MLS, Liga MX 8 team tournament

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by firefan2001, Feb 2, 2019.

  1. NashSC

    NashSC Member+

    Nashville SC
    United States
    Jan 3, 2018
    This is absurd. If the players are in the game then they risked it. Doesn't matter how much effort you think they put in. Players being on the field means the team took it serious and put their main players at risk. Period.
    If you aren't taking it serious and don't want any harm to come to your primary players...guess what...you don't play them. Pretty simple. MLS teams didn't play primary players and LigaMX did.
     
  2. flange

    flange Member

    Jul 15, 2014
    Portland, OR
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who owns CCL TV rights in North America?

    I think the Leagues Cup is more about MLS and LMX working together to gain leverage over CONCACAF. I'm sure they see TV money being left on the table with CCL and they want the cut that they feel they deserve. CONCACAF isn't going to give that up unless CCL is threatened.
     
  3. crookeddy

    crookeddy Member+

    Apr 27, 2004
    Same network owns CCL and Leagues Cup.
     
  4. newtex

    newtex Member+

    May 25, 2005
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Yahoo Sports owns the English tv rights to the CCL in the U.S. Univision has the Spanish language rights. TSN and RDS have the Canadian rights. FOX Sports Latin America has the rights in the Mexico and most of the rest of North America.

    The Leagues Cup rights are held by ESPN (English) and Univision (Spanish) in the U.S. Canadian rights are held by TSN and TVA. I'm not sure about in Mexico or the rest of North America.
     
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  5. STR1

    STR1 Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 29, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Of course it is absurd. Fans trying to decide what is legit and what isn't is ridiculous. Apparently Mexican clubs can request their League to not be part of these tournaments if they don't care about them. Specially this year's Leagues Cup tournament since it was an "invitation". Chivas declined the invitation due to prioritizing Liga MX relegation. And even next year when teams "qualify" they can also request not to go if they don't care. No one forces any of these clubs to participate.
     
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  6. STR1

    STR1 Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 29, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    IMO, Liga MX is better than the rest of South American leagues for the exception of Brazil. I could even say that Liga MX is on par with Super Liga Argentina in terms of competitiveness. But there is a reason to this. Liga MX is the second best paying league in the Americas. South America gets poached a lot by leagues all over the world. The best talent they have go to Europe. Whatever is left (second tier) goes to Liga MX. They go to Liga MX not because of the excuse I always hear that "because of the competitiveness of the league", they simply go because they pay better than in South America. If they wanted "competition" or a competitive environment, South America is the place to be since they have Copa Libertadores and Copa Sudamericana. As Argentina and Brazil keep on getting poached their leagues will continue to go downward in quality as they can't keep their talent for too long. And as Liga MX keeps on buying better players and offering better pay their league will continue to go upward. It all comes down to money and that is a reason that MLS will soon overtake them. Even with the silly salary cap, MLS is just 4th on average salary pay in the Americas. It is only a matter of time till MLS becomes the league you go to make money if you didn't make it to Europe from South America. And as we see many young South Americans are already making the jump to MLS instead.
     
  7. Simster

    Simster Member

    May 16, 2002
    London
    Club:
    Brighton & Hove Albion FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Brazilian domestic football is MUCH better than Mexican, and so too is Argentina. "Maybe?" you ask? Christ on a bike, look at the records in the Copa Libertadores since Mexico started playing. Argentina blows Mexico out of the water.

    Then you've got Colombian and Ecuardorian teams who have won it in the past 20 years - something Mexican teams have NEVER managed. If you want to tell me Mexican football is better than Chilean or Peruvian domestic football, I'll accept that, but I assumed you'd get my point that compared to other Latin American countries with sizeable populations Liga MX is bang ordinary.

    So by @It's called FOOTBALL 's own yardstick (teams from that league winning competitions), Mexican football is complete crap. They are the second best payers in the Americas, but haven't won a Copa Libertadores in 20 years, they have produced next to zero world class players, and he is on an MLS forum crowing that Liga MX is MILES better than MLS (a league barely 20 years old based in 2 countries where soccer is 4th or 5th in popularity). It makes me cringe.
     
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  8. crookeddy

    crookeddy Member+

    Apr 27, 2004
    I don't know if you're on here thinking you're defending MLS or something, but you're definitely making us look worse so ah... please stop.
     
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  9. Simster

    Simster Member

    May 16, 2002
    London
    Club:
    Brighton & Hove Albion FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Ah you're one of those people who thinks he's cleverer than he is, with a modus operandi of pithy put-downs in the absence of the ability to challenge actual facts. Tell you what, say something constructive and challenge what I'm saying, or alternatively, pipe down little man.

    I'm actually not defending MLS, I'm taking umbrage with the fact that this chap is insistent that Liga MX is streets ahead of MLS. What I'd say is that this is probably the case at the top end of each league, but I bet you the bottom 4 in MLS would go toe to toe with the bottom 4 in Liga MX - teams like Veracruz and Necaxa with their 11,000 crowds.
     
  10. Simster

    Simster Member

    May 16, 2002
    London
    Club:
    Brighton & Hove Albion FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    @crookeddy I see you put the Argentina v Mexico attendance in the MLS attendance thread.

    A baffling post, but whilst we're on the subject of that game I see that Mexico got absolutely spanked 4-0. You'll note that Mexico's team was largely drawn from Liga MX.

    Liga MX really isn't very good.
     
  11. STR1

    STR1 Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 29, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    He isn't "defending" MLS. What he says is what we hear and read all the time (even here in BS), if a league wins an International competition, ie Copa Libertadores or CCL, then that league is better. By that logic then the leagues of Ecuador, Colombia and Paraguay are better than Liga MX because they won Copa Libertadores when Liga MX was also participating. Although I don't agree that those 3 leagues are better than Liga MX, but if we use one measuring stick to determine who is better then that same measuring stick has to be used for all. Getting to the final of said competition doesn't count either because MLS has reached 3 CCL finals but hasn't won them.
     
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  12. SixKick

    SixKick Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 13, 2000
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    So much hostility. Relax, it's okay.

    Your arrogance is revealing your ignorance. You apparently don't realize that Nacaxa has the fourth best record in Liga MX right now. No bottom rung MLS team is doing that.

    Also, you seem to not be aware that Liga MX was never allowed to send its top teams to Libertadores because CONCACAF required that they be in CCL. So if you're arguing that the top teams of the South American leagues are better than the second tier of Liga MX, well I guess, but what does that prove?

    Using Libertadores is also a poor metric because Liga MX stopped participating 5 years ago and at about the same time Liga MX has seen an arms race develop with its top three teams (America, Tigres, Monterrey). They have been spending at higher levels to compete with each other. Unsurprisingly, at least one of those three have been in 7 of the last 8 finals. 2 or 3 make the CCL every year. The last time Liga MX was in Libertadores, Tigres was a participant and made it to the final by topping a Brazilian team.

    I don't watch enough of the South American leagues to really say with any sort of authority on how they all stand. I seriously doubt that you have either.

    But as far as the comparison with MLS, I have watched a lot of both leagues over the years and feel pretty confident of my assessment there. Comparing them is a bit tricky due to MLS's unique roster construction being so top heavy. In a short tournament, when completely healthy, I'd say MLS matches up well with mid-table Liga MX teams. Good enough to occasionally knock off the top teams, but mediocre enough to also get upset by the bottom teams.

    But that's only for short tournaments when you don't have to worry about fatigue and injuries. Over the course of a regular season, starters are replaced by some really bad players in MLS which creates real disjointedness and drops the overall quality of league play. Even if you plopped LAFC into Liga MX they'd struggle to make the playoffs and that's only if they have amazing luck healthwise and they completely tank extraneous tournaments like Copa MX, CCL, Leagues Cup, Campeones Cup, etc.
     
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  13. crookeddy

    crookeddy Member+

    Apr 27, 2004
    You overthought this. He's in here trolling and talking shit for no reason but to talk shit.
     
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  14. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That describes most of the people in the conversation at this point
     
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  15. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    I assume he means who sells the rights.


    Concacaf sells the rights for the CCL, they get the money and then distribute the money to concacaf members


    the Superliga 2.0 is probably sold on by some sort of SUM-FMF entity, so any money is only shared between SUM/MLS/FMF.
     
  16. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I used to do a coefficient for Copa Libertadores back when Mexico teams played in it.

    Brazil and Argentina always had better scores than Mexico, Mexico would average between 3rd and 6th if I remember correctly.

    Perhaps part was than champions of liga MX had to play in the CCL.

    I have not checked in a while, but towards the end, the Argentina league was catching or surpassing the Brazilian league.


    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/¿d...n-la-libertadores.526674/page-6#post-33630154
     
  17. STR1

    STR1 Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 29, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Liga MX not sending their Champions or best team is it not the same excuse as saying MLS is in preseason when it plays CCL? I mean, both are excuses, right?

    But to your point of comparing MLS to Liga MX. They both operate differently. MLS is limited by its own rules (salary cap) and as you say in the last 5 years the most wealthy teams in Mexico are trying to overspend each other which in turn raises their level. And that is exactly what is holding MLS back, teams can't spend as they like and how they like, like Monterrey, Tigres and America can. There is really no fair comparison between MLS and Liga MX to say one is better than the other and using CCL as a measuring stick, as it is always used by Liga MX fans, isn't really a fair point.
     
  18. STR1

    STR1 Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 29, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Others come here trolling all the time. People that don't even follow MLS, hate MLS or just show up to say how better another league they follow is better than MLS and no one here says anything. Not even mods. So what is the difference?
     
  19. crookeddy

    crookeddy Member+

    Apr 27, 2004
    Guess I just don't like da modz!
     
  20. SixKick

    SixKick Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 13, 2000
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Both are excuses like Berhaulter and Klopp are both managers. Doesn't mean they are of comparable quality.

    I'm not sure I understand the point you're making. We are comparing the leagues based on on-the-field quality. The reasons for the gap are irrelevant for that discussion, no?

    I agree that if there were no cap or other roster restrictions then you might see some teams like NYCFC spend to levels similar to or possibly higher than the the Liga MX big spenders. But then the league would probably be dead in 5 years, so I'm not sure the point of the hypothetical.
     
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  21. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's not a salary cap, it's a salary floor.
     
  22. NeilB

    NeilB Member

    Mar 17, 2000
    Mount Kisco, NY
    Also, I know it doesn't sound sexy to the fans but the MLS pitch of "We've never missed payroll" is VERY appealing to players from countries whose teams are less than stable.
     
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  23. flange

    flange Member

    Jul 15, 2014
    Portland, OR
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thank you, you put it better than I did.

    I think MLS and LMX want more money from CCL. Whether that is because SUM/FMF can get a better deal than CONCACAF currently gets, or SUM/FMF wants a share proportional with the viewership LMX and MLS bring, or some combination of the two, I don't know. But that's what the Leagues Cup looks like to me, a play for leverage.

    A manager or player may not care about that on game day, but anyone that cares about the long term prospects of the two leagues surely does.
     
  24. newtex

    newtex Member+

    May 25, 2005
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    2019 Leagues Cup
    Home team first.
    Times are ET.

    Final
    Wednesday, September 18
    Cruz Azul v. Tigres UANL @ Las Vegas, NV 10:30 pm ESPN2/UniMas/TUDN
     
  25. SixKick

    SixKick Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 13, 2000
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico

    Could MLS, Liga MX actually merge in the future? MLB might provide the blueprint



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