Nations League A, Camp 1, Cuba/Canada, Oct. 11/15

Before Adam's, there was Miazga and Yedlin. Add in Steffen and it is 4 in the last 5 years. So either play for NYRB so you can be sold to the same owner or it has only been top 6 EPL teams that will pay what MLS wants. I am fine with players being loaned but there some people who think it is a bad thing for some made up reason.

 

So we have gone from using lower division NCAA analogies to Sunday league without much if any training analogies.

My experience is when you get thrown out with the second team that doesnt know each other well you get what you describe. On the other hand, when it is just a lesser team, players tend to get more reps, see plays they wouldn't otherwise, and players are more dialed in defensively. You add in the pressure of relegation and it is a really good experience.

 

Pomykal has a lot of work to do before he plays at the Olympic games. Hopefully, we take this things seriously and bring all our top players. If they do, our midfield is Adam's, mckennie and Pulisic. Pomykal is going to be fighting for spot on the bench with Ledezma, Mendez, Mijaelovic, Durkin, Cappis, etc.

 

Are you aware how poor MLS was when Dempsey and Altidore played in MLS? That was around the time when people complained about Steve Ralston playing for the USMNT. The only difference between Ralston and all these crap players Berhalter keeps rolling out is that now there actually are other options.

Succeeding MLS back then was accomplishment.

 

No! It is an attitude that we only play quality players on the national team.

I dont get dont why people on here dont think our players can go 90 in two games with a three day break. How soft are you? How did you do it in college? You'd had to play 2 games a week for 2+ months.

 

I have never rated Wright but I would give him a shot over Zardes who more than 5 years older than him. wright still has time to improve where Zardes is who he is.

I would take Gooch over most players that have been called in. I think he is a similar player to Arriola. The only thing he hasnt done is come crawling back to mls.

 

No!

Yes!

 

So take a meaningless game and not even try for half of it. Good thing we dont need to improve.

 

I like that experiment more than thr Lovitz @LB experiment.

 

Clubs don't have to release players for the Olympic Games nor its qualifiers.

No way we see the likes of Adams, Pulisic and McKennie dressing up for the Guadalajara U-23 championship.

 

I, for one, kind of like Nations League. I think it will be good for CONCACAF, and ultimately, good for the USA.

These matches do mean something.

They are Gold Cup Qualifiers (top 2 in league A groups + league B group winners + 2 tier play in winners (league C winners v league B 2nds with winners v league A 3rds).

Further, these matches count as qualifiers for the FIFA rankings, which now determines the Hex teams. A flameout would be problematic in any edition. Though even finishing last in League A groups would retain a Gold Cup shot (but would be relegated).

Though I hate the new WCQ format, this Nations League (as Gold Cup Qualification) has essentially replaced the pre-Hex WCQ matches. And this offers more high end matches and less low end matches (for League A teams, at least) than pre-Hex WCQs did previously.

This Cuba team at home is as easy as Nations league will ever get. Canada won't be a cakewalk and the SF & Final, if we get there, will be legit tests.

Basically we traded useless WC qualification matches for this: a better GC qualification process. With a few less friendlies.

 

FWIW, Sept FIFA rankings of League A teams:

Group A: USA (21), Canada (75), Cuba (178).

Group B: Mexico (12), Panama (77), Bermuda (167).

Group C: Honduras (67), T&T (100), Martinique (unranked, not FIFA member).

Group D: Costa Rica (43), Curacao (76), Haiti (86).

Race for Hex:
Team: Ranking, Points.
1. Mexico, 12; 1,603
2. USA, 21; 1,545
3. Costa Rica, 43; 1,442
4. Jamaica, 47; 1,435
5. Honduras, 67; 1,359
6. El Salvador, 72; 1,327
-----------------
7. Canada, 75; 1,322
8. Curacao, 76; 1,320
9. Panama, 77; 1,316
10. Haiti, 86; 1,277
11. T&T, 100; 1,226

6th through 9th is tight.

 

qualifiers definitely arent, but im almost positive the olympics themselves are, essentially, "fifa dates" (teams cant refuse callups)

 

it's not that they can't handle it. technically the guys from couva handled their second game in as many days. no one came off on a stretcher.

it's a question of handling it WELL. surely you have played tournament soccer or something like that and on your third game of the day you are dragging a$$ but the game is decided by doing something more special than the other team, and the tension in those competing forces.

i used the example of teams playing MNF or Thursday NF. you are used to a rhythm and recover time. you suddenly have a game inside that loop. you're saying, well, but you played twice a week. this is more like a third game, or games on consecutive days. my college coach when we had something like that would sometimes play me every game and sometimes rotate me off the bench. and that was when otherwise i would start everything.

personally i got grouchy if i came in the second game as a mid or off the bench, but the coach's job is to be smarter than his players and get the team its results and his players the rest he thinks they need. i know my sophomore year when he went all ironman about training the team suffered a rash of injuries and at a point we got down to 18 healthy bodies to dress for a road game. toughening a team up excessively sometimes has the opposite effect.

last point, my bet is this youthful A/B team from last night puts the Canada lineup to shame. i think there is more talent coming up than is in the conventional A team. i don't buy that they aren't "quality." i wouldn't be suggesting them otherwise. what they haven't been given is their chance. and based on 7-0 we had some room to take a risk on finding new "quality." USMNT the past few years has a nostalgia and performance problem. bradley hasn't even done anything to earn foundational status anymore. he is living off rep. ditto brooks, yedlin, zardes, a list of them. at some point either earn the rep or quit pretending you're any less of a risk than holmes or morales or anyone who looked interesting for us or the U20s this year.

 

olympics are IOC not FIFA. there is no requirement to release.

https://resources.fifa.com/mm/docum...imc2014-2018fifaversionv05jan2017_neutral.pdf

there was no date for rio.

if teams often release players it's because for men it's U23 and as a result some of the rosterees are marginal kids. or some leagues like MLS play along. and some teams play along because it's really preseason. but it's not required and there regularly is some squabble over some chicharito type player who is not let go.

 

Last time it was left to the discretion of the clubs. I doubt it'll be different this time.

https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2015...s-clubs-soccer-rio-2016-qatar-2022-world-cup/

FIFA says soccer clubs don’t have to release players for Rio Olympics

Soccer clubs are under no obligation to allow their players to play in the Rio Olympic men’s tournament, FIFA said Friday.

“The event is not part of the international match calendar,” FIFA said in a press release. “However, FIFA is asking for support from the clubs to allow players who are called up by their national teams to be given the chance to be part of the Olympic experience.”

---

As you can check, the Olympic Games are not in the 2020 FIFA Calendar:

https://resources.fifa.com/image/up...2024-2709662.pdf?cloudid=p3ywicffz0zxeaomaajh

 

i think it would be fun as a use of what would otherwise be down time ie friendlies.

i think it's kind of gross as a qualifying tool along with rankings. to me it's a thumb on the scale and i think every team deserves an equal chance, and in something called qualifying and not something else that goes into a ranking that decides who goes what route for qualifying and then everybody but 6 is qualifying for 1/2 a slot and technically not that but instead a playoff for a 1/2 slot with a bad hex team.

you could fix the draw by 6 team groups which guaranteed some other big dogs.

but a lot of the snide comments on cuba and canada neglect they earned their way here. it's weird to be talking about merit and what we have earned and who we deserve and then teams that qualify to be with us we act like lack merit. it's the snob thing in different packaging. fifa is not letting us move regions. this is reality. this is where we live.

 

my point the other day is one reason we have recently not made it is the really good ones are basically graduated out of YNT play. i brought it up because for a work in progress senior team with games that count it's awkward if they are instead U23 for a camp or friendly, if we're not sure the senior guy is any better, or are perhaps even sure he's not.

i mean, i have people telling me play the best. shouldn't that include age group guys who could help the seniors.

you can run people out with the seniors and then drop them in as bonus players if they are available as U23s when qualifying hits. miles robinson (until hurt) was basically showing the line is fuzzy. we have several players as you suggest treated as "graduated" who won't play for them at all, despite being the right age. so to me when people are like he needs to be with the u23s instead that's a fuzzier statement than they realize.

personally i would call my best senior team regardless of age, or even trial/cap tie some kids, because they need it bad, and worry about the YNTs with the leftovers. the system is supposed to serve the big dog. one reason U23 isn't optimized is we prioritize the big dog. you can reprioritize U23 as an end in itself but you aren't going whole hog with pulisic and the like, and you might be doing that at some first team expense. and it wouldn't just be immediate expense, it's also the "sequencing" expense that we get into LoN semis (assuming) or qualifying next year, and i get to hear the coach marginalize them then, saying, "well, but they were busy with the olympic team and haven't had a chance to play with us." what should be a tool to id the best players to promote up can just as easily be used as a barrier, as, well, they aren't "one of us" yet. and that's one worry i have when a little too glibly it's like "well, but we want him with the u23s."

i don't think we should be that confident saying that until we're pretty set on a senior team roster and basically decide someone else is marginal and needs to be seasoned at U23.

 

MLS was even more "crap" when it was the backbone of the vaunted 2002 team. your argument does not compute.

also, i could get saying, well, but he was on ManU and "MLS was poor." but the implied argument here is to discount MLS historically but then the comparison is with eredivisie, meh, and worse, a guy with 1 assist and zero goals so far this season.

that's not "weighting," or "context," that's trying to sledgehammer all meaning out of anything MLS -- even productive players -- by saying a mere single assist in a second tier league, must be better. that's science denial. you might as well just throw down on the table "i am a snob and anything in europe is always better." stripped down that's all that argument is, because you're not even requiring the european to do a darned thing yet.

 

Yedlin signed with Spurs in 2014. Miazga with Chelsea in 2016. Adams with RBL in 2019. That is three American HGs sold in the last five years. Your post suggests you think that is a good number. Do you think the Argentina league has sold only three domestic U21s since 2014?

It is astoundingly poor record of developing players in MLS and selling them on to the next level. With 28 MLS teams, they should be selling 5-10 every window.

 

We're not going to get our best players released for qualifying.

But if Pulisic or McKennie or Adams want to play in the Olympics, they will work with their clubs to make it happen. This isn't just between the clubs and USSF. USSF can help, but the real push needs to come from the player themselves.

I think there's a good chance two of those three, at minimum, really want to do that.

 

I was just trying to supply facts. I think the numbers are horrible. I am surprised you would think that I thought that number was good.

 

He was unimpressive when we called him in awhile back and is now playing at a level below MLS. If he gets back into the Championship and is actually playing sure call him in but at this point calling for Gooch call-ups is akin to saying, "Why aren't we looking at this USL player that's dominating?"

 

Would clubs want to release players for the Olympics hoping that it will increase the players' value to sell them later?