Nations League A, Camp 1, Cuba/Canada, Oct. 11/15

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by thedukeofsoccer, Jul 23, 2019.

  1. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    #476 DHC1, Oct 7, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
    why do players in other leagues have to be clearly better to warrant inclusion? That’s pure favoritism there and fully unwarranted.

    That is hugely detrimental to the USMNT - gains are made incrementally.
     
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  2. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Cuba is dead meat. Canada, on the other hand, may give us trouble. We've always shadow-boxed against them, beating them without looking comfortable.

    The last time we pummeled the Canucks was back in 2003 in a friendly (4-0). For a competitive game, one has to go further back to 1997, 3-0 and 0-3 in qualifiers.
     
  3. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    I would think a lot of people would disagree with this statement. They all showed better than the guys that Berhalter keeps calling up.
     
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  4. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    MLS may be stronger, but the American players arent.

    Again, Holmes isnt coming off an injury.
     
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  5. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    DE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, Canada could give a game. I would put Alphonso Davies on Pulisic’s side. It would be an interesting match up as CP is the more cultured player but Davies is stronger with a higher work rate and could provide fits defensively to CP while exploiting any space left on a counter.
     
  6. matabala

    matabala Member+

    Sep 25, 2002
    #481 matabala, Oct 7, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
    Good point...Berhalter is the ultimate corporate man. When The Corporation says jump, he asks how high.

    Say what you will about Klinsmann, but he was a man who knew his own mind.
     
  7. UncagedGorilla

    Barcelona
    Sep 22, 2009
    East Bay, CA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    @bsky22 covered pretty well what I see as the differences between MLS and the Championship but I'll also add that even some of the lower teams like Milwall and Stoke have very passionate fan bases that show up en masse and don't just sit on their hands. The pressure to perform is higher and the environments are absolutely more hostile, something that we shouldn't discount when playing in CONCACAF. And while MLS is definitely getting better, the level is still way more varied than in the Championship. You have quality all the way from Atlanta, who could contend for a playoff spot, down to Cincinnati, who may get demoted from League One.

    But as much as I defend the Championship and will continue to do so, there are only maybe 2 or 3 Championship players worth more call-ups/minutes. Ream and Miazga come over and generally start. Holmes comes over and looks like one of our best CM's. I think Robinson and Lichaj should be in the mix but other than that, not sure anyone is clamoring for CCV or Geoff Cameron (who almost certainly would help but at 34, maybe keep trying other players until we're desperate). The reality is we need to be looking at who we have on the roster that can't cut it and trying alternatives regardless of where they are currently playing.
     
  8. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    He used that mind to make the single most indefensible coaching choice I have ever suffered through as a fan.
     
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  9. vexco

    vexco Member+

    Nov 2, 2013
    You're arguing as if the default should be MLS players just because. Why should a player in a similarly strong/perhaps stronger league have to show they're clearly better just to dislodge a player who seems to be cemented on every roster but has shown he's not good enough? Just seems backwards.
     
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  10. vexco

    vexco Member+

    Nov 2, 2013
    starting the same lineup in Couva that he did 3 nights previous? Oh wait.
     
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  11. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Leaving off a primadonovan and getting results is much more defensible than Arena tearing the team apart and whatever Berhakter is doing now.

    The only time the team has been primarily MLS players has been 2017 & 2019. Do you think it is a coincidence the team looked so bad? I cant think of worse years in USMNT history.
     
  12. largegarlic

    largegarlic Member+

    Jul 2, 2007
    I'm pretty worried about the Canada game, to be honest. This is literally and figuratively their World Cup. They probably need to beat the US at least once in Nations League to have a shot at jumping El Salvador for the final spot in the Hex, and they desperately want a win over one of the CONCACAF big boys to show they're an emerging force in the region.

    From watching them at the GC, I'd say their defense is VERY suspect, but they have a very good GK to cover over a lot of dumb mistakes and have legit firepower up front. If the USMNT is going their "slow, indecisive pass around the back until they force a pass and lose it" thing, Canada WILL score goals.
     
  13. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    The 12 month period between November 2016 and October 2017 would be the worst if it was 1 calendar year. 4 losses with catastrophic consequences, equally split between the two years.

    I'd say 2015 and 2018 were the worst, if we're going by the calendar.
     
  14. cyberthoth

    cyberthoth Member+

    Nashville SC
    Aug 7, 2000
    Nashville, TN
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think there's some misunderstanding in the intent of what I was trying to say here. For the most part we agree I don't blame a player like Bradley for example for taking more money to automatically start in MLS over fighting it out for less money in Italy. I do disagree with you that such a move hindered Bradley/Altidore and other's developments. They're good players for sure but they would've been better if playing on a team in a better league.

    Obviously you are right in that they would be worse not playing in a better league. It's a risk that doesn't always work out but on average I feel like our National Team is stronger when its core players are playing in one of the big 5 leagues.
     
  15. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I criticized that in advance but it is defensible. Nobody predicted that even a fatigued team would lose.
     
  16. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Good (enough) results don't make up for the stupidity of the move.

    There is a huge thread about it. I have nothing further to say.
     
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  17. cyberthoth

    cyberthoth Member+

    Nashville SC
    Aug 7, 2000
    Nashville, TN
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm sorry but this is just a silly. I never said players in other leagues have to be clearly better to warrant inclusion.

    What I said is it's silly to get bent out of shape because Greg prefers player A who plays in MLS over player B who plays in the English Championship or on a really crappy Dutch team.

    We don't know why he prefers one player over the other but none of the players people are freaking out over have shown to be world beaters. In some cases, Zardes vs every forward not named Sergeant and Altidore for example, those of you freaking out are clearly just wrong. (note I am not a fan of Zardes but its pretty obvious he's the 3rd best forward we have currently by any reasonable measure. I hope this changes soon)
     
  18. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    The point isn't that if you put Lovitz into the Liverpool 11, he becomes better. Nobody would think that. But you can't get into Liverpool by staying in MLS your whole career. And you can't win the World Cup with Lovitz.

    It is not an opinion, again it is fact. Your players have to be in the UCL. Of course, that means your players have to be the best players on the best teams. Duh. But you don't become that by just looking for PT in whatever league you can be guaranteed that. Which was your prescription. Your idea of dropping to whatever level guarantees PT would relegate the USMNT to #60 in the world.
     
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  19. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Who do you rate higher, Lovitz or Sweat?
     
  20. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    what you specifically said was

    seems like you were saying they had to be clearly better as quoted above. If you didn’t mean clearly better, why did you write that?
     
  21. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    if thats really a question we, as fans, have to even consider theres just no point in caring about this team.
     
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  22. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Right... it’s like the Bradley vs Trapp question. Why is that even a question that anyone’s asking.
     
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  23. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Horrible results confirm that it was actually and not just an opinion of irrational fans. Removing multiple starters is insane.
     
  24. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Were you at the last U23 camp to see Aaronson against his peers? Because there have been reports that Aaronson was the top performer that camp. Or do you think "potential" tops everything?
     
  25. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Those are the reports. But it is still a week long camp and one youth Friendly. Aaronsen has much more of a track record to look at than that. He plays in a league with a bunch of other U21 Americans and taking one small sample out of all that is probably not wise.

    Beyond Aaronsen vs. his peers, setting the precedent for excelling for the U23s gets you a USMNT call is a good thing. In the past 10 months, I've seen things that I think were good ideas from GB and it turns out to have been coincidence or dropped. So, we will see next month if rewarding U23 excellence continues or was just an excuse to deflect questions about including Aaronsen.
     
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