Alfredo Morales discussion thread

13 caps: 12 friendlies and one in the 2015 Gold Cup. Looks like the US may have to give up its fourth place trophy

 

Could this answer why he isn't getting called up? The USSF knows he's not eligible and hopes if they don't call him up everyone will forget about that Gold Cup?

 

Uhhh.... uh-oh.

 

I have no proof, but he likely had a Consular Report of Birth Abroad (Same document that allowed McCain to run for president). Still doesn’t strictly fall under FIFA guidelines but they may well consider it to comply with condition a).

 

Unlikely to be considered anything more than a version of his birth certificate. Not really the same as being born in the country.

The only thing I could come up with when I looked at this is some other BS forum was there might have been some grandfathering for players who had played for YNTs before the rule. But the rule was put in place in 2004 and it appears he started playing for USYNTs in 2008.

I found this FIFA circular issued after the rules were updated in 2008, but it really says that the rule change doesn't apply to those who played in an official competition of any category (meaning, I suppose cap-ties & provisional cap-ties).

https://www.fifa.com/mm/document/af...ibilitytoplayforrepresentativeteams_55197.pdf

 

Here's the version from 2003, that pretty much reads the same as the current FIFA statute above:

https://www.fifa.com/mm/document/af...e_status_and_transfer_of_players_en_33410.pdf

 

News to me. Thank you.

 

Yes. It is the same as a birth certificate but one that confers citizenship at birth. I think most of the FIFA regs apply to naturalization or obtaining a passport through a relative which is not the case with Alfredo.

 

True, but it still doesn't meet the FIFA rule because even being born on a US military base doesn't count in most legal definitions of being born in the US. It's a record of birth with implications related to citizenship.

My theory as to why Alfredo was able to play for the US:

* USSF sought and received a waiver of the rule from FIFA. These waivers are never announced by FIFA and there isn't a public record of who received one. There isn't even good documentation on how the process works.

or

* No one in USSF ever checked to confirm if he were eligible and no opponent ever bothered to protest (which is pretty common for friendlies -- why bother?)

 

Yep, but most feds wouldn't have enough info to protest. Panama may not have known (pretty likely if the US Fed didn't know).

 

yeah, lets take this obsession and jam it into as many threads as possible...

 

If like bshredder, you believe that dual nationals born and raised abroad aren’t Americans you might see it as your duty to expose and expel as many as possible.

 

You grow up. I’ve heard you speak on multiple podcasts and your position in dual nationals is clear. As is your position on reaching out and making sure they know they’re wanted. If you’re so worried about it reach out to US Soccer. I know you have their number.

 

Could substitute Fredo Cuomo for him!

 

I was considering this. But if Antonee Robinson has the same problem -- well, he just started a friendly for us two months ago (the Jamaica friendly, to decide who would make the Gold Cup roster).

 

Is there a procedural mechanism spelled out anywhere for obtaining a waiver?

 

I think that people are reading that FIFA rule wrong. That rule seems to be limited to dual "FIFA nationals" like England/Scotland, and similar subsets of nations with multiple federations like USA/Puerto Rico, etc. The FIFA general rule is broader, basically citizenship based on something other than just residence. It is explained in detail here:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.go...s-players-who-have/1hndiedxd2d4h1jfved27pg4go

 

If that article is correct, then it sounds like Jens Lys-Cajuste would still be eligible to play for the US as well.

 

Agree.

 

As I read this:

The general principle, in Article 5.1, states: "Any person holding a permanent nationality that is not dependent on residence in a certain country is eligible to play for the representative teams of the association of that country."
Citizenship by birth is not dependent on residency. Morales is eligible. H/T to @Marius Tresor for link.


Now @BostonRed can blow me out of the water.

 

There might be, but if there is, it's buried in FIFA.com's vast repository of documents with statutes, regulations and thousands of circulars that explain how new rules are interpreted. There are also rulings from committees, none of which seem to apply to national team eligibility, that I can find.

 

Amigos, I don´t really know what you guys are talking about.....my advise to all of you is that you really have to try to understand exactly what are you reading.
Here is my theory:
The whole thing doesn´t apply to Alfredo because he has never played for another Association beside the US, not for Germany & not for Perú, and the rule is talking about a player that has played for one country and wants to play for another (to represent more than one Association).



View attachment 158584

 

Yep...

That's pretty much the intent of the old rules, passport = eligibility.

But look at this part of the regulation:

A player who, under the terms of art. 5, is eligible to represent more than one association on account of his nationality, may play in an international match for one of these associations only if, in addition to having the relevant nationality, he fulfils at least one of the following conditions:

a) He was born on the territory of the relevant association;
b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant association;
c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant association;
d) He has lived continuously on the territory of the relevant association for at least two years.

So the new rules (since about 2004) are: passport + one of the 4 elements in the list about.

ETA: Otherwise, we'd be back to Qatar giving passports to Brazilians.