My favorite goal from that period is the one he scored from the halfway line in 1981 (it's on video, 16:14). The idea a solo goal was particularly 'rare' (of course it is rare for any great player) is I think wrong though. Here at 7:22 solo goal against Liverpool in 1983. As you say in the other thread ('best technique' thread) his dribbling ability is typically criminally underrated by many folks (as is his finishing ability; per the recorded stats by OPTA he was quite/very accurate in his shooting and he did it consistently and reliably against the stronger teams). Not sure if 'overlooked' is the right word. The German history of tactics and statistics guru/writer/researcher Christoph Biermann acknowledges the pivotal role he played (imho Michael Cox his take that he wasn't keen on details is flat out wrong, if anything he often went too far with it when he was a tv pundit). https://www.piqd.de/zeitgeschichte/...sball-seit-1974-zu-dem-wurde-was-er-heute-ist
It has to be my boyhood hero Georgie Best, probably the best footballer ever, Such a shame that he succumbed to the booze
My Top: 1. Johan Cruyff 2. Franz Beckenbauer 3. Ferenc Puskás 4. Michel Platini 5. Cristiano Ronaldo 7. Zinedine Zidane 8. Eusébio 9. Lothar Matthaus 10. Lev Yashin 11. Paolo Maldini 12. Bobby Charlton 13. Gianluigi Buffon 14. Gerd Müller 15. Mathias Sindelar 16. Gianni Rivera 17. Giuseppe Meazza 18. Franco Baresi 19. Marco van Basten 20. Gyorgy Sarosi 21. George Best 22. Roberto Baggio 23. Karl-Heinz Rummenigge 24. Frank Rijkaard 25. Ruud Gullit 26. Dino Zoff 27. Luis Suárez Miramontes 28. Raymond Kopa 29. Bobby Moore 30. Laszlo Kubala 31. Luis Figo 32. Ruud Krol 33. Stanley Matthews 34. Peter Schmeichel 35. Uwe Seeler 36. Sandor Kocsis 37. Fritz Walter 38. Michael Laudrup 39. Ricardo Zamora 40. Giacinto Facchetti 41. Jozsef Bozsik 42. Josef Masopust 43. Gaetano Scirea 44. Thierry Henry 45. Nils Liedholm 46. Xavi Hernández 47. Andrés Iniesta 48. Valentino Mazzola 49. Johan Neeskens 50. Dragan Dzajic
Incredible and incredibly rare footage of England's greatest ever footballer(from his prime 64-66 especially) A complete attacking midfielder blessed with elegance and very underrated technique One of those pre modern era footballers that I guess would excel even today
Credit where it's due, this is not a bad attempt at all when players are compared to their contemporaries (thus not Xavi vs Laudrup etc.) but what I just not understand is how Van Basten can be behind a handful of his contemporaries. The trophies, the demonstrable influence (for three teams!), the big game and late stage goals across the years are there. Of course he was done at 27, and I see Best is punished for it as well (though not so much next to his contemporaries), but if Cristiano was done at 27 then he would still be ahead of any other European player of his time.
He most definitely should be but he wouldn't be at least not according to everyone http://footballpantheon.com/2011/09/the-100-greatest-players-of-all-time/ Matthew delany opting for andres iniesta above Cristiano Ronaldo and Dennis Bergkamp already by 2011 LMFAO!!!!!! Iniesta literally had 2 world class club seasons by 2011 08/09 and 10/11 09/10 iniesta was the worst in history for a ballon dor podium player (50th highest rated player in Europe by castrol 20th highest rated player in la liga by whoscored 100th~ highest rated CL player by whoscored) Etc.... Not so much anymore but 2007-2012 CR was the most underrated great player ever Underrated during his playing career only recently people are starting to realise the phenomenon he was
This is just nitpicking obviously, but why do you always use the 2nd-half of a season as the starting point lol? I assume you say 2007-2012 because you're including his 2006-2007 season, but shouldn't that mean it is 2006-20012? It's just a pet peeve of mine Unless of course you actually meant CR7 didn't become a great player until calendar year of 2007.
It's just easier than having to explain his prime started in November 2006 when he won back to back premier league player of the month awards at 21 years old As early as the 2nd half of 2005/06 he became a world class player as opposed to a world class talent. His phenomenon form started though around Oct-nov 2006 which was like a total explosion
Who would be in your 6th position? In general terms it seems to me a very good list, but I have a very high doubt about Kubala at that position, especially for the consistency of his best level.
Kubala in 51/52 was purportedly as great a player as there has ever been One of the all time peaks for sure In a centenary vote Barcelona fans in 1999 voted him as the greatest in their history This is with the exploits of R9,Rivaldo,Micheal Laudrup,stoichkov and Romario still fresh in their memory HE was also voted by a panel of his peers as the second greatest player in Spanish football history behind only di Stefano You can be overrated but this would have to be the ultimate conspiracy(that a player who never really maintained a great level for long enough is so widely acclaimed)
Seriously it is modern revisionism to do all of - Rummenigge ahead of Gullit - Muller ahead of Van Basten - Matthaus ahead of Van Basten Shows the colors and inclinations well again. The post-Bosman propaganda power for the masses.
Yes, I know about those retrospective considerations about Kubala and that approach, but I have never really been able to delve so much into how exceptional that peak of performance was and I have doubts because I think his fame could be due to the attempt to match his general impact with that of Di Stéfano in that new stage of Spanish football and how Real Madrid and Barcelona rivalry evolved later. Apart from the 1951-52 (his best) and 1953-54 seasons, I'm not really sure if Hungarian had another great season that has positioned him among the very best players in Europe. In the late 1950's and early 1960's he was part of a great team, but I feel that he no longer had such a starring role, at least the one I'd imagine necessary to be in an all-time European top 30. To be fair, there are several assumptions in that idea. More detailed information would be great. Ok, it seems true. Seriously, at least it seems me reasonable from some point of view.
Yes, knocking down a three times Ballon d'Or winner playing in a strong era, next to a *handful* of his contemporaries, is very reasonable... It is obvious to which camp you belong. Another internet revisionist. The modern revisionism around Rummenigge, who in truth never had an outstanding game in the advanced stages of club and country tournaments, is telling. In reality he is only marginally better than Keegan, someone who did shine in the advanced rounds of the European Cup. That was also the placement at the end of the 1980s. See this thread. https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/old-great-players-lists-esp-1950s-1970s.2038892/page-3 https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/fr...ho-voted-for-who.1597402/page-7#post-32194836
I don't see any of them as completely unreasonable except Lothar matthaues (this is where the ballon dor argument could be used as an advantage in favour of MVB because they were direct competitors) Gerd muller is widely considered a top 20 all timer pretty much unanimously. He loses on the ballon dor front only because he suffered the misfortune of playing in the same era as Johan Cruyff Van Basten would be 'lucky' to win a ballon dor in any year between 71-74 Rumminge vs gullit seems like a pretty close comparison technically at least (they were more physical phenomenons than technical) KHR is likely underrated many ranking him as 70-80 all time( and platini a top 10 all timer.) When in actual reality KHR was viewed during his playing career as superior to platini from 77-82 Internet revisionism is denying this fact and inflating platini because of a single international tournament Without it(EC 84) I don't see him as a better talent than gunter Netzer (With better luck with injuries) Technically there was literally nothing platini could do that netzer couldn't From dribbling to playmaking to set pieces to finishing
I said "all of". Thus when all of these three conditions are met. Your comments are already deviating from that call, and violating those conditions. And I still disagree with some of it: if you are the first in a very long time to score 10 goals in an EC winning campaign, including goals in the semis and final, in a non-tournament year, then that isn't a lucky Ballon d'Or.
How many assists? As has been touched on Hagi scored 6 goals+5 assists+1 (quality) pre assist in the 88/89 EC All the while playing for a demonstrably weaker side, in a deeper position offering more playmaking and dribbling than van Basten I've seen his (MVBs) performance vs real Madrid and it shows his qualities in link up play Still 10 goals doesn't on the face of it seem more than Hagi offered (all things considered-unless you have data for assists) Edit This isn't a slight on van Basten as I rate Hagi (his peak) as the best by a AM since Maradona (Mostly footage from the European cup and WC90-his physical prime) His brilliance was never sustained though which is why this may seem controversial. What he offered on his best days was as good as Maradona (or at least close to it)
Well yes, Hagi was fantastic. He finished 8th in the Ballon d'Or despite playing in Romania and 0 goals in 8 games for his national team. My commentary wasn't about Hagi. We discussed recently his career elsewhere. Scoring a record amount of goals (since the early 60s) in either the Champions League or the unanimous single strongest league in the world will go a long way to winning the Ballon d'Or in any era. My commentary was not on Hagi but "all of" those three assessments. Your own assessment already violates this, in an indirect way it is in agreement with what I said. By disagreeing with one comparison, and agreeing with two, you are already in agreement with me! Take a look at this for example: http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/best-x-players-of-y.html All the lists (Brazilian, English, Italian etc.) place Gullit ahead of of Rummenigge, all but one of the lists place MvB ahead of Matthaus (Placar the exception), all the lists place him ahead of Muller. Now, we can extend this with things like the 1999 L'Equipe list for example (Muller #8, MvB #11), but that's not the point. The point is *all three* are flipped around by the 'internet lists' and masses, which is certainly not the assessment of journalists or the peers.
Something to think about for you: poster boy KHR in his entire career has as many 'world class' designations by kicker (so infallible for some that international resonance doesn't matter any more) as Robben from the age of 26 onward... The point though - see above - is people like you flipping *all three* around.
For a different perspective Cristiano Ronaldo scored 700~ career goals and offered wingplay/playmaking equal to franck ribery,angel di Maria and every winger you can mention of the last 25 years @Perú FC @PDG1978 @celito @Tropeiro @PuckVanHeel @Bavarian14 @Edhardy @ko242 @Alessandro10 @poetgooner In other words(simplified) C.Ronaldo was either simultaneously one of the greatest scorers ever and one of the best wing creators in the world Or was in one stage of his career one of the best wing creators of the last quarter century In another stage was a scorer as great as Eusebio and gerd muller That is just his versatility in skillset (What he offered as a individual on the pitch) Factor in his longevity as a top 5 outfield player in the world From 2007-2019 and your looking at a contender for best European player that ever existed Michel Platini retired at 31 years old and offered GOAT play making but never was one of the best goalscorers in the world(at any stage of his career) Never was one of the best dribblers in the world What is astounding is CR had to do everything he did only to be ranked one place ahead of Zidane A player with one ballon dor Losing to Micheal Owen, Shevchenko past his prime and nedved Losing to them during the time he was supposedly dominating Myths will just never die