2019 U17 World Cup cycle

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by kba4life1, Oct 22, 2017.

  1. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Yeah, but it was a conversation.

    Bello's form seems to be getting good just in time. I think Scally will be a liability. If USSF thinks Scally has a tremendous ceiling, it is still worth it to bring him. U17WC is for development after all.

    6 of 7 defenders are fullbacks. Don't see that often. One of the most in form fullbacks (Tolkin) didn't even make it. I thougth Cuevas was pretty good too. Just a fullback rich year.
     
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  2. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Is Pynadath the biggest snub in this group? Tomkinson or Tolkin or Sagir Arce might be bigger snubs just this year.

    McKennie was the biggest snub since I've been paying attention. Llanez would be next. I'm sure some around here go back far and Richie Williams was there awhile and is one of the true idiots that is continuously employed by US Soccer. So, there were probably others.
     
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  3. zlebmada

    zlebmada Member

    United States
    Jan 16, 2018
    I think Kobe's gonna be fine. He'll do the U17 World Cup, and then he's certain to be in some kind of USYNT camp in January, hopefully the same type of mega-camp we had in 2018. Then he probably moves to Europe quietly a la Llanez and starts training, and then he's on a U19 team in Germany or Holland by August.
     
  4. zlebmada

    zlebmada Member

    United States
    Jan 16, 2018
    Arce went 90 in Copa MX a week ago and to my eyes looked really good for a 17-yr-old against Liga MX competition. I'd say he's the biggest snub followed by Tolkin and Cuevas, but again, I don't think there's a clear right answer on any of this and I'm basically fine with the roster.
     
  5. ielag

    ielag Member+

    Jul 20, 2010
    McKennie definitely.

    In 2009, Wilmer had a rule that he wouldn’t select a player that wasn’t at Bradenton full time. Which meant Lletget, Wood, and Gyau were all left off. Lletget and Gyau were on the qualifying roster but moved to Europe right after.
     
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  6. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    I don't want to drag this out into an actual debate because I don't feel that strongly about it, but none of those guys had anything close to an appearance for a Champions League semifinalist -- no matter what the circumstances were for him to get into that scrimmage.

    In previous generations, Pynadath would be a type of player that our fanbase would be watching [reading about] intently hoping and praying that everything works out for him, and he ends up starring for the senior team. The fact that he's a U17 afterthought while progressing at Ajax is yet another sign of tremendous progress, in my opinion.
     
  7. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I totally agree with this. There seems to be a group of guys who are anti-hyped. I felt Weah, outside of some on this forum, was seen as a name only and a waste of a roster spot. Pynadath has been mocked every step this month, from Jong Ajax "filler" to first team, "just filler".

    You have to be picked over a whole bunch of other top prospects (everyone at Ajax is a top prospect) to become "filler".

    From what I see, and hear, Pynadath is just coming off a growth spurt. That could be why he is being moved up to more physical competition. It could be why he looks a little lanky still. He has also moved up fast, which could explain his off the ball confusion.

    Pulisic/Llanez/Reyna/Pynadath they can all beat guys consistently on the dribble. That is pretty rare. U21 players that can do this are going for $70-$150MM on the transfer market. Taitague too, but he can't stay healthy (maybe neither can Uly). It is a type of player we seem to be developing.
     
  8. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    Seems to me there's little incentive for teams to play academy signings unless they are absolutely convinced they'd help the team or, I suppose, their results don't matter much. They don't really benefit if the guy outperforms, and if something bad happens (ie, he gets hurt) nobody wins. That does't really dispute the broader point, but the entire setup has always felt a bit weird to me.
     
  9. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    One of the weirder experiences of my sporting life was coaching soccer 20 years after I largely stopped playing (other than some rec ball in college). Just coaching a little team at a private school in the Sierra Nevada's, we would scrimmage throughout the short little season (played tiny little schools dotting the California/Nevada border in Quincy, Loyalton, Portola and Chester), and when I played with them, it was shocking. Like most of you, I imagine, I played all the sports as a kid, probably best at Football, then soccer and baseball, but when I played again in the scrimmages it was like I had been given an entirely new, updated version of vision from my teenage soccer playing self. I wasn't a selfish player as a kid, I passed probably a bit too much for my own good over taking shots, but in these scrimmages as an adult I could see the whole field, all the options, rarely missed a run developing, saw everything, and when you compared that to my vision as a kid, it was just like a blind man, versus some sort of insect w/the most evolutionary well adapted eyes.

    I have no idea what the hell happened, or how bad my vision was as a teen in comparison, but it was genuinely crazy, the difference, playing as an adult, versus as a 6-22 year old.

    Part of me doesn't want to believe Pynadath could be that clueless, but then when I think back to the blatantly obvious difference of my childhood soccer playing self, versus my adult self (and my comparison is primarily there, I didn't play often enough in college to really get a feel for if anything had changed), I do find it totally plausible, that he just flat out hasn't developed that vision or soccer brain yet (and yes, I saw that utterly bizarre lack of a run on twitter from last weekend and Mendez, it was confounding, small sample size, but truly bizarre, like not running the route out as a WR when you're the first option on the play).
     
  10. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nobody really knows about Pynadath.

    Pro-Pynadath: From what we see it short highlight clips and limited viewing, it looks like there's something there.

    Anti-Pynadath: All we get to see are short highlight clubs. It means nothing.

    As far as I'm concerned, I have no clue how good Pynadath is. I also know that our wingers aren't chopped liver. They may not be Arjen Robben, but they're not chopped liver.

    Just because somebody is a living human being at a youth club in Europe, it doesn't mean they're better than domestic players. We've been thru that a million times. The amount of talk on these boards about Vincenzo Bernardo of Napoli really was staggering back in the day. "He's at Napoli, he must be better than all of our domestic youth players. Its an outrage that we're not calling him up." Came back to the states and wasn't good enough to latch on to the Harrisburg City Islanders. Brandon Manzonelli of Villarreal. Stunk. Flat out stunk. Came back and wasn't good enough for the St. Louis Ambush of the MASL. Stunk.

    So let's aaaaaaaaall take a deep breath about Pynadath. We just don't know which way its gonna go.
     
  11. TarHeels17

    TarHeels17 Member+

    Jan 10, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think Wicky figured out that he should play Reyna on the wing and Busio in the middle from the last tournament, but Busio is playing the Muller role rather than a creative player. His best qualities are without the ball, not with it, and Wicky knows that now. I suspect it'll be him paired with Kayo and Leyva for some defensive fortification in the middle.

    Wicky has shown nothing but great ability to coach in game, and his selections have been more than adequate. "Too many good players"- you're arguing about the fringe. Saying this about a coach who had our U17s play better against Mexico than they ever have is negative to the point it's hard to take the opinion seriously.

    I'm curious why he doesn't pull a Kayo and sign with OCSC. I'm sure they've talked about it so I'm curious what the rationale is. I'm guessing it's some ridiculous Gary Kleiban notion.
     
  12. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    Pynadath is seemingly at/ahead Dest schedule, Pynadath is seemingly ahead of Mendez who is 2 years older. Would Mendez make this U-17 team? All Bernardo hype was generated by Bernardo himself and his agent.
     
  13. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I haven't liked Bello's play since returning from injury. He doesn't look as athletic, and his defense is still a problem. He might've had some good offensive actions yesterday and maybe he even played well (I didn't watch the game, so I can't say), but I wouldn't say he's in top form yet.

    As for Scally, we don't know about his form. He scored in his most recent game for NYCFC U-19's, and has played a few games, so I don't think fitness will be an issue. I would caution not to make too much about how he played in qualifying. He had surgery not too long after that tournament. He might've been playing injured during that tournament, and we know he's much better than some of those players he struggled against, so I suspect that's why he struggled.
     
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  14. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I'll throw my vote towards Jonathan Gomez being the biggest snub. I hope we fans aren't looking back on his omission in two years and he's playing for the Mexican program, while we're lamenting that Armour (a competent U-17 player, but pretty low ceiling) was picked ahead of him. I'm not even convinced Bello's a better player than Gomez right now.

    There are many snubs though. Among the 02's, I'd consider Wilson, Penagos, Dunbar and Arce to be among the bigger snubs.

    Among the 03's, aside from Gomez, I think Chifamba definitely should've been on this team, and I think Cuevas definitely should've been on this team. With the lack of wing options, Chris Garcia and Sam Sarver wouldn't be bad options either. Casey Walls might've not been a bad option at CB.
     
  15. Mmm. Have those guys any clue about how much the top Dutch clubs (PSV, Feyenoord, Ajax,AZ Alkmaar) spend on their academies? Do they really think those clubs throw their money on "fillers"?
     
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  16. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    Technically speaking, Pynadath is ahead of where Dest was as a U17, but keep in mind that Dest rose late at Ajax. He went from U19s to first team in half a season. Despite not playing up at Ajax at the time (I think), he made the US team and looked pretty damn good in limited minutes as a backup to Goslin. Hard to believe that a player in Pyndath's situation didn't make this roster, but maybe him not being a full time starter is symptomatic of questions about his all around game. It certainly ain't for a lack of ability dribbling at opponents.

    I have been saying that Freeman has similar tools as Reyna, without the utter domination. Pynadath might be Reyna's equal in that sense... just without the physique and end product. I can see those things developing as he gets his feet under him though.
     
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  17. Balerion

    Balerion Member+

    Aug 5, 2006
    Roslindale, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Every club has filler because "filler" is a relative term. Nobody has a U19 squad that is entirely populated by prospects with an honest-to-goodness chance of making the first team, so somebody has to play the rest of the minutes.

    At a club like Ajax, their "filler" may well still be fairly solid players...but there's still filler relative to the quality of Ajax's academy.
     
  18. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I'll take 2015 any day. Two players of that caliber :).

    That said, I don't think we should expect more than the 2-5 or so that history dictates. It's not that this class has less talent. It's just the fact that there's a lot of development left between now and a player's 20s. And as much as I like Reyna, I don't think he's as guaranteed as many here believe.

    Add in that I think there's a class or two ahead of them that are solidifying spots...

    I find it fun to follow these players, and I'm rooting for all of them.

    But if we're looking for a sign that our development is going better, the answer isn't in the quality of the U17 team. It's in the absolute volume of players we pump out.
     
  19. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    Pynadath is paid more than $120K per year. Sure they can find less expensive local filler of his age.
     
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  20. LuckofLichaj

    LuckofLichaj Member+

    Mar 9, 2012
    That second paragraph....I hope you’re blind drunk.
     
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  21. Balerion

    Balerion Member+

    Aug 5, 2006
    Roslindale, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Quite possibly. I don't have a strong take on Pynadath specifically.
     
  22. ielag

    ielag Member+

    Jul 20, 2010
    #1547 ielag, Oct 11, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
    I would’ve picked him, but Mexico snubbed him too. I don’t think he’ll exactly turn and run to them immediately.
     
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  23. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
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  24. Tigerpunk

    Tigerpunk Member+

    Jun 17, 2004
    Am I missing something or does our roster have 5 wingbacks and 2 centerbacks?
     
  25. Runhard

    Runhard Member+

    Barcelona
    United States
    Jul 5, 2018
    Wilson is the alternate goalie so if one of the top 3 drop out, he will be going. I don't think Gomez has ever played wit the US02 other than the time he was brought in for the Nike Friendlies but then released back to his team before the games started. If Gomez keeps progressing like he is, he will have plenty of time in the US National team jersey. I don't see him choosing El Tri over the US and letting his Dad know that every time I see him. :) Main thing I hope for JOGO is he gets to Europe ASAP like Johan. Would hate to see him turn out like Pomykal and sticking around MLS until he is 23.
     
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