Post-Match USMNT vs. Cuba 10/11

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Winoman, Oct 11, 2019.

  1. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    No one would need to overpromise anything. If you've got a guy who came up in the program. And you're reasonably sure that guy will be a contributor to the full NT at some point (as sure as you can be with YNT guys) and the guy starts talking about his options …. before you take more opportunities from someone you *know* will help you if they can*, you find out where Mr. Waffle stands.

    Tell the guy straight up. You are waffling. We want to make sure you're committed to the program. We're going to give you the opportunity to be committed to the program. Either the guy is, or he isn't.

    If he isn't, then that becomes part of your evaluation of whom to call in to the next YNT camp.

    There is no over promising. There is no pressure. It's "we need to make sure you're committed to the program." If that guy isn't. That's his right. No problem. If he's worth it …. keep calling him. If there's another guy right behind him that would benefit from the opportunity and may come good. Then, next up.

    To be clear, I'm not saying make promises to a guy who has U.S. eligibility, who's never played for one of our YNT's. And, I'm not saying lock up a questionable guy that may not make it with U.S., but could likely represent another country lower on the pole.

    I'm saying where there's an extremely talented buy who looks like a sure thing. And, that guy has options w/ a country as good as U.S., or better - and especially if that guy who has been in the program starts talking about "hey, I'm open," then you find out at your earliest opportunity if the guy is with the program.

    No promises. Just, "are you with us?"

    And, there was never a better opportunity than Cuba to ascertain whether some guys who are saying "I'm open" are with us. Like I said, for me, I'm calling up Soto for Cuba. He can take it or leave it. If he says no, then I'm looking long and hard at what my other options are before I call him into the next YNT camp.
     
  2. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Canada actually has some solid mids and forwards. If guys like Morris and Yueill perform well enough, they should become pool staples if they keep up their club form. I really hope Berhalter doesn't start Zardes/Trapp/Bradley over Sargent/Yueill. Sargent has just started 3 Bundesliga games and Yueill just had a better season than Trapp and Bradley.
     
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  3. Bite o' the Cherry

    Charlotte FC
    United States
    May 3, 2006
    Charlotte, NC, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There can be no ONE who believes it's even remotely possible that Bradley doesn't start tomorrow. It is what it is. When Tyler finally (please gods) finally comes back, that's when we can truly begin to hope for Bradley's being put out to pasture.
     
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  4. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    I think that there is a role for Bradley in the team. These young guys all respect Bradley and Bradley has seen time at the highest level for the USMNT as well as having been an American Abroad who knows MLS as well.

    I don't think that Bradley should be penciled in as a starter because that sends the wrong message to the team. Bradley should have a very clear role as a sub who comes on to help get things organized and provide leadership. For example, when the team is ahead and trying to salt away a game, Bradley could have a clear role in helping the team to maintain focus and intensity.

    Bradley could also have a role in helping the team find solutions when they can't seem to find them on the field. Granted, its a limited role for him in that regard but with the right direction from the coach, Bradley could serve the team in that way.

    When Tyler Adams returns, he should immediately get an audition for that third midfield role. He has such a big impact on the game that you want him in his most natural role. He's a pillar that you build on. McKennie and Adams are the core of the team. You build around them. Bradley has a role in mentoring these guys, but he should not sit either of them on the bench or move them to another position.

    If I'm Berhalter, I pencil Adams and McKennie in and rotate the other guys until I find the right mix. Bradley is one I rotate.

    I might even try this combination:
    --------------McKennnie------------------
    --------Bradley---------Adams----------

    Adams covers for Bradley's lack of lateral agility and Bradley provides leadership and more consistent passing vision. Bradley is more of a passing rhythm guy who can hit some balls over the top and switch field (Bradley does both very well).

    Adams can also get up-field and then recover if Bradley remains between the center backs and just hits the long balls.

    If you follow the above combination, you have to have at least three defensive players who stay in defensive positions. So you look at Ream paired with a faster player, and at least one outside back who is primarily a defender...both outside backs need excellent recovery speed as well. I'd choose Cannon and Yedlin and let Cannon venture forward.
     
  5. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    It's Toronto and Yueill has had all of 239 minutes with the national team. I think Berhalter has been moving Yueill along fairly fast but Bradley will be the starter. Yueill, however, has all the tools to take away Bradley's spot and it seem that he has taken Trapp's. I do hope that Sargent gets the start.
     
  6. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    #131 DHC1, Oct 14, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
    I respect Bradley’s years of USMNT service and am grateful for his moral leadership in the 2017 game against Mexico.

    that being said, he’s the wrong person for the USMNT now. His on-field leadership is now questionable as he will unfortunately always be tied to being the captain and centerpiece of a team that failed to qualify for the WC. The image of a bone-tired captain slow jogging to a late corner in the final game while down by one is an apt image that his time is done.

    more importantly, he is a terrible fit for the USMNT right now as he’s a terrible partner for any of our CMs as his inclusion forces a series of cascading compensations that put our impact players out of their best positions and force them to cover for his weak defense in the most critical part of the field.

    Furthermore, he cannot be dropped into a close game when we are up because he’s a defensive liability. His passing ability is primarily being a safe passer - he doesn’t consistently break lines unless he’s given lots of space and time and that’s not what happens when we are trying to hold a late lead. We need good reliable defense first and foremost or at least someone who can shield the ball and break lines while under pressure: nagbe would be a better alternative here.

    we also don’t need him vs minnows either as Cuba showed us.

    At this point in his career, he needs a lot of compensations and can only be used if we build around his weaknesses. That the exactly wrong type of player to have on the roster as a rotational player. We need players we can drop in and improve the team defense or give instant offense. He gives neither.
     
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  7. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think takes that you can learn nothing from this game are intellectually lazy. But, the fact that Cuba is as bad a team as you are ever going to see in League A (even in CONCACAF), does mean that we didn't learn much. I mean, you never glean that much from one game. One good game vs a good team is still only one good game. No matter who the opponent is.

    When thing start to happen consistently (player or team), that's when you KNOW. Until then, it is just reading tea leaves.

    Still:

    I think the fact that we are starting to see the team generate chances (and goals) from practiced reads/patterns of play is a sign of progress. Sideline reporter remarked on it.

    Pulisic & Morris look to be our best wide options for now. I like Pulisic wide more at this stage. He is not a #10. And it is easier to get the ball in space wide. Plus, his presence out wide pulled players towards him, opening up space inside that McKennie (and at times Roldan) took advantage of.

    McKennie as a #10 is worth more looks. I have always thought it a good idea vs superior teams (puts more grit in the middle of the park), but worried he does not provide enough passing/offense vs inferior teams. Cuba was so poor it is hard to tell, but if that can work, then Adams + Bradley/Trapp/Yueill behind him is not a bad option.

    Cannon & Yueill looked impressive at times. Not saying either is a starter, but more looks merited.

    Roldan was ok.

    Ream is a much better LCB than LB, but is still a better LB than Lovitz (though of a different type).

    D did not have much to do.

    I have soured on Boyd. Arriola tries hard but is too wasteful for a front 4 spot. FB/WB is where he should play. Would love to see Weah compete for time up top and on the wing.

    Sargent had one nice finish & some nice runs, bit really didn't demonstrate he is much above Zardes (at this moment), and certainly not Altidore. But it IS gonna happen.
     
  8. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As for Nations League, I like it.

    Because of the weird qualifying format, some weird stuff happened (luck of the draw). Cuba is a unique case (defections), but is NOT better than Jamaica or Guatemala, who are in Leagues B & C.

    Put me in the camp that says this replaces pre-Hex WCQ. We played six of those last time (St. Vincent & the Grenadines, Guatemala, & T&T).

    Non-defection riddled Cuba is about equal to StV&G, Canada & Guatemala are roughly equal, and our SF/F games will likely be tougher than T&T.

    In sum, you'll get more tough tests in Nations League than you will from pre-Hex WCQ. So that is an upgrade. Also, these games are Gold Cup Qualifiers, on FIFA calendar, so players always have to be released. That was not the case for Car. Cup & Central American Cup, which sometimes led to goofy teams making Gold Cup. This is more likely to produce our best 16, which should make Gold Cup better as well.
     
  9. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From a team as broken and untalented as was the Cuba on that field, we can learn nothing as to how good we truly are by having looked good against them. A training exercise between an MLS club and a division two college team tells us nothing as to what that club is capable of in the league. A training exercise between Tottenham and Sutton tells us nothing as to how Tottenham will do in the EPL. The gap between us and Cuba in rankings is vast, and is fully equivalent to the gap between, say, a Benfica and a Gondomar S.C.
    This is not "intellectual laziness", it is intellectual honesty.

    Now, from Canada, maybe we learn something.
     
  10. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    im not sure i buy that the comp will be stronger than pre-hex rounds of traditional qualifiers, but i appreciate your take overall. the biggest complaint seems to be a loss of friendlies, but it gets completely lost that this simplifies/replaces those pre-hex qualifying rounds.

    nations league is designed for the sub-second tier teams, which- along with the primary effect (in terms of intl soccer) of mls being strengthening those same nations player pools- makes it pretty hard to see the upside is FOR us.

    i just think theres an oversimplified "we dont get to go play germany in berlin and argentina in buenos aires anymore!" (like those are things that happened all the time anyways) sentiment thats a little goofy. the fight is in not letting concacaf keep expanding and stretching this out strictly as a cash cow- which seems to be a lot more the primary concern in europe.
     
  11. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    multiple (DC United, Dortmund, Arsenal, Leeds....)
    United States
    Mar 17, 2007
    moving around the US every few years ....
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    https://www.espn.com/soccer/mexico-...gue-like-being-amateurs-again-mexicos-martino

    at least Tata is willing publicly call out the stupid spectacle that is the Nations League ....
     
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  12. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    multiple (DC United, Dortmund, Arsenal, Leeds....)
    United States
    Mar 17, 2007
    moving around the US every few years ....
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would rather just give them an extra week off to help with injuries and rest and reduce the overseas travel. Or hell just spite them all and only play a third string against the minnows. Then nobody will go to the matches - TV revenue will be minimal ... and maybe CONCACAAF will get the message.
     
  13. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    One of our biggest problems right now is hubris and arrogance.

    We just failed to go to the World Cup.

    Let's not pretend like any competition is "beneath us." Let's stop insulting our competition as "minnows."

    The League of Nations is an opportunity to challenge some of these younger players in games that actually matter. A good preparation for WCQing that's to come. Particularly the game in Toronto tonight.
     
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  14. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    multiple (DC United, Dortmund, Arsenal, Leeds....)
    United States
    Mar 17, 2007
    moving around the US every few years ....
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cuba with a bunch of defections is a minnow.

    It is pointless for our Euro players to come back and play against them.

    Pointless and risks injuries.
     
  15. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    nice call on this. Let’s see what you* think now after our first loss to Canada in decades. This is reminiscent of the unprecedented losses early on in Klinsmann’s second term.

    * let’s include those who repped this too:

    - @TrueCrew
    - @TCS35
    - @wixson7
    - @gogorath
    - @largegarlic
    - @2in10
    - @Craig P
    - @Quaker
     
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  16. wixson7

    wixson7 Member+

    May 12, 2009
    boulder
    Not sure i understand the question, but i'll give it a try..

    1) I liked the post from a while back, thought the post was insightful.
    2) I'm not happy with our performance, especially last night (which I was at and the US supporters section was fantastic!)
    3) I want the team to play well, regardless who the coach is.
    4) I don't like our player selection lately.
    5) Thought the players played like crap last night.
    6) I don't blame Sunil or Carlos or SUM or whatever on our performance the past few years, and I don't care that Jay and Gregg are brothers.

    I'm not a master tactician but I comprehend the approach of managers wanting to play out of the back, and I'm ok with that.

    And.. I'm in support of letting managers try a new approach and work to implement it, even if that means some failures.

    With that said, and having been at alot of the games this year, i'm not happy at all with where we are at. I also really care about the Hex and 2022 qualification, and bummed about playing like crap in GC/NL/friendlies, but my eye is on the Hex/2022.

    Not sure if I answered your question.
     
  17. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Thanks for the response. Does this mean that you think Berhalter’s system is a good one and is working based upon the Cuba win? That’s what the post that you called insightful said.
     
  18. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Dang, this is way too coherent a response!

    Question is - how much longer are you ok letting Egg try his new approach? Is there any progress you see, besides his awesome tactical approach against Cuba that elicited a loving post that you liked/agreed with?
     
  19. wixson7

    wixson7 Member+

    May 12, 2009
    boulder
    I thought the post was insightful and pleasant to read, but mostly rep'd it as a thanks for sharing that on this board. Not really saying that I agreed with Gregg's coaching style and approach.

    Berhalter's system is good if we are winning.
    Berhalter's system is bad if we aren't winning.

    At the moment, it doesn't look or feel good.
     
  20. wixson7

    wixson7 Member+

    May 12, 2009
    boulder
    So.... I'm a long time and very loyal travelling supporter of the USMNT, home and away. I like the atmosphere and the crowd and energy of a good supporters section. I will follow this team when they are good and when they suck.

    I rep'd the post because it was insightful and liked that it was shared. I wasn't making any commentary on the tactics.

    How long can I 'take it' with Gregg. Well, since I have zero say in the matter, I have to take it as long as he's the coach I guess.

    I'm trying not to get worked up in a huge rage, but I'm as frustrated as the next person on the state of the team.
     
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  21. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    You didn't ask me, but as someone who has been more supportive of Berhalter than most, I think the timeline is now dictating decisions.
    • If you don't already have a replacement list, you have to start creating one.
    • I'd let Berhalter coach November, and I think my requirement for retaining him would be to not only win the group, but win in definitive manner, especially against Canada.
    I am generally all for giving time and patience and change does take that, but we're not seeing step by step improvement -- in fact the exact opposite -- and we are less than a year out from qualifying.

    We simply cannot afford to be moving forward. The team is not as talented as people think due to injuries and form, and yes, some due to Berhalter's selection, but they played well below the talent even on the pitch, and that's worrisome part.

    There was keystone cops level execution. And that may not be Berhalter's fault. But the defensive setup is a disaster, and the abandonment of counterattacking a disaster, and if this team is really this unskilled, which I struggle to believe, then we need to go a different direction.

    The Berhalter of the Columbus Crew was a very pragmatic man from a tactics perspective. So I fear this isn't Berhalter, this is Earnie.

    But it's not working, and unless it REALLY works in November, and against Canada, you HAVE to pull the trigger because missing a second World Cup is beyond disaster.
     
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  22. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Fair enough. It's clearly a disaster now, and the concern I would have is that we're continuously lowering standards, similar to how it was with Brucie.

    When Egg was hired, do you think anyone would have been ok saying, a year into his gig, "wellllll, as long as we beat Cuba and Canada (Canada at home), I think he should remain the coach", after getting pummeled by Venezuela, Mexico twice, Jamaica, with zero good wins (except maybe his first two???).

    Say he wins in Cuba or wherever they play, and he beats Canada 3-0. Then is it ok? You're happy enough going into the Hex with the team having zero good wins, and basically zero good performances, effectively built around Bradley or Trapp for the 6th straight year?

    I've been right about this team for years, and I would advise extreme caution...
     
  23. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I think it depends on how the team plays against Canada. I think the team needs to look good, dominate, you can phrase it any way you like.

    And even then, I think you consider firing him and moving on. And by then, hopefully you understand your options. If those options are Jason Kreis or Tab Ramos, it's a different standard than if you think you can get someone more certain to be better.

    I mostly ignore the friendly results, good and bad, especially when we had shitty lineups mostly due to poor injuries, etc. And despite all the Berhalter hate, he's moved on from Trapp and very possibly moved on from Zardes.

    If we're talking competitive matches, we've had exactly one match where it could have been a good win -- Mexico. Until this match, we had all wins in matches that counted.

    It's more about the team looking progressively worse, movements being slow, the team clicking less and less. That's why we not only have to beat Canada, but we have to beat Canada in a manner that gives you confidence that things are replicable at least to qualify.

    If I were Earnie, I'd also want to understand Berhalter's plan to address the key issues. I am far from a "try anyone" person, but I'm also shocked he started Roldan and Lovitz in a real game. So I'd want to understand if he had plans to improve certain positions, and I'd want to understand if he thinks he needs to change his tactics.

    If there's no acceptance of a need to change certain things ... then I also think it's tough to retain.

    The real problem here is that I think Earnie much more violently believes in these choices even more than Berhalter. If our GM can't be pragmatic, we're in a lot of trouble.
     
  24. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I liked the job Berhalter did with Columbus. He did seem pragmatic-and seemed to be making the most out of a team with modest overall talent. The team played hard, and not infrequently had a solid defense and a dangerous attack. This USMNT he has "constructed" is so different, and so broken, that either something extraordinary happened to turn a reasonably competent MLS manager into General Egg.....or that Columbus Crew team owed much more to Higuain's field leadership than I had realized.
    Whatever the cause, Gregg has proven a bitter disappointment. But as the brother of Chicago House's Capo, fixing the problem meets all the Blazer of Resistance we would expect from that compromised organization.
    All this when we could least afford another colossal failure.
     
  25. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    You're definitely an optimist, which is great and needed in a time like this. The issue I have is that this isn't a club team, and thus you don't have all the time in the world. He's had a year, and literally not one semblance of a successful plan. I take that year and put more weight on that than maybe a decent result against Canada at home.

    The optimists are really dumbing down expectations, which I'm sure the USSF is happy about. We have the best collection of young talent we've ever had, and are now hoping for a result against Canada. That's not enough. Beating Canada doesn't mean anything. Hell, I wouldn't have even been impressed had they beaten Canada on Tuesday.

    A nat'l team manager needs to get cracking immediately. Nat'l teams aren't the situation for some far flung plan that takes 30 games and the same lineup to develop. You pick your 11 best players, and implement tactics and strategy that works best for them. Instead, he's building a system around Bradley, again, which hasn't worked since 2015/16 when Jones/Beckerman were there.

    And finally - considering only "competitive" matches is myopic. What qualifies? A Gold Cup where we played one game of legit consequence, against Mexico, and lost fairly convincingly? That argument makes me think you were absolutely pumped when we took home the GC '17 championship rather than giving Miazga more than 45 mins and even looking at Weston, who was breaking into the Schalke 1st team.
     

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