England Senior Team General Discussion Thread

Grealish would be nice, only if for the reason that I think his game would be enhanced by playing for teams dominating possession which Villa haven't been since promotion.

 

I'm not sure how much we're going to enjoy Mount in this team. I'm not sure his ball retention is much different to Dele Alli's.

 

His pass success rate is 81% which is alright given the type of player he is (for reference Maddison is 78%).

The bigger issue with Mount is he needs to do more in a 90 minutes and get himself on the ball more - but he's still only 20. That kind of influence will hopefully come with age.

 

Tbh I've not actually watched Mount or Chelsea much this season so my knowledge on his current level isn't very good. However, whenever I watched him last season, he did seem to have a worrying tendency to drift out of and not effect games at all. I remember watching him in the games against Leeds(a) and the two Forest games and he just seemed to be on the periphery.

I am beginning to get a bit concerned by Southgate's preference for midfielders who are either runners, destroyers or goalscorers rather than technicians and schemers. We have been given the lesson this doesn't work the hard way against the Netherlands, Croatia, Spain(Wembley) to name a few. We also learned it even more painfully with the golden generation and the treatment of Scholes.

 

Roverman frantically scouring Maddison's background for any hint of Nigerian ancestry.

 

yeah it's close I agree

 

it has more to do with the type of player he is than age IMO, besides ball retention skills can't be measured on the sole basis of pass success rate.

Overall I don't think Mount and Barkley should compete for the same spot

 

I think they do if we're playing a 4-3-3, it seems Henderson is undroppable and no chance Mount takes one of the forward slots, especially as CHO will probs be back by the next break.

 

If the right side is going to be Sancho and TAA I can understand why Southgate would want extra cover from someone like Henderson on that side of the midfield.

 

I think Henderson makes pretty good sense with Winks at the base of the midfield. It's only combining him with Rice that makes it very hard to construct a balanced three.

 

Our squad is lacking a load in caps right now. Obviously experience means nothing unless the players are good, but we've had constant churn under Southgate and it'd have been nice to be heading into next summer with a whole load of guys with 30/40+ caps.

One reason why if healthy, I'd like Alli, Stones + Walker back in.

I'm sure people will say 'well this group will grow together' but in reality that hasn't happened. Look at all the 'young' players we've brought to tournaments in the last decade and how many haven't been back multiple times.

 

I had a similar thought the other day. Quite remarkable that the fourth-most capped player in the squad is 21-year-old Marcus Rashford.

 

Sorry, but experience for the sake of it is no reason to take players. On the flip side of the too much youth doesn't work argument, how many times have we gone for experience and seen it not work? Experience is obviously a benefit, however the actual quality of the player's you've got and their ability to fit the team's philospphy and system is far more important.

Also, you talk about taking Alli for his experience, but what has he ever won? Experience is only valuable if it's experience of actually winning things and coming out on top in big big games. Otherwise, it can actually be counterproductive, if as is the case with someone like Alli, they've got so used to losing big games that they develop mental scars and begin to lack the belief to win finals and semi-finals.

However, if by experience you just mean players with lots of experience in terms of game time, there's plenty. Sterling, Kane, Maguire, Trippier, Henderson and even Pickford have all been around for at least 1 tournament and have lots of caps for England now.

 

Only 6 games to go till the tournament squad is named. Another reason why time is fast running out for Grealish, Maddison, AWB + anyone else to make a big impression. Maddison will probably still get a chance to make his debut, but Grealish would have to be a real bolter to make it in from his current standing. Even just for a cameo, let alone a Euros squad place.

Shaw, Loftus-Cheek, TAA, Chillwell, Gomez, Winks all heading into next summer on less than 15 caps probably isn't how things were hoped to go.

Guys like Rose + Barkley are hardly nailed on and they're two of the most capped players. Southgate running out of time to tinker.

 

I said that in my post.

Kane, Henderson + Sterling are experienced.

Trippier only has 17 caps. Maguire, 22 and has never played a CL game.

International teams are 'teams.' A level of consistency and familiarity is massive and we see it every summer. There's a balance to be found. England's squad for tomorrow has 14 players with less than 10 caps.

 

Which makes it all the more bizarre then he didn't give Gomez, Winks or Maddison any minutes against Kosovo or Bulgaria. Also, there was an argument for calling up Grealish even before the withdrawals just to get him acclimatised.

 

But it's not just as black and white as the number of caps though with regards to experience, those two players have been to and been a fixture in a world cup semi-final team. They therefore count as other members of the team/squad with experience of playing in big tournaments which is the most important thing.

The flip side of the experience argument is that the more games a player has had, the more chances to impress and show their quality they've had. In Alli's case, he's simply never put in a performance when we've most needed it, whilst Stones has never been dependable and always has a mistake in him. I am open to Walker coming back if Trippier fails to keep up his current form throughout the season or AWB fails to mature and develop enough to justify selection this season for whatever reason. For the other two though, I feel it could and should be a long way back, as their form and performances since the world cup have left a lot to be desired and better options are emerging in their respective spots.

 

Is there much tinkering left to do? Right now I'd put good money on Pickford, Stones, Maguire, Chilwell, J. Henderson, Sterling, and Kane being part of the first 11 next summer. Right-back is a battle between three or four good options, and Sancho v Rashford will hopefully resolve in favour of the former before long. That only leaves two midfield spots to settle. That isn't a huge amount over the course of a full season.

 

ht_hu - fees like you took my post that alluded to it being nuanced and not just 'caps = good' and have decided to run with me saying 'caps = good' anyway.

Maguire isn't experienced though, he's getting there and gives some stability to the squad but you're stretching things by suggesting he's 'experienced.'

6 games to go before the squad announcement, how many games has Maguire even played with his potential partner? If it's Gomez, he needs a run with him. As we're closing in on the tournament it feels like we're not honing in on a settled side/squad who have had a lot of reps together.

I think it's important to think about. Currently, we've got Tomori, Gomez, Keane + Mings all in the squad. All of whom have barely played for England or with their teammates. Need to focus the minutes on 1/2 of them now and then probably have Stones back in.

By tinker, I meant more for squad places + new debutants rather than first XI. Mount + Winks probably need heavy minutes going forward and that leaves little room for Maddison or anyone else to come in.

 

I do think we should see a bit more tinkering once we have qualified officially. Given how much pressure there is with the England job, the old "if it ain't broke don't fix it" has probably been Southgate's line of thinking throughout this process. I also think there is reason for optimism if Southgate does tinker in the fixtures between now and then that someone could break into the team and earn themselves a starting spot for the summer whether that's Tomori, Maddison etc. We forget that wasn't Livermore a fairly regular presence in the qualifiers for Russia yet was nowhere to be seen when it came to picking the squad for the tournament.

 

If you mean that you don't just want players thrown in at the last minute and that you want them to get a run of games before the tournament then I couldn't agree more. Obviously it's essential that the likes of Maddison, Mount etc become starters from now on if they are going to be starting next summer.

I misread/misinterpreted your original post as saying you wanted Alli and Stones in the team because they have more caps than the players who have replaced them in the squad. My counterargument was that I believe they shouldn't be in based on their poor form and bad performances for England in big games in the past Stones against the Netherlands, Alli against pretty much anyone.

 

I would take the words of someone who thinks we played a 4321 with a pinch of salt.

 

If we played 4-3-2-1 then you could fit Maddison perfectly. I just wonder who the journalist thought the 10 was in our last two games. I can see why he would now opt for a 4-3-2-1 with more insurance at the base of midfield after how leaky we were in defensive transitions vs Kosovo. My personal opinion is that Mount and Maddison are both best as 10s too.

I would also be good to have more than one system given the disruption injuries etc can have on a tournament selection.

 

Assuming you mean him playing in one of the two spots behind the striker, not sure I fancy that tbh. That would mean dropping Sancho in addition to playing our best player in Sterling more centrally where he has never been as effective.