Nations League A, Camp 1, Cuba/Canada, Oct. 11/15

My take is that they will improve but they will still feel underwhelming.

 

Pomykal is going to be on that Olympic roster. Assuming we qualify he'll play in the Olympics. Depending on how that goes and his FCD form, after that is when he'll be at his most valuable, if he plays up to expectations. That's when I imagine rumors will really start to fly around his next move. FCD can have a roster full of home growns and still sell one or two players a year. If it's not Pomykal that's leaving it will be Servania, Cerrillo or someone else.

 

theres context to everything. when youve been at a club 4 years (as wright was at shalke) i just dont that 21 is "young".

i understand everyone doesnt have a path like pulisic, but talking about how young he is now- in terms of his chelsea playing time- is a bullshit excuse. hes been a bunisliga player for 4 years. hes played heavily in 3 champions league campaigns. in that context i care less about age than r kelly does.

wright is now in his first full season as a pro player, after 4 or 5 as a reserve player. hes new, but not "young". if mendez, or tatigue or whoever takes 5 years getting to the first team i wont care that theyre technically only 21, 22.

 

people usually mention unwillingness to release players as a reason the U23s struggle but that's only part of the problem. the other part is usually we push our better players along and essentially "graduate" them out of even bothering.

cannon, pulisic, and mckennie are all the right age(s). but they aren't over in that camp. maybe if we made the olympics, but past a point we don't even think of appropriate age players that way. they "graduated." it reflects a more marginal status to be made available to U23.

i know we have YNT talent but we also have a crap NT bench and mediocre A team. i think at least one way in which the U23s exist is as a stealth B team that lets the NT HC stick the players he doesn't like someplace. i could see how that might benefit the u23s trying to qualify for a change.

but stepping back, do i want u23 qualifying or do i want the senior roster churned so it gets better, perhaps at the expense of several better u23s?? i want the senior team better.

i say this because every time i hear kind of a passive, well, he's a U23 player, isn't he, hem haw, re some of the marginal ones, i feel like we're losing something at the MNT level right now. and then i'm concerned this just drags on because what happens is they are gone from the NT til March, and then knowing our mentality, "are you going to just try them cold" if we make the LoN semis, and then "are you just going to try them cold" when we start the Hex, and it turns into a slow-walking of most of the YNT not already with the senior team, regardless how the senior team itself looks.

yeah, really, that circumstance, i'd rather graduate a few more upwards and sort out the u23s later on. like i said, there is a reason they end up like they do. i don't know if i see the upside of relegating a whole set of better options to age group play when the full team needs help. lewis or marcinkowski, fine, but i don't want this to serve like a moving roadblock to the U20s getting a senior team chance before march or even this cycle.

 

It's Cuba. A bunch of us could go out there and give them a game.

 

These upcoming matches are pretty much in the same class as all of the Gold Cup matches leading up to the final. That is if the US wins then that is exactly what they are supposed to do but should they lose or tie it is another failure on the part of Greg B. and the US squad.

Personally I expect the US to again under perform in these matches but I still expect wins. Cuba and Canada are so bad that I strongly doubt they are capable of beating the US even if the US plays well under their ability. However I could be wrong, Greg B. may well be bad enough to create a team and environment where failure, even against the odds, is quite possible.

The more MLS players there are that see the field the greater the chance that we will lose.

 

Jozy was a La Liga player. Wright, for all his troubles, still had done more in Europe than Jozy had at this age. He is young; strikers develop later.

Dempsey was in college at the same age.

If Taitague stays healthy and makes the first team, who cares he is 22? He instantly starts over every other winter on the USMNT. Same with Mendez.

Why argue so hard to flush kids down the toilet?

 

Cristiano Ronaldo and Leonel Messi are always there for their national teams, proud of being part of the games, even if friendly ones, yet we have folks here that as soon as a Yank is sniffing a half-decent European bench want him to stop coming to play for the NT.

SMH.

 

Based on what? where do you think he will go and what will be the fee?

 

the starters should start both games. Any minutes that go to the team is an absolute waste.

 

I cant follow your argument. I would take Ledezma over Pomykal and also prefer Mendez, but havent seen many clips of him since u20 WC.

It still isnt clear staying in MLS is good option. It isnt like we havent seen FCD players hyped when they are 19 and to have them trail off. MLS fans continue shout about outliers before they have actually proven anything.

 

what do you mean, "done more?" jozy had 9 goals in a season in MLS ie a first division at age 18. haji wright's next game will be his first time with 9 appearances in a first division in a season. i assume what we're doing here is holding up 14 goals in the german 5th division as "europe." it is literally true. it is practically misleading. when jozy was a year older than wright is now, he was at az with a 20 goal season followed by a 31 goal season. Wright has 1 assist (zero goals) in the attack friendly eredivise this season. you are straining horrifically. put it down before you pull a muscle.

re Dempsey, he came out at roughly wright's age and had 7 goals his first professional season. i guess this is being discounted as not europe compounded by him foolishly doing NCAA which led to all the rest. hmmm a reason college has historically produced almost every rookie of the year is the really good ones come out of the machine having been the focal point of the team and coaching for a period of years, and ready to play. there may be a shorter on ramp. now, it is a crapshoot to pick which one that will be, but that's a separate issue.

i agree there should be no flushing of kids who don't flush themselves. i think it is important whether one looks ready to make the transition to adult pro soccer from youth ball, as I think it mirrors basic level usefulness to a NT. but i also see some history of landon or pulisic or green being ready while they were often being used as a u19 and not a first teamer. the trick is anticipating the ones deserving this treatment. berhalter has in many ways disavowed this effort. he has only put effort into sargent as he transitions to first team, whereas sarachan was willing to anticipate. i don't quite get, for the very best our YNT pipeline has already identified, why we must lag the club figuring it out and can't anticipate.

but i think y'all are coming at this from the opposite angle. there is zero need to abandon a wright who doesn't immediately show he is at that "transition" point. but there is also no call for them to be fast tracked. if you take a bit, you become more like any old soccer player we scout. we'll bring you in when you transmit the signals of a player ready for the level. if ever. ching became a good striker in his mid 20s. long similarly as a back. there is no reason to literally give up on players for a scouted team. we should follow where the facts lead. but there is also no reason to give them special treatment anymore. if you chase the b.1 or holland and it takes til 22 to find your feet, ok, the u20 classes behind you may pass you by. but if you do get it together, we should still be watching. straightforward stuff, really.

to be clear, there's a list who never (or not yet) make the transition, zelalem for example right now. for every wright who eventually kicks in gear, there's a zelalem. if they spin their wheels but stay in hard leagues you kind of have to treat them as zelalem until they prove back otherwise. i mean, be real, we see where he splits time with the USL. a guy getting some time in the scottish second division or holland, is not necessarily even MLS material. i think there is so much eagerness to sell europe we're not acknowledging which leagues are basically a sideways step from MLS, not a step up. holland, scotland, english championship, lower german divisions = sideways.

 

i would like to see wright get a chance because he was supposed to be a big deal and has finally reached the level he can start in a good first division at a position where we need help and where i'd be shaking any trees i find.

but let's be real, he is in the fast break dutch league and is not near the seasons jozy, aj, or even novakovich put up. his stats are roughly equivalent this season to AJ at Hammarby.

 

+ TUDN (which is the old Univision Deportes or UDN)

That's what the horse said
https://www.ussoccer.com/

 

this to me mimicks the mentality that is so insecure about needing to beat panama 4-0 it doesn't think ahead to trying to beat tnt away. after 1-0 tonight the rest would be gravy. i would rather have more squeak the first game -- even if it's ugly to watch -- and enjoy winning the second as well.

it is also the approach that historically we have taken at gold cup groups and semi round qualis. get a result, rotate, get a result.

i grant that the b team here would be shockingly crappy but coloring within the lines GB has made, the big picture is all we need is two 1-0 wins. if you don't get the canada away game there becomes a real chance we miss it entirely.

 

Let's not kid ourselves, they would likewise wipe the floor with Pomykal and our "up and comers".

 

I'll be amazed if anyone wastes their friday watching this game. If you paid money, then wow.

 

DeAndre Yedlin, 21, was sold to Tottenham Hotspur. Not under-23 but Columbus sold Zach Steffen to Manchester City at 24.

Also, I think it is a little disingenuous to just ask about Americans under 23. MLS selling young players to Europe to earn more money is a recent thing that has been happening and MLS academies have started to really churn out players over only the last 2-3 years. Of course, there aren't going to be a lot of American players u23 sold yet but we have plenty of examples in MLS of players sold of other nationalities, showing that we do that in MLS:

• Carlos Gruezo (Ecuador), FC Dallas to FC Augsberg, aged 24
• Alphonso Davies (Canada), Vancouver Whitecaps to Bayern Munich, aged 18
  
• Miguel Almiron (Paraguay), Atlanta United FC to Newcastle United, aged 24
• Chris Richards (United States), FC Dallas to Bayern Munich, aged 18 (had signed a homegrown deal with FC Dallas so they got a transfer fee)
• Jack Harrison (England), New York City to Manchester City, aged 21
  
• Ballou Tabla (Canada), Montreal Impact to Barcelona, aged 18
  
• Fabián Castillo (Ecuador), FC Dallas to Trabzonspor, aged 24

So especially FC Dallas, we have examples of selling players to Europe beyond New York Red Bulls. Not all u23 but we should have some soon, mainly with Barco and Diego Rossi, but the name of the game now in MLS is to develop and sell.

 

Pulisic on the wing it appears

 

im not saying "flush" anyone. im not saying if anyone at a high level club takes a few years to break though theyre worthless. at best youre extrapolating what im saying out to a ridiculous end.

if mendez or gloster or soto are still playing in reserve leagues, or third divisions in 2021 and are sold/move on a free to a mid-table scottish team do you feel like they lived up to their potential/expectations? are they still huge prospects?

who excites you more right now- haji wright or rubio rubin? is gooch still one for the future?

is that in ANY way better a situation than a roldan or a baird (other than possibly a paycheck, which has zero to do with finding your best national team players)? but the only point im making is this: is anyone referring to THOSE guys (rubin, gooch, roldan, baird) as "kids"?

sure, haji is young compared to, i dont know, freaking wondolowski? i guess but in soccer terms he is what he is at this point. can he find a good fit, be a solid eerstedivise st? sure. could he come to mls and be a zardes level scorer? maybe.

anything about banning them from the pool for life is some completely made up nonsense you just throw out based on nothing ive said.

 

i think hes an average (at best) player, but at least lovitz will actually get to play for once. bonus for saving me from my now-customary reaction of disbelief and fury when hes routinely been the first sub off the bench.

ream played probably his best match in a us shirt against uruguay so im glad he will be central again.

man, yueill and roldan...thats not remotely interesting. im already disappointed in how many times we move the ball into the attacking third outside of long balls or turnovers.

a little curious to me yedlin doesnt start this one. to be clear hes the first rb on the depth chart for me- but coming off injury this seems like the game to use him. canada, while obviously more talented than usual, still arent remotely the danger team theyre built up to be around here (especially considering our misadventures) but i feel more than secure with cannon (or lima for that matter) in that one.

so either we are saving him for the "tougher game"- which is sketchy with a newly returned player- or not planning to use him. either way just seems kind of weird.

 

Uninspiring line up. Is that all the talents we have?

Aren't these meaningless games where you try to find and bleed in the young blood?

 

Don’t bet on that... Watch Roldan get the nod on the wing.

 

Genuine question is it even possible for sargent to play well enough to earn the start against Canada