His selection is dog pile, it's ALWAYS been dog pile, from day one. His freaking selection is camp cupcake+, it's always been camp cupcake+, how is it hard to understand why that's a problem? I have no problem owning that the Euro based players looked like garbage, and that part of that is us, and part of that is Canada making us look like that, but is it a freaking coincidence that literally every player looks worse for Berhalter than for their club team other than Morris? Think back to '02 or '09 or '10. O'Brien Heydude Reyna Donovan McHead Mathis Llamosa Sanneh et all THEY ALL LOOKED BETTER FOR BRUCE THEN FOR CLUB. Look at the '09/'10 squads, how many guys looked better for club then country? 2 or 3. Now? It's literally all of them. Is that really a coincidence, or is the coach completely incapable of bringing the best out of his players. Nobody w/sense is going to argue that McKennie is the picture of consistency, or that Arriola is a great finisher, or that our back 4 are Italy in 2006, but literally everyone looks worse in the US jersey than for club. Everybody. Save Morris. That says something. Then you add in horrific tactics, consistently terrible sub decisions, total inflexibility, a fixation on MLS lifer scrubs with low floors and low ceilings over the young prospects that may or may not have big futures and this was all predictable. I watched it, not remotely surprised. Thirty-five years, smerty-five years. There's a reason that Vegas basically had us at nearly even odds (-120). Even Vegas knows Berhalter sucks at this point. No goal posts have ever been moved. From day 1 there's been a core belief from my side of the argument that: 1.The team needed to build around the kids w/a handful of glue guys. 2. Berhalter instead chose to build around the glue guys w/a handful of kids (actually, not even that many glue guys, mostly nondescript guys) That's it. Most of us wanted the team and roster to be turned over almost entirely w/only a handful of vets brought back. We wanted the core of the team to be built around the kids, that has not happened. Instead it's been has been's, MLS lifers, and a handful of the kids sprinkled in if they're regular starters in Europe and that's it playing a system that doesn't fit them to begin with, with First XI's and 23's that are never remotely what they should be. If the team were stinking it up with 23's and first XI's that made sense, and using tactics, and second half substitution patterns that were innovative and flexible (not Lovitz as the freaking super sub if he aint starting in seeming Everly match), that would be one thing, but it's NEVER been that. Goal Posts have never been moved. We've been enraged since the March Call ups, doubled down the rage over the summer debacle, and are now ready to burn it to the ground after the fall from hell. I get that you think the pool just sucks. I think you're dead wrong, period. I think Berhalter's pool ("the ...[camp cupcake]... group as he calls it) sucks, as well as his tactics, methodology, substitution patterns, everything. I think the root of everything is in over reliance on past it players, mls scrubs, and a sheer terror of playing the US equivalent of guys like Alphonso Davies, kiddies playing in lower level leagues in Europe that have shined everywhere, but haven't quite hit it at the big time level yet. Kinda telling, while Davies is putting us to the sword, on few if any minutes, his teammate w/3x the minutes in Chris Richards, has never even been called up, once, despite the backline looking like dog pile, game in, and game out. I'd take losing, and humiliations w/the kids who will be the core going forward every time and three times on Sunday over getting taken to the woodshed w/the likes of Corey Baird, Gyasi Zardes and Daniel Freaking Lovitz being core parts of the "group". Where in the hell is that group ever taking us, and is there anyone on the planet anywhere who thought any of them were taking us anywhere in January, let alone March, June, September or October? Maybe there's one or two poor souls, but I'll live and die w/the kids making mistakes 1000x over versus watching us play like we forgot there was a game Tuesday night with a 23 half stocked w/guys that couldn't have hung with the 1983 USMNT, let alone the 2019 US U20 team.
if we had our best possible team- which obviously wouldnt be a consensus, maybe even majority agreed upon because everyone has preferences- so let me say if we had the team i, personally, think is our best team i dont have any clue how good it would be. but wed be better. and since you just repeated everything you said, ill repeat in kind- its insane to say theres not objectively more quality than weve seen berhalter utilize. we would be undoubtedly better. with my picks, or most anyones picks. im not even a morales fan- hes a passable player to me, his toughness is more of a factor to me than his skill. but compared to, what would you say trapp is? the eighth best american cm in mls? hes not even a starter (though thats very recent, so im not hanging the whole argument on that)? tenth? let me put it this way- which team would trade which player for trapp? putting aside money (im sure it would be however much in tam rather than a player)- what is his value? im not saying saying morales is a better player simply cause i rate him higher, or by checking off a list of attributes- nor am i saying germany is magic and mls is poo. but the freaking whitecaps arent losing sleep cause they dont have a trapp-level player, and most bund2 teams wouldnt recognize his name on the caller id if he called asking to train with them in hopes of a trial. that you say theyre of equal value in terms of players is just asinine. im not saying that in my official capacity of some freaking guy that likes soccer- the game of soccer says that. the market says that. numbers say that. salary says that. level of play says that. donovan was better with the quakes than kirovski was shining his ring with man u. bradley was better his second year with with roma, getting token, somebody-please-buy-this-guy-hes-slowing-down minutes than any mls counterpart at the time by three or four country miles. sargent- getting cameo minutes every other match until injuries hit at bremen is better- full stop- than zardes. better is just better. theres not set rules. you mention the next matchs in nov- if berhalter is still here (which he will be) we are going to see the same names: bradley. trapp. zardes. lovitz. baird. we have better. youre just wrong. nobody is moving goalposts- we are moving the calendar. and month after month getting the exact same shitshow with intentionally chosen inadequate players. given some, or all, of our better options we still wont be great. im sure wed be a hot mess- because thats what berhalter has shown in every aspect of his management during his tenure. we would be better, though. a cake made by a crappy cook is still better than one made by a crappy cake with crappy ingredients, too. now, as for being unkind to our rivals...i dont even know what to do with that. ive posted elsewhere that berhalter (and "the group") has done a KILLER job making concacaf opposition look amazing. how much more magnanimous do we, as a soccer nation, have to be? you want to talk about how great canada is? alphonso davies- all the potential in the world. electric young player. also true- but measurable in a reality-based context? hes played more games this season in a team with chris richards than robert lewendowski. im not saying canada isnt greatly improved (though thats not really proven either, theyre more talented than usual). they played a fine game- hard, and with heart. but are you really arguing that match was canada beating us more than us being abysmal? if we beat a mexican team as decimated as we currently are in everything from injury to form to selection to management...well, id love that and wouldnt be able to stop laughing (i totally get it, canada fans. to a point.). but i wouldnt think we have finally arrived beating a team in absolute dissaray. so sorry- thats some backwards ass cowardly escapism on your part to pretend that canada really is a power now. curacaos on the come up. that jamaica team is world cup bound, probably gonna make some noise in the final too...just ask djordje mihailovic! get out of here with that. you want to make yourself feel better somehow by acting like everyone else is crazy impressive and underrated in world soccer? cool. but thats more delusional than saying lotivz is especially CLOSE to lichaj, robinson, out of position ream, hollingshead, dotson, wrong-sided dest or lima. i dont know how strong an argument he has vs garza or villafana. once again- thats not a list thats gonna get anybody crazy excited. NO ONE is saying we have world class players around every corner (god knows at left back, and currently st either)- but better is better. and we have better. your sanctimonious bs aside, thats just a fact. good enough? who knows. but for real- get over yourself telling us how embarrassed we should be. we all are (i am, i should say, i cant speak for anyone else)- just not for your ridiculous reasons.
Forgive me if this has been mentioned before, but I felt that we had enough of the ball- and time and space - to make things happen. Nothing, or very little, materialized. Perhaps if a true ten were on the field...
One more thing: Canada's strip had a timeless dignity, a sharp austerity, that I, as a frustrated US fan, can only envy.
we’ve made several knock out rounds with similarly talented teams. No reason we couldn’t do it with this group - except for a coach using a stupid strategy built around a player who makes those around him worse. as to your specific question, yes I think that the athleticism and bite of Holmes and Morales would have made a sizable difference in this game and would elevate both Weston and Christian.
yep, hypocritically. FWIW, I agree that MLS doesn’t have to develop the USMNT but then they can’t get upset if the coach says what Klinsmann said just because it’s true.
Great post... And the irony is that Jay's brother himself wouldn't be getting near the crap he is now if he was losing 2 -0 to Canada with the kids. In the long run, it's probably a good thing though, he can't ruin them if they are not on the senior team.
When talking about x or y....why wouldn't fans be upset? We wasted a year of time with Sarachan, and now Gregg is trying to "implement his system".... Would you rather have group A eating up all the minutes to learn the system or group B? A Zardes, Ream, Lovitz, B Sargent, CCV/Richards/Miazga/Long, Gloster/A.Robinson
The pool of available players isn't bad. The selection and deployment is firable. A top class butter knife makes for a poor screwdriver.
It never ends. Get smoked by Argentina in Copa - "we don't have the players to compete with them, changing players or coach won't matter" (the one truth). Miss WC - "we just don't have the players, Arena did the best he could. Our team is just not as talented as Honduras and Panama" Lose GC to Mexico's B team - "Mexico has a golden generation. They are far superior. We just don't have the players right now" Lose to Canada - "We just have to admit we don't have the players to beat Canada now". As I've said many times, where do these sinking expectations end? If we're now deferring to a largely MLS team we haven't lost to in 34 years, what's next? Curacao? Jamaica (already lost)? St KItts and Nevis? Where is the bottom for the USSF apologists? On a Boston College board, people always bring up the BC slogan "Ever to Excel" and how the current teams/leadership in place there are the antithesis of that. Rings true here as well, though to be fair, USSF doesn't have that motto.
Cogent analysis, but can I put it to you then to call in your own 23 and name a starting 11? I don't see a large pool of untapped talent out there right now that would have been a massive upgrade. Remember, Brooks, Adams and Altidore are injured so not eligible.
Twice. No doubt, unless we play the home game in Green Bay in February. The frozen tundra game. Mexico fails to come out for the 2nd half.
I get your point but there’s too much hyperbole here. No one said that “Our team is just not as talented as Honduras and Panama" and even "Grim Reaper" Suyuntuy hasn’t said we don’t have the players to beat Canada.
People here absolutely said we weren't good enough to make the WC. Somebody just said above "For once we should have the balls to admit that we lost because the other team has players as good as ours, perhaps even better." By any honest comparison (most likely transfer values, combined worth, wages, % of minutes in top leagues) the US is far better than Canada. The idea that it takes "balls" to admit that we might be worse is ludicrous, and the kind of loser mentality our fan base (don't get me started on our country) has right now.
Opara for Brooks Dax/Holmes/Corona/Delgado for Adams Ebobisse/Sapong/for Altidore Ebobisse is fresh off dragging PTFC into the playoffs as their 9. Sapong had a good year and is a veteran physical force. He could be a modern Alan Gordon/Eddie Johnson route 1 guy.
I heard that Opara was the MLS defender of the year (2nd time in three years?). For all the MLS conspiracy theorists, why is he not in the squad as opposed to Ream or Miazga? Is he just too old?
People definitely did bemoan our lack of talent even as we lost out to teams playing MLS rejects and bench sitters.
The problem is a combination of tactics and of player selection philosophy. If USSF wants to transform the way to team plays then it should be comprised of mainly u23s or thereabouts. These players will still be prime age or lower by the time 2022 rolls around. The current prime age players are the so-called 'Missing Generation', a group that has been characterized by poor outcomes. Bradley, Lovitz, Ream, Trapp, Zardes, Altidore, etc., have no business in the team. And difficult decisions would need to be made with regards to even elite prime age players. Yedlin, for example, is a poor possession passer. In Gregg's system, he would need to be dropped or moved to wing forward. That's all if the goal is to truly transform the way the team plays.
Quite a few of us did this on the Best 11 Right Now thread but it's been a while and injuries have changed. Here would be my starting 11 with bench players against Canada: ------------------Sargent--------------------- Pulisic-----------Lletget------------Morris ---------Morales---------McKennie-------- Robinson---Miazga----Long----Cannon -------------------Steffen---------------------- Subs- GK - Horvath, Jesse Gonzalez D - Lichaj, M. Robinson, Ream, Yedlin M - Holmes, Canouse, Ledezma F - Boyd, Sapong, Arriola (Weah fill-in) *I'd strongly consider starting Holmes for Lletget if he looked like he could go a full 90 in training. They're close for me. I would use the tactics similar to what Dave Sarachan used against weaker opponents like Bolivia and ask Morales to hold a bit more than McKennie but play a double-pivot for all intents and purposes. I'd ask the wingers to stay wide in attack and cut inside to make room for overlapping runs by some offensively-gifted outside backs. Lletget or Holmes or Ledezma would have plenty of defensive cover as a 10 to find little spaces and not worry so much about getting back to help a woefully incompetent six. Sargent could do the same thing and if he's getting bludgeoned out of the game, Sapong is there as an actual back-to-goal #9. I like the Long/Miazga pairing against Canada specifically. I don't love keeping Boyd and Arriola around but without Weah, no one else really stands out to me. Perhaps others have some better ideas there. Against opponents without speed or where we expect to have most of the ball, I'd still use Ream when Brooks isn't available. 12 of my 23 were on this past roster. I understand other people will have slightly different personal preferences but the fact that I truly believe that 11 of our best, healthy 23 and multiple potential starters weren't even in a camp with surplus players is pretty bad. The pool is not elite, not even as good as it was 10 years ago, but there is ZERO chance the pool is as bad as we're currently looking.
i mentioned yesterday our record last 5 was lldwl later i remembered that as part of our schedule we have already played 5 games against the top 7 regional teams (inc. Mex, Jam., and Can.). with a 6th upcoming. his record 1 win (Jam GC semi) 4 losses (2 Mex, 1 Can, 1 Jam friendly) 0 ties if that was 3/5 of a hex fixture list we would so far have 3 pts with 1 game left from Canada, and the remaining schedule of 2 games each Honduras and CR, hardly creampuffs, last time we got 0 from CR and 4 from Honduras. that's 7-10 pts total from a hex schedule depending how canada home would go. i went back and the fewest points for 4th place in the hex between 1998-2018 was 11 pts by Mexico in 2014. that's not even 3rd. and that numerical analysis ignores that it's not just points but finishing ahead of two teams. however long it takes to fire him is literally an objective waste of my time because he thus far is mathematically incapable of achieving the desired goal.