June 2019 Democratic Primary Debates - pre game/pbp/post game thread

Discussion in 'Elections' started by Boloni86, Jun 26, 2019.

  1. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, politicians do in a way bribe older folk for votes, so in a way I guess it is a way to even things up.
     
  2. MatthausSammer

    MatthausSammer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 9, 2012
    Canada
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    It also may just be good policy to give incoming young professionals some form of breathing room in a space where real wages have stayed flat, housing and rent both cost significantly more than they used to, and people are putting off kids because they don't have the income to sustain it. MAYBE JUST MAYBE after years of screwing over the young for the old, it makes sense to actually try to help those coming into the workforce, those coming into the middle class, in a meaningful way.
     
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  3. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Wait what?

     
  4. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Those people aren't young anymore. Indeed millenials are easily the most powerful consumer group.

    Why this matters is wealth redistribution, just like healthcare
     
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  5. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Yes - because Gen X is getting old and their parents are dying out.

    We need to transfer wealth to the most important consumer group which is the millennial group.

    The idea there people are young is nonsense
     
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  6. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
  7. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    YES
    YES
    YES
    YES
    YES
    YES
    YES
    YES
    YES
    YES

    This has been Elizabeth Warren's work. The old have systematically screwed the young for 40 years now. Has been mostly a Republican thing but the Dems have played their part too. It is long, long past time that practice ends. For the good of the entire country. I am hoping that Warren can make that case eloquently and constructively.

    I would date the start of the Old Takeover to June 6th, 1978 -- the day that California's Proposition 13 passed. That effectively transferred assets from school children to (mostly old) property owners. It's been all downhill for the young since then.
     
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  8. Q*bert Jones III

    Q*bert Jones III The People's Poet

    Feb 12, 2005
    Woodstock, NY
    Club:
    DC United
    Yeah, some days I just feel like we should nakedly expropriate everything from the rich. They've been redistributing wealth from the 99.99% to the .01% for decades and if we don't seize government and start taking it back, it will just continue forever. Turnabout is fair play after all.
     
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  9. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #434 ceezmad, Sep 13, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
    Like everything there would have to be a lot of details to see who gets money.

    For example paying for an upper middle class person in private college that took a semester study abroad to go to Barcelona seems kind of fvcked up (studying abroad can be good for people).

    While POC do have on average more debt than white people and are more likely to have college debt, in other ways this proposal may be racially regressive as on average a smaller percentage of POC go to college.

    So I am not sure, it does help minorities that went to college more, so it is racially progressive that way, but fewer POC (excludes Asians) actually go to college.

    Also people that did not go to college for what ever reason, bad grades, family issues, needed to work, ect. get the shaft, then again those people don't vote (vote in lower rates), so perhaps they deserve to get the shaft.

    https://studentloanhero.com/featured/study-student-loans-weigh-heaviest-black-hispanic/

    upload_2019-9-13_9-18-40.png

    https://www.insidehighered.com/news...on-rates-vary-race-and-ethnicity-report-finds



    Edit: Also Pre-K spending would be more progressive and in theory do a lot more to close the wealth gap, racial inequality than money for college, currently gaps start occurring very early in the schooling process, so by the time people get to college there is already a big racial/income inequality with in students.


    Obviously some posters will argue, why not both? Well if you can raise taxes high enough then sure we can do both.
     
  10. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    The selection process is random, applicants are not required to have had donated to his campaign nor are they required to vote for him. The funds are also apparently coming from his personal bank account so what legalities are you concerned about? I did a quick look into campaign rules and can't seem to find anything that validates your concerns so...
     
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  11. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Who threatened assassination?
     
  12. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Oh, our new "favorite" Texas State Representative, Briscoe Cain III, aka the "foetus in the sweater"
    upload_2019-9-13_10-5-22.jpeg

    I am not reposting the tweets, but here is the text of the exchange:


    On September 12, 2019, Beto O'Rourke's said "Hell yes we're going to take your AR-15, your AK-47" during a Democratic presidential primary debate.

    In response, Cain tweeted: "My AR is ready for you Robert Francis."

    O'Rourke: "This is a death threat, Representative. Clearly, you shouldn't own an AR-15—and neither should anyone else."

    Twitter removed the tweet, saying it was against the site's rules, which prohibit violent threats.

    Cain then posted, "You are a child Robert Francis."

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campai...wn-texas-gop-lawmakers-ar-tweet-about-orourke
    [that last sentence has now been removed from Cain's wikipedia page]
     
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  13. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    xtomx repped this.
  14. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Some GOP rep said that his AR was ready for Beto.

    I guess Beto's campaign contacted the FBI about the tweet.
     
  15. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Recap of the debate.

     
  16. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ok, so some Democrats are taking issue with Castro regarding the exchange about Bidden forgetting what he said 2 minutes ago.

    But come the fvck on, I guess people talking about the Gorilla in the Room on how the DNC Dauphin may not be totally up to par up there is bad news.

    What the Fvck do you all think the Trump campaign is going to do.

    If Bidden wins we may have debates with two rambling fools talking nonsense past each other.


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...359a6c-d576-11e9-9343-40db57cf6abd_story.html
     
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  17. MatthausSammer

    MatthausSammer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 9, 2012
    Canada
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I mean, yeah. The Democratic electorate, particularly the older voters who appear to be Joe's base, don't want to hear it, but it's a problem.
     
  18. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    It's deeply ironic that The Big concern about democracy is that the (presumably undeserving) masses would use their numerical superiority to cheat the (presumably deserving) wealthy, but actually the opposite is occurring. Every year, the wealthy take more of the masses' chips. They take and take and take, and the masses are bewildered, sensing that somehow they are being wronged but incapable of righting that wrong.
     
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  19. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    ********ing Obama.
     
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  20. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Would this be the first time in history that a fetus aborted after birth stands his ground?


    I can see the Republicans and Evangelicals vaping about it...
     
  21. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    My problem with that exchange is that Castro didn't have a very good leg to stand on. He was mischaracterizing what Biden said.
     
  22. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    If Beto wins, I fully expect some low level civil war.

    I was shocked to hear that he plans on literally confiscating every legally purchased AR15 in the country by government force. This is mind boggling. Imagine if the GOP did that to something liberals cared about. Actually threatening to confiscate something you bought legally with your hard earned money.

    This goes way beyond banning future sales. This is retroactive retribution. Not to mention the fact that he doesn't have any constitutional authority to do this. Does he plan on doing it by executive order?

    This is in my top 3 worst Democratic policies on the table today:

    1) Taking away private insurance from 150 million Americans by force
    2) Gun confiscation by force.
    3) Federal Job Guarantee

    Remember when we used to joke on the left that Republicans are overreacting with the "they're taking our guns" schtick? Well it's not a joke anymore. Those Republicans actually turned out to be right.
     
  23. MatthausSammer

    MatthausSammer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 9, 2012
    Canada
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Call me an out of touch white suburban liberal but I'd be surprised if there was any significant portion of the population willing to die for their right to own their AR-15s.
     
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  24. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    You'd be surprised.

    Anyways. Confiscation is poor policy if the goal is to decrease mass shootings. That will just feed the self radicalization loop. It will prove to a lot of people that the government really is using authoritarian methods. Which could actually create more mass shooters.

    The smarter policy is to focus on policies regarding future gun sales. Retroactively the best you can do is a voluntary buyback program.
     
  25. MatthausSammer

    MatthausSammer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 9, 2012
    Canada
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    This data is fairly interesting on the debate. Cliff's Notes:
    1. Castro was a decisive loser here. By far the largest movement of the night was towards a less favourable outlook for Castro. Pretty clear that the perception of ganging up on or targeting Biden/Biden's age doesn't work in your favor.
    2. If there was a winner, it was Warren. Boosted her favorables, people perceived her as the best debater of the night, pretty solid all around.
    3. Marginal losses for Biden, Sanders, Harris in the aftermath of the debate, marginal gains for Warren, Booker, Beto, Yang, Klobuchar, and Buttgieg.
    4. Overall relatively little changed.
     

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