Can somebody point me to the Antifa Organization website? Who's the leader of the Antifa group? How long has Antifa existed with this organized membership? Meanwhile, also in the article, a much better written description: Yeah, I know, its a broken record, but as I posted before most San Jose fans would be pretty upset if we just started saying all San Jose fans were thugs because of the actions of a organized sub-group of San Jose fans in Portland (or in Colorado).
Hmm, you don't like it when people get generalized because of some bad apples? Strange. If only everyone would think about this.
You have a specific comment of mine you want to call oout or was this meant more for the general audience?
Your larger point of painting with too broad a brush is a fair one, but it is undercut by your false allusions. The scenarios you cite to did not involve "actions of a organized sub-group of San Jose fans in Portland (or in Colorado)" let alone San Jose fans, generally. As I've pointed out previously, and fairly recently, the 2010 Colorado incident involved a single person acting alone. The 2013 incident in Portland involved two people both of whom were acting in their individual capacities. None have been with the San Jose Ultras since. Five others in Portland were subjected to bogus charges for disorderly conduct, simply because they were seen (doing nothing) in a video, and declined to contest these charges in Oregon in exchange for having them formally dropped and being allowed to perform community service in California. One of the five innocents refused to contest the charges merely because he was an undocumented Latin American immigrant and feared he could be deported if he engaged the legal system, not because he was guilty of anything at all. Stop spreading stale innuendo.
As somebody who was present at the incident in Colorado, while a single person stated the act he was not alone. I'll agree "organized group" may or may not be accurate but it wasn't like a single San Jose fan wandered into the tailgate to start trouble or even a single San Jose fan in a group of fans who were friendly and happy to hang out with us lost it and started something. A group of San Jose fans showed up talking shit and trying to stir things up. I think we're splitting a fine hair between "identified members of the Ultras" (which I believe you agree they were) and "organized by the Ultras" but I agree that's a hair that could be split. These details I was unaware of, the last I heard was that multiple members of the group had been charged and had (essentially, without getting into legal definitions of the terms) bargained their punishments down to community service.
I was in Colorado for the 2010 Eastern Conference final, as well, and hanging out at the Rapids fans tailgate with Rapids fans when the "incident" took place. As I define the term "incident," it involved a single San Jose fan who sucker-punched a Colorado fan. He was duly criminally charged and removed from the Ultras. As for another "group" "talking shit" with opposing fans, I cannot speak to that. But I'm not sure that arises to the level of an "incident."
We must have been the proverbial ships passing in the night. Was it a sucker-punch or a headbutt? Honestly my view wasn't great the moment it happened so I never knew for sure (both stories have been repeated over the years).
General. Sorry Almost every single mass shooting is a solo act and not an organized group in any shape or form but it doesn't stop LOTS of people from making massive generalizations.
Oh, the irony of your post. Seriously, look in the mirror while repeating "You've been indoctrinated'.
And someone please explain to me what business Antifa members have directing traffic and intimidating motorists? Seriously, what's happening here?
This infuriates me. Even though they were attacking him and his car they would have cried and screamed if he had hit one of them trying to get away. Once you enter a road and started surrounding vehicles you have given up all rights to your safety. They are breaking the law. Laws that exist for their safety.
you are telling on yourself. if the police cared about peoples safety they wouldve arrested all the outside agitator proud boys for having an unlicensed purely antagonistic march in one of the most progressive cities in the country.
Dunno. Maybe ask these guys? https://www.newsweek.com/antifa-violence-portland-bernie-sanders-video-1082072
Last sentence of the Newsweek article: "Rose City Antifa, the anti-fascist group in Portland, did not immediately respond to a request for comment." https://rosecityantifa.org/ "If you are interested in learning more about Rose City Antifa or getting involved in the work we do, please feel free to leave a voicemail message for us at 971-533-7832, or email us at fight_them_back@riseup.net."
Ah, missed that line. But that illustrates my point exactly. These aren't members of "Antifa". These are members of "Rose City Antifa" a specific group that supports the ideas and beliefs that are associated with the Antifa movement. Just like Earth First supports ideas associated with the environmental movement and the KKK support ideas associated with the white supremacist movement. Or how a couple of San Jose fans who have caused trouble (acceptable description @don gagliardi?) support the Earthquakes.
It is still an organized group of people using the name Antifa. I don't understand your point at all. So what if there isn't some Global official Antifa running the show?
Because we (generally) don't blame all WWF members for what the Earth Liberation Front does in the name of environmentalism, nor do we blame all Baptists for what the Westboro Baptist Church does in the name of God. Even the Proud Boys and other such groups that Rose City Antifa is protesting/fighting against gets some delineation from more general right-wing supporters (though not as much in the current toxic political environment as they should) but its become very easy to label every action that a group like Rose City Antifa takes as "Antifa" as if everyone who supports the ideas of Antifa belongs to the same group which is supporting all the actions taken in its name.
Things like Westboro Baptist are a one off cult. If there were "Baptist" churches all over doing the same things as them then it would be more comparable to the Antifa groups. The official Baptist organizations openly condemn Westboro, but they legally can't make them take "baptist" out of their name. Actually some have started taking Baptist out of their names because of the evilness of Westboro. Do the rest of Antifa groups condemn the militant violent groups causing chaos? Serious question. http://www.bpnews.net/32652/hatefilled-westboro-not-southern-baptist P.S. thanks for your calmer more cordial conversation even though we disagree.
Good question, and not one I have a complete answer to. The people I know who identify as supporting Antifa and the local groups they belong to have certainly said they don't support the unprovoked violence from Antifa supporting groups they've seen, but that's not exactly an all-encompassing statement from all groups (or even all major ones). This also hits home to me because not only do I have friends who would not support the current actions, but many of these type of protests go back to the infamous WTO riots in Seattle, which I was indirectly involved in and many of my friends were directly involved in the peaceful (but disruptive) protests in downtown Seattle that devolved into the riots when anarchists and other such instigators used the protests as an excuse to start something bigger. Yet i saw many of those friends and the groups they worked for/with be labelled with the same rioters/vandals labels as the ones who actually caused the destruction got, despite not ever being involved. Just like not all Trump supporters are racists, not all Antifa supporters agree with what these Antifa groups do.
Right, you will never have a group anywhere of any kind where everyone agrees. It is impossibility. What I am talking about is an organizational/global opposition. The official southern baptist organizations have loudly and clearly said what Westboro does is wrong, hateful and not of Christ. It is all about self promotion and hate. As I said, it is a one off cult. Is there other people somewhere in the world that identify as baptist that agree with Westboro...maybe (I really doubt many), but officially the baptist organizations have openly opposed them to the point Westboro has protested the baptist organizations and the response was...if Westboro is protesting us then we are doing something right.
This is the root of the issue, though. The lack of organization *is* the problem. If the part of antifa (lower case a) would organize and explicitly condemn violence against peaceful, lawful demonstrators, I think you'd see a lot more support from the middle. I am against fascism, but I reject the antifa label specifically because many who claim antifa are in favor of using violence and intimidation against those they disagree with. I will not be associated with that.