining beacon of world footballing quality, those Mexicans. Mexico is better than Dortmund over a entire season? Landon Donovan was in Europe for over 7 seasons. And now all of a sudden Donovan is a good passer because he couldn't score? Only if you felt that way. I get that Landon Donovan may be the most celebrated American player. But to say that he's better than Christian Pulisic because he scored more goals for the San Jose Earthquakes is garbage.
Bad attempt. Sorry. It's been tried many times before to the point where its expected. I've never said that Christian Pulisic is the greatest American player ever. And I don't need a laundry list of credentials to understand this - you can simply tell just by watching them play. Ask Klinsmann. So, I too, would have you open your eyes or rather, use your brain to understand that the MLS is not the UCL.
[1] The expected value is expected. Quite a surprise. Next thing you'll be suggesting is that the expected is "Bad". Oops, ya already have. [2] Has your mind gone haywire? Or is that your natural setting.? You:" Landon Donovan was nowhere near as what Christian Pulisic is today or can become." First: What Christian Pulisic is today is nowhere near what Landon Donovan was. What he can become has the potential to be genuinely superior to Landon, but what has not yet been has not yet been. And based on achievement, not your hallucinations of The Radiant Future, Landon is the best we've ever had [not a goalkeeper], at least in the modern era. Second, So you're saying that Christian Pulisic is far ahead of the best ever American player, and yet you are saying you never said that Christian Pulisic is the best American player ever....... Logic is your Nemesis, Amoeba. [3] You did not see Landon play, and did you really think invoking Klinsmann's "authority" would be in your favor? [4] I would love to have Klinsmann explain how he could live with himself, as manager of the USMNT , in choosing to deliberately undermine our WC team just so he could have fun spiting Landon Donovan. [5] True, MLS is not UCL. Now is there a reason for that non-sequitur? Or did one of those naughty amoebas percolate into your hippocampus?
Pulisic is not a flash in the pan like 99% of the guys the fans here get excited about. He has a future, but not as a world beater. As I said, we'll be lucky if he reaches Fabian Johnson at his peak form and keeps it for long (Fabian himself didn't). For the NT he needs to be a bit more adaptable though. We'll see, although if someone doesn't evolve in the intellectual part of the game in the 18-22 range, then it's not promising.