Don't tell me that the VAR Thread is still going?

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by EruditeHobo, Jun 23, 2019.

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  1. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It looks a really silly, sure, but taking issue with that is taking issue with the rule. I don’t know why this has to be said two dozen times. You could 2nd guess any really close offside call with similar logic about the letter vs spirit of the law, but it doesn’t make sense to allow this one just because he’s a tiny bit less offside than Raheem was, or CP was in the supercup, right? Even in that blurry picture they show him slightly ahead... what can I say, it’s offside.

    I mean, I’m not even defending VAR... to me this isn’t even a VAR issue.
     
    delaynomo repped this.
  2. SamScouse

    SamScouse Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Toronto
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    I'll repeat:
    - the offside rule exists to prevent the attacking team getting an unfair advantage.
    - the way VAR is used, defenders are now given an unfair advantage since an attackers being deemed to have an advantage in situations where they obviously do not. case in point above.

    VAR is making an ass of the offside rule.
     
  3. CB-West

    CB-West Member+

    Sep 20, 2013
    NorCal
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    So why should the linesmen call off side at all - especially on anything close? In the case of TAA - they took away a good chance...I'm sure that is not the first, nor will it be the last...if they don't raise the flag, and a player is off, and it results in a goal...it'll get called back...if it doesn't result in a goal...just keep playing...(but then you raise the issue of how far back do you go to reset the play...)
     
  4. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well that linesperson ********ed up.... they’re told to hold the flag so I don’t know why they did that. Your guess is as good as mine.
     
    CB-West repped this.
  5. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You can say that’s what the offside rule is “meant” for, and in general you’re right, but the actual rule is no part of the attacker that can score a goal is to be closer to the goal than that of the 2nd to last defender. There’s nothing about “gaining advantage” when it comes to the actual definition of being in an offside position in the rulebook.
     
    delaynomo repped this.
  6. SamScouse

    SamScouse Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Toronto
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    these are silly comments. I get the impression you've never played the game. do you know what "goal hanging" is? ever played a game with no ref / linesmen ?

    I'm talking about the intent of the rule, which is self-evident - the rule book doesn't state why the rules exist. examples:
    - does the rulebook state that a team gets an advantage if they deliberately kick an opponent, so fouls aren't allowed? (no)
    - does it explain why a goalie can't use his hands outside the box? (no)
    - does it say why there is a rule about the shape of the pitch? (no)
    I'll stop now .... :rolleyes:
     
  7. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’m talking about what they are interpreting when looking at offside position. How my playing resume is relevant to the top professional league in the world interpreting their own rules I really don’t know, I’m happy to go over it though if you want, but it’s not going to change what I said which was simply a fact.
     
  8. delaynomo

    delaynomo Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    You have to have a rule. I would rather it be objective and unarguable than purely subjective.
     
  9. SamScouse

    SamScouse Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Toronto
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    1, so you're OK with the rule now giving a patently unfair advantage to defenders (as opposed to the original intent, to attackers)?

    2. you're saying VAR offsides = some kind of science? it's human beings deciding the EXACT PRECISE millisecond that the ball was passed and hitting a stop button (which itself takes time :) ). a bunch of ppl reviewing that segment of the action would almost never agree on it.

    some ppl watch too much CSI.
     
  10. zaqualung

    zaqualung Member+

    Jun 17, 2015
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    It was a penalty - i think it conforms to the test of: if it had been called no-one would have argued with it. Least of all the guy doing the fouling.
    That was a joke call, and an unwillingness on the part of the outside refs to countermand the guy on the field.
     
  11. delaynomo

    delaynomo Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    The rule hasn't changed!!!!!!!
     
  12. delaynomo

    delaynomo Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    99.9% of the time, they will be able to do that very accurately. For the remaining 0.1%, yes maybe too close to call. In which case, give benefit of the doubt to the attacker. It's assisted by science but certainly not rocket science!
     
  13. delaynomo

    delaynomo Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    You clearly don't like the rule, which is OK.

    But blame the rule not the enforcer!
     
  14. SamScouse

    SamScouse Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Toronto
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    I know that ffs. :rolleyes: re-read what I've written.

    let's try it again ....
    VAR now gives a patently unfair advantage to defenders (as opposed to the original intent, to attackers). and you're OK with that.
     
  15. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #590 EruditeHobo, Sep 23, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
    People argue all kinds of things. The number of people I personally know that still argue VVD didn't make any contact with Lamela 2 seasons ago is shocking, even with obvious video evidence.

    I'm fine with Matip pen being called, and I'll say again without VAR it wouldn't have been called either and everyone would still be bitching. So I'm sorry if I get a little confused what this is all actually about... people are irrational and are going to loudly complain no matter what.
     
  16. SamScouse

    SamScouse Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Toronto
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    nice try delay

    a) "99.9% of the time" really? you have no idea how often they are accurate in judging the ball leaving the passer, do you? you're just making that number up to bolster your viewpoint. how many games have shown the pass and the positioning of the attacker, in split screen, to show that VAR froze the action at precisely the right split second ? I've not seen it once.

    b) who's giving benefit of doubt to the attacker. that's not in any rule, anywhere. did you make that up, too? for someone who bangs on about the rules being sacrosanct, you're really making stuff up now.

    c) no it's not rocket science, in fact it sure as shyte isn't science at all.
     
  17. delaynomo

    delaynomo Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    If the rule is the same, logically how can VAR have changed anything except to enforce (as far as possible) the pre-existing rule???
     
  18. delaynomo

    delaynomo Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Insert whatever number you want. What I am 100% sure of is that offside calls are more accurate with VAR than without. Do you dispute this?
     
    EruditeHobo repped this.
  19. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sam they have rules for that, people have looked at the technology. The tech can quickly pinpoint the point the ball is struck and take a snapshot of that time to adjusted with respect to where each player is on the pitch. It's pretty precise.

    Please no one try to dispute this. The studies have been done, over years. Penalties didn't dramatically jump, offside calls didn't dramatically jump, scoring didn't dramatically decrease because of a ton of close offside calls, and the accuracy of relevant calls (which are only score and game-changing calls, remember) went up across the board, ~89% to up around ~95%.
     
  20. delaynomo

    delaynomo Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    I'm making a suggestion for VAR offside reviews that are too close to call even with stop-frame video reviews.
     
  21. delaynomo

    delaynomo Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Call it science or not, it's video review. Way more accurate for offside than any human on-field referee. Do you dispute this?
     
  22. delaynomo

    delaynomo Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    It's very easy to do. Have synchronised time stamps on all cameras. Identify time when ball leaves foot to accuracy of 0.01 seconds. Scroll forward on other cameras to that exact time. It is very possible to be extremely accurate 100% of the time.
     
  23. SamScouse

    SamScouse Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Toronto
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    what's needed is chips in each player's boots. they are in the balls already for goalline tech, so why not.

    won't eliminate headed passes but would be big step forward.
     
  24. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They already wear tech in most training sessions, right? Hardly some brave new world.
     
  25. SamScouse

    SamScouse Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Toronto
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    not in boots at present.
     

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