30 and beyond: instead of East/West conference, Should it be North/South played different seasons

Discussion in 'MLS: Commissioner - You be The Don' started by OWN(yewu)ED, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    pardon my drunk posting, but I just thought of this. Weather can suck in the summer and winter in different parts of the country, and in different parts of the country the weather sucks more in either summer or winter. No one wants to be playing soccer in Vegas, Dallas, Houston, etc in the middle of July/August. Conversely, playing soccer in Minnesota, Colorado, New England, New York in the winter would probably not be much of a joy either.

    Summer League: Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, Seattle, Portland, RSL, Colorado, Chicago, Columbus, Cincinnati, Minnesota, Philadelphia, DC, NYCFC, RBNY, NE Revs

    Winter League: San Jose, Sacramento, LA Galaxy, LAFC, Dallas, Austin, Houston, Nashville, Atlanta, Orlando, Miami, Kansas City, St Louis
    (Vegas, Phoenix, Charlotte expansion)

    For inter-league we could meld schedules in spring and fall. It would facilitate more tolerable temperature swings if it were designed around seasons.
     
  2. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  3. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Normally, I see the league split between east/west, but I do believe it’s an idea worth exploring even if it’s unlikely to happen.

    Ultimately, we need to figure out... what’s more taxing: weather or time zones.
     
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  4. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No.
     
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  5. DCW531

    DCW531 Member

    City SC
    Jan 31, 2017
    St. Louis, MO
    Except you have more northern (Cold) cities currently than southern (Warm) cities.

    Just FYI - St Louis and KC have very comparable winters to Columbus, Cincinnati, & Philly.
     
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  6. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's no getting around most of the US having a continental climate. A winter season would be miserable in cities as far south as Dallas. As hot as it gets in the summer in Dallas, I'd much rather play in July/August than January/February in there.
     
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  7. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #7 EvanJ, Aug 2, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
    Pro/rel has been called a solution looking for a problem. The weather at different times of year is an unsolvable problem. I think outdoor sports need to play in the summer. I hate the idea of clubs in the same league in different regions playing at different times of year, having to start with a bunch of away games, or having a midseason break regardless of whether it's defined as a midseason break or two seasons per year. MLS plays mostly at night, especially in the summer. Playing at night makes it reasonable to play in the south in the summer. In the north the winter is cold enough to get snow at any time of day, and the midwest got temperatures of -40 earlier this year. I don't see how you could make playoff between clubs who played the regular season at different times of year, and I would hate if there was a northern champion and southern champion who didn't play each other or who played each other at a location and/or time of year that favored one of them.

    The northern half of clubs has CHI, TOR, MON, VAN, NE, NYRB, NYCFC, CLB, SEA, POR, MIN, and PHI. The southern half of clubs has CIN, SKC, SJ, COL, RSL, DC, LAG, LAFC, FCD, HOU, ORL, and ATL. The clubs within each half are in no particular order. Adding Nashville and Austin would let RSL move to the northern half.
     
  8. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    points for a creative idea. The problem is that while we can all understand wanting to skip summer games in Stl, KC, Nash, Sac (kudos for the notion, does anyone still think this will happen), their winters also suck. Same applies to the summers and winters of DC, Chi, Columbus, Cinci etc.
     
  9. aztec21bas

    aztec21bas BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 24, 2009
    Mullica Hill, NJ
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Drunk or not, dumbest idea ever.
     
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  10. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The most temperate climes in the US and Canada are on the west coast.

    Average high and low in Feb:

    CIN 45 25
    KC 45 26
    COL (Den) 46 20
    SLC 43 25
    DC 47 31
    ATL 57 38

    Compared to

    NYC 42 29
    NE (Boston) 39 25
    CHI 35 20
    COL 41 25
    PHI 44 28
     
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  11. pluszeropointfive

    pluszeropointfive New Member

    Feb 3, 2012
    I followed the Big Ten's old rule of "protect" (or at least try to) everyone's 2 closest geographic rivals when making the divisions.

    West (7): (by far the easiest) Vancouver, Seattle, Portland, San Jose, Sacramento, LA Galaxy, LA FC

    Everyone's 2 closest geographic rivals were protected in this division.

    Midwest (8): Salt Lake, Colorado, Kansas City, St. Louis, Minnesota, Chicago, Cincinnati, Columbus

    Cincinnati's second closest rival is Nashville (unprotected). In addition, Salt Lake/Colorado vs. Cincinnati/Columbus are across 2 time-zones which is difficult for the players.

    South (8): Miami, Orlando, Atlanta, Nashville, Charlotte, Dallas, Houston, Austin

    Charlotte's second closest rival is DC United (unprotected)

    East (7): NY Red Bulls, NYCFC, Philadelphia, DC United, New England, Montreal, Toronto

    Toronto's second closest rival is Columbus (unprotected).

    It's a difficult task for this league. I do not envy the commissioner who will be responsible for making geographic divisions someday. It has to happened though to help cut down travel costs as the US + Canada is massive and the majority of the league is still operating at a net loss.
     
  12. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That would make sense if travel costs equated to distance traveled but often tickets between popular locations are cheaper than short haul.
     
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  13. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That said, the need to avoid long-distance travel isn't only about cost, it's also about travel time and fatigue. (And indirectly hotel costs have to be factored in, because a long trip may mean spending an extra night in a hotel in order to prepare properly for a game.)
     
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  14. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    At 30 clubs, playing everyone isn't a reasonable expectation. It's only possible if five six team conferences are created, within which you play everyone twice. But playing only on the road or only at home against other sides isn't a particularly even way of determining an overall best clubs. Home and home is better.
    I actually think that what we're seeing this season, with the three missing sides from each clubs schedule, is the beginning of decision to move away from from playing everybody being a schedule priority. Once that happens, conferences with limited interleague play begin to make more sense.
    They also make more practical sense as we move forward. I know I shared the notion that NY-LA matchups would be important to maintain. But I'm not sure that's at all the case anymore. LA-LA and NY-NY are better TV matchups. I know the Yankees-Dodgers animosity stireed the pot for decades in baseball, but MLS doesn't have an audience that cares much about that.
    At first, i was thinking the conference setup was cool, but unlikely. I think what we're seeing now is that is where MLS is heading.

    Seeing as MLS is, like the US, coast heavy, you build inwards from the East Coast Megapolis and California. Most are obvious.
    East:
    NE, NYRB, NYCFC, Philly, DC, Carolina, Atlanta, Miami, Orlando, Nashville, Columbus, Cinci, Toronto, Montreal
    West:
    LAG. LAFC, SJ, Sac, Port, Sea. Vanc, Austin, Dallas, Houston, Salt Lake, Colorado

    The final four are more difficult, esp considering the notion of regional rivals. SKC is grouped with Minnesota (why not, I guess) as a rival, but will insist on STL. StL would be fine with SKC, but will insist on Chicago. Chicago's biggest traditional rival would be Minnesota, but they don't seem to care so much about that and seem to like being Eastern, rather than Western, though at one point they had a thing going with KC, and in baseball and hockey Stl.. Minnesota apparently sees it's biggest rival as Atlanta, however, and as it also has in common the frozen north thing, and only one of these sides can go east, young man, maybe they're they best fit.
    That would mean the full conferences:
    west:
    LAG. LAFC, SJ, Sac, Port, Sea. Vanc, Austin, Dallas, Houston, Salt Lake, Colorado, SKC, Stl., Chicago
    East:
    NE, NYRB, NYCFC, Philly, DC, Carolina, Atlanta, Miami, Orlando, Nashville, Columbus, Cinci, Toronto, Montreal, Minn.

    This isn't perfect, and I'm not sure if Minnesota fans would be insulted or excited by this setup.
    But that would mean 28 conference games, home and home series, and six random or randomish interconference.
    So, in order to address the topic line, this is a long way to answer no.
     
  15. VBCity72

    VBCity72 Member+

    Aug 17, 2014
    Sunny San Diego
    Club:
    Plymouth Argyle FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hard pass...like the hardest of passes...like diamond hard...that's millions of years worth of pressure on carbon to get close to just how hard this pass is.
     
  16. canammj

    canammj Member+

    Aug 25, 2004
    CHINO, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I expect MLS to stay with 2 conferences for the near future. They seem to like simple moves of maybe one or two teams- like in the past when it was HOU or KC who played in the East ? (someone correct me on this please) It's balanced this year because of NASH going in the west, while MIA obviously belongs in the East.
    2021 is easy - Austin in West, Charlotte in East
    2022 when STL & SAC come in- they go in the West and NASH moves back to East.
    So that is a nice 15 West and 15 East for 30 teams
    Now, if they really cap at 32 like other sports leagues in the USA (big if I know), I almost find it easier for MLS to come up with a Western Team than an Eastern Team. In the West, I would have to think PHX and LV are the front runners.
    Who would be possible in the East? INDY if their stadium deal goes through ? TBAY comes back if a viable stadium situation can be done? Not sure who else.
    -
    Then of course, if the extreme ever happens of the 3 Canadian MLS teams leaving (I know, just about impossible), that would allow MLS to add 3 more teams, 1 West and 2 East if you replace geographically. That would allow both PHX and LV to come in the West, but finding 2 more good East teams could be an issue.
    -
    At 32 teams, my regular season is home and away within conference (30 games)
    My new Shield Game is #1 W vs. #1 E
    My new MLS cup becomes what it really is, the 3rd Cup like England- A league cup.
    32 teams is perfect 32>16>8>4>2>1
    This way between Shield Game, MLS CUP, USOC & pre season games, you should be able to play enough x-over games against teams in the other conference.
     
  17. soccerfan60

    soccerfan60 New Member

    Red Bulls
    United States
    Apr 7, 2020
    32 team league 4 divisions of 8 teams, everyone Home /Away within division and 1 game against everyone else

    I would love to see MLS Cup at end of May or early June , I want to make it possible, make your case for it
     
  18. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just a tip from the guy who moderates this forum... most of us have had this conversation many times over already. If YOU have a case for this, make it.

    As for the divisions... your formula would make a 38-match season. That's a little longer than might be practical without jamming a bunch of extra mid-week matches in there. Although they could just have four opponents you don't play in a given season, which would rotate from year-to-year.
     
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