Nations League A, Camp 1, Cuba/Canada, Oct. 11/15

Thought Boyd was injured for GC final.

 

I still say for the November friendlies, (believing that Dest will turn us down again, and Weah, Adams are still out with injury

Canada
GK Guzan
RB Yedlin (Cannon)
CB Alvarado
CB Brooks
LB Lima (Lichaj)
M6 Morales
M8 McKennie
10 Pulisic
RW Morris (Boyd)
FW Sargent
LW Holmes
Unused: Horvath, Pomykal, Yuiell, Ledezma

Cuba
GK Horvath
RB Cannon
CB Palmer-Brown
CB Carter-Vickers
LB A. Robinson
M6 Yuiell
M8 Pomykal (Mendez)
10 Ledezma (Miljevic)
RW Llanez
FW Sargent (Soto)
LW Ferreira
unused: Scott, Alvarado, Gloster, Holmes

 

That rumor was false. GGG said he just started Morris ahead of him.

 

Who is a "talent" in the current crop of Nat level players as a 1 on 1 dribbler? I'm all for holding the bar at a high standard but what's the point if no one can jump over it?

Yet NONE of these names were called into the most recent camp. Your idea of a better than Green "fit" apparently isn't shared by Berhalter.

In other words, your criteria for being called into a Nats camp is:

1)NOT playing in Europe
2)being young enough to still be considered a "prospect"
3)and playing soft defense against the World Cup champions

If we follow that short-sighted reasoning, then Green is a terrible candidate for consideration. If you look past the fixation with what Berholder is trying to do (without much recent success), Green has some decent glass is half-full qualities.

 

I don't think anyone is against this in theory but if you don't give the latter 2 chances to compete then how can one make that statement?

 

I'm in the camp that says we should win but Canada could beat us, and probably will, at times, over the next decade. David and Davies are CL-level talents. Hoilett and Arfield are EPL-caliber players. Kaye was top 10 in MLS Whoscored this year. And the top keeper in MLS, by WS score, is Canada's backup keeper.

It's just a matter of if their backline is bad or really bad, and can the home field advantage make up for it. OTOH, there are not a lot of CONCACAF teams who can start a backline of average-ish MLS players.

 

is there ever going to be a point where our guys playing in the bundesliga, prem or colaship (dont correct me) are going to be able to grasp berhalters intricate footballing theories, unheard of in those podunk leagues? are trapp and zardes not exhausted between the individual tutoring sessions and late night full team review sessions encouraging the other others that someday they, too, can begin to understand "the system"?

how freaking long are we going to keep repeating that steaming pile of crap talking point? its been a damn year- i think its POSSIBLE some of these guys who played and learned under klopp or benitez can catch the freaking drift of what berhalter wants.

its that why we are STILL calling in a majority of the same players from his first january camp every break? what magic took place over those three weeks that allowed daniel lovitz and corey baird to so firmly grasp both "the principles" AND priority seating on the team bus over such remedial learners in "berhalter 101" as antonee robinson and ccv, morales and holmes (pending fitness), sabbi and amon?

look, every coach has his or her "guys", whatever. but please- for the love of the soccer gods- can we stop with this nonsense about "familiarity with his system"? all that is is insulting to our other players- who are professionals, some at MUCH higher levels- to prop up our managers' security blankets?

 

I kind of get the arguments that improvements would likely be slight in many cases, but for me if you add up 5-6 marginally improved players you start to actually have an effect. At top level, player differences are often slight but the little things add up. I also think it makes players less competitive when being better, even if only marginally, doesn't get you a shot and being poor doesn't get you dropped. A guy loses his starting spot iin MLS while being poor for the US, looking at Trapp now, keeping his spot because of a past relationship sets a really poor example in my eyes.

And it's just a circular argument about the system being so so complicated.We've had plenty of time that any choice would know the system had they gotten some time over the last year or gotten the number of calls of someone like Lovitz or Baird. At some point on field merit has to mean more than historic connections.

 

And remember the one game Adams was healthy he did just fine learning the system in a couple days, even playing the goofiest position in it. Soccer, even under Bethalter, ain't rocket science and good players can follow instructions.

In the plus column for Bethalter, I did just see where he said at a press conference that he expected once healthy Adams would end up at the 6. So, he actually does change the system at times for a good enough player.

 

Lame. That was a pretty reasoned argument and respectful reply, and did not deserve your character assassination as a response.

Didn't Egg just say in an interview that Adams will eventually play the 6? Is Adams off the team because the coach didn't choose him to be on the team or because he's injured?

 

Or sez he will just to keep the wolves at bay. He has drifted from Trapp and Bradley, but still calls them into camp. And maybe he is a slow learner, either way time will tell if he can make the adjustment, in his own head, to leading a team of players or continuing to try to develop players into his vision.

 

Character assassination? Come on now, let's tone down the rhetoric...reminds me when I got a warning from the mods for saying "derp derp" to someone!

As far as his response, I went back and read your post, and it seems a pretty reasonable reply. You said you disagree with many here (fine), and that the managers should be able to select their own players, based on who they think is best (yes, they do).

I think your argument (and the counter) is basically what this board is built on. Do you trust the manager, or do you not? I think most here don't (I certainly don't), and that is based on the performance of the last manager, and how he basically "lost" the fan base, even for Egg. I'm guessing you were ok with all of Brucie's choices, and shouted from the rooftops that "we needed experience, and now is not the time to experiment with youth"? And that missing the WC was just a function of Klinsy's ineptitude and our lack of talent?

Anyhow, it's a new manager, and Egg will continue to get more time. I think, from a fairly objective lens, his overall performance so far has not been good enough. Despite the best young talent we've ever had, we are losing to teams we shouldn't (Jamaica, Venezuela), looking poor and disjointed, and relying on a few players that shouldn't even be in the team. Obviously, we disagree on that last point.

 

It wasn't my post. It was lmorin's post.

You sure are putting a lot of words into my mouth. I don't always agree with your posts, but typically you are a reasoned poster. I hope you aren't joining the make shit up camp, because you typed and attributed to me a bunch of stuff that I didn't say.

I merely pointed out it was a reasoned and respectful reply. Show me where I said I agreed with it? Because I don't agree with all lmorin said. I just thought his reply was the type of dialogue that BigSoccer needs, not the General Egg tropes and conspiracy theories and a silly straw man based on an injured player.

Maybe you can answer the question I asked: was Adams missing from camp because GB felt Trapp and MB were better options, or because Adams was injured, because that is what Toazer was basing his response on...

 

This is a take I can agree with. Not sure I necessarily agree on the players though. Robinson and Holmes are standouts. Green and CCV not so sure.

 

My mistake, thought that was your post, didn't realize it was another's.

Regardless, I think my overall points stands. Some agree with Egg and the manager can do no wrong (not sure where you're at with that, but switch any of my previous points to lmorin instead of you), and some (most?) are unimpressed.

Certainly wasn't "character assassination".

I agree that Egg supporters provide something here, as without them it would just be a bunch of us completely amazed by how feckless and misguided US Soccer and the media are.

Adams is injured.

GB keeps calling in the 45th/73rd ranked American players in MLS (per whoscored, eliminating min. mins requirements moves them further back), and building the team around them for the most part. If Adams comes in and takes that spot immediately (not the RB role), Yeuill or another young player backs him up, and MB/Trapp are dropped, I think everyone (both Egg supporters/detractors) would be very happy.

 

I agree with the overall take.

If we're using "standout" as a baseline though, it has to apply to all comparable leagues and not have a different standard for MLS than B2/Championship. Baird, Lovitz, Bradley, Trapp, etc. aren't MLS standouts by any means.

 

Can you please provide a link as I didn't see anything like this? I did see a quote where Gregg listed Trapp, Yueill and then Adams as potential successors to Bradley, in that exact order IIRC.

 

This all sounds reasonable.

The Tampa Bay Rays in MLB try to get 2% gains at every position. With a minuscule payroll they made the playoffs this year. So, getting 4% is a big win. I'm sure you pulled that number out of the air and supposed it to be small. But, in pro sports, 4% is a serious competitive edge.

 

Pulisic currently. Actually is world class at this. Lewis and Amon are interesting. Reyna might be a Pulisic level talent. Boyd has some good stuff.

 

You are absolutely correct, it is all crap. Zardes was traded to Columbus and was starting two weeks later. He is either a crazy soccer genius, or this isn't as complicated as it is made out to be.

It is so easy to apologize for the games against Mexico or Venezuela by falling back on the, "it is so complicated and will take time" excuse.

 

Do you ever watch Championship head tennis?

 

I think the bigger questions with Gregg's system is: now that we've had multiple camps, who are the players who look to be playing near their ceiling within the system? most importantly, what about our core players: Pulisic, McKennie, Steffen, Adams and Brooks? The last two should be excluded due to injuries IMO but we have more than enough time to see if it's putting our best players in positions to succeed.

I'd also like to see whether people think that Bradley and Trapp are playing near their ceiling as this system appears specifically designed to benefit them the most.

 

I think CCV has been better than advertised. Nobody is watching Stoke (GB should be), but looking at the passmaps he seems highly involved in moving the offense forward.

One thing about all these players, especially the young ones, is they are inconsistent. Long was MLS DOTY last year and this year even NYRB fans will tell you he has been poor. However, he continues to get USMNT callups and starts. If he was playing as poorly last year, would he ever have been called in?

So, not only do we want to get the stand outs in, but we can fill out the roster by those most in form. Continuing with Long as an example, is an out of form Long really that much better than any of the other MLS/EC/2.Bund CBs we can play? Put another way, why are we dressing Long and starting him and barely giving minutes to the probable MLS DOTY this year?

With the very young, high upside guys, maybe you call them in regardless of form for awhile (Pulisic the obvious example), but with these relatively older guys, I would cycle them out quick if their league play dips.

 

This is what I think I am seeing for the NT. I'm not sure so I understand if you disagree. I think (and secretly hope) that a lot of these mediocre players are being called in because they are ok being placeholders until the expected young talent matures. This I glean from Nagbe's refusal to be called up. When the young talent for a talent poor spot is ready they are actually brought along quite quickly. See Cannon, Dest, Yueill. In spots where they see an incumbent that will likely stick through the cycle things are a little slower. See Sargent, Robinson. Some of the spots are actually already quite young. Midfield and wings. Things are already quite young. I also think midfield is unsettled until Adams arrives and the decision is made if he plays 8 or 6. I don't think right back is a thing anymore for Adams.

 

Either way, Boyd has been out of form at club and international level.