Wicky was asked by @zlebmada about the availability of Scally and Bello, and he said both should be back. I'd list them for now. If this team is missing those two, as well, it could be even more rough than expected. Those two have been two of the better performers for the U-17's this cycle. I think a case for a successful U-17 WC revolves a lot around those two having a good U-17 WC.
You may be right, but I saw a first half in the finals against Mexico that had my jaw on the floor. They must have hit the post/crossbar 4-5 times in one half! The passing and movement off the ball absolutely shredded Mexico and if they didn't run out of gas they might have put a very big ass whipping on them. If they play anything like that in the championships they will surprise a lot of teams.
Honestly I would’ve said the same types of things about Ferri, Acosta, Goslin, Ayo, Lindsey, Gloster, and whoever the hell the other CB was besides Sands. Actually, I would’ve said it about Sands, too. He had some inconsistency to his game that consistently reminded you that he wasn’t a CB. And after the World Cup I would’ve said that Durkin’s lack of athleticism and lack of a high motor would limit his potential, too. I’m pretty sure I did say that somewhere. Like I’ve said, I think this group is more composed and better under press as a whole than past groups. I’m not sure they will turn into superstars, but I think the floor is better than the floor of the ‘17 team. I haven’t seen Japan, Neltherands, or Senegal so I can’t comment on them. And I don’t necessarily disagree with the points you made about this group of players that I have opinions about. But not every player on a team is going to be a superstar at 17. Leyva is better than any ‘17 midfielder. KHF is better than any ‘17 defender. It pains me to say, but Reyna at his best may be better than Carleton at his best. And Pepi maybe isn’t the prospect Sargent was, but at least in the same ballpark. The ‘17 team had more creative players and had a better idea how to score, but this team is better defensively and in possession, IMO.
When I went back and watched a third time, that first half was the perfect example of what busio’s game is like. He was pretty bad in possession and any time he came back to receive the ball, but combined incredibly well with Reyna at times and put himself in position to get some serious scoring chances. Had a couple shots saved, hit woodwork 2x and hit it another time on a shot that was saved, and had another shot that was off target. Reyna also hit the crossbar. I can’t really say for sure that we dominate that half without Busio, but can’t really say for sure that we lose without him either.
I disagree about some of them. Odunze has made a huge leap athletically. He is a fully grown 6'7" well coordinated monster. Busio possibly the most intelligent player on the team. He makes the team better. Yow might be something like goal scoring Arriola. Pretty useful on a wing.
It's one of life's great mysteries, but @ussoccer97531 could never be persuaded to watch that first half v Mexico.
He had a tremendous first half - the half I watched. Active, creative, full of gumption and attacking spirit. Sometimes the ball just won't go in.
Around Nico Carrera from the comment of @ussoccer97531 I am new into this page, I am aware of this page due to the podcast from @zlebmada, and I disagree on your perception on Nico Carrera! I have seen his development in FC Dallas for years, and my son played with him during his development! Nico has fantastic positioning, agree he is not the fastest, and that is why positioning in his game has been critical, his most significant skills is how he reads the game! He is a brilliant player with a very high soccer IQ. He knows where to break the line and intercept a pass and create a very dangerous position. Also, he can stay high because he can read the game! You perceive this as bad positioning, but in reality, he stays there because he knows how to read the game. That's what makes him very different from the rest. Your comment about speed looks like you see soccer as a game of athleticism, but soccer is a game of IQ. It's about making smart decisions base on your abilities to read the game. He also has a robust ball control. When you see him at training where the defense needs to bring the ball under a lot of pressure, he always finds a way to break the line with a solid pass or taking it by himself! I believe that you are looking more into the traditional CB that only send the pass to the middle. Stay safe and hold his position in the same place. The European requirement of a CB is that they can break the line and can bring the ball to the dangerous position under a lot of pressure. Nico used to play midfield and was converted CB in Pachuca. He can dribble like a solid midfield. The feedback is he never loses the ball! Also, he has a very strong character and a very humble attitude! He was rejected from the FC Dallas academy when he was 13 years old. He went to an FC Dallas team that came from second division into the first division in NT lead by a coach name Tim Spires. That team ends up winning Division 1 in NT over Solar and the FC Dallas Premier. Not only that, but they ended up being the only FC Dallas team making the final in Dallas Cup in 2016, where Nico was the best player by far playing as a #6. He did Alianza de Futbol Hispano where he was the youngest player out of 10K kids around the country and won 12 professional invitations in Miami in the finals. That is how he ends up being in Pachuca, due to Alianza, where he was the captain for the U14 and champion in the Mexican league! He came back to FC Dallas because FC Dallas worked very hard to bring him back! So there is no politics around Nico, no one gave anything to him as some people mention into this page! The best example of his character is in the game v Solar in the play offs. When the game was almost over, he was attacking, and he made a huge run to tackle the solar kid and recover the ball! Nico is an inspiration of the Hispanic community in Dallas as he never gave up on his dream even after being rejected by FC Dallas. He left his home by himself to go to Pachuca, and there is a reason why 12 professional teams in Mexico offered a spot in their academy. And why the Mexican national team and US national team are now fighting over him.
Look at the differences in results between the age groups. I know everyone wants these players to be better than the past age groups, but the results and performances don't say they are. I don't think you can just assume that they'll end up as good as some pretty good players. Maybe so, maybe not. Thats also besides the point about what they currently produce at this level. You criticize guys like Sands, Gloster, Lindsey, Goslin, Acosta, but they were all good and in some cases, very good U-17 players. Gloster was absolutely outstanding during his U-17 cycle. He was better than Bello and Scally showed this cycle. As good as I've seen (outside of the WC) from a U-17 fullback. I think your proclamations about some of these current players level is a little too unrealistic for what they've produced for this team. It might be realistic on their eventual potential, but not current production. I see absolutely no indication Leyva is better than every midfielder on the 2017 team. Goslin was absolutely outstanding in the U-17 WC, and had a very good cycle. I think Leyva will have a better pro career, but thats not the same thing as who was better in this age group. Durkin and Sands played CB at the U-17 WC due to team need, but were definitely better Leyva at the same age (also a year older). Leyva might be similar to Booth at the same age. The main difference being that Hackworth didn't allow Booth to surpass Ferris when his performances indicated he should've. There's such a difference between even and odd birth year players. Pepi's, at best, been above-average in his U-17 performances since being promoted to this team from the U-16's. He's not even outplayed Ocampo-Chavez. If he was as good as Sargent, he'd clearly be the best player on the team. Sargent had four goals in the U-20 WC prior to playing in the U-17 WC, and was dominant in U-17 WCQ. He went about a six month stretch where he scored a goal per game in a US shirt at all levels. It's not even clear that Pepi will be a starter. Good prospect, but there's such a difference between how they project five years down the road and current production. Adams was a rotation player in the U-17's as an odd year player, Pepi isn't too much better, if he's better at all. Reyna's production is not remotely close to Carleton's in the U-17 program. Carleton dominated for two years at U-17 level (and before that for the US at lower levels). There were very few games where he wasn't a top 3-4 player on the field. He was that good. The conversations were being had how his U-17 cycle compared to the best U-17 cycles ever (Pulisic, Adu, etc.). Carleton's play was in that conversation. Reyna may turn into a great prospect, but he's not proven anything near that, except for CONCACAF qualifying. He's played plenty of games against the top level competition, and he simply has not dominated near that level. A comparison to Weah, who similarly didn't accomplish that much as a U-17, might be better. If you take all the age eligible players for this U-17 cycle, which includes the 2003's, I think you can make an argument that these two years could end up similar to 2000 and 2001, in terms of eventual player production, but there's almost no comparison in the results of the teams and the expectations. The U-17's last cycle were similar to our last few U-20 cycles. Dominated all cycle, great talent at almost every position that could compete against any team, embarrassed (at times) some world powerhouses. They ended up going out in the QF's to the eventual winner. I'm not going to rule out that this cycle's team could have a similar (or better) result at the U-17 WC. Youth tournaments are unpredictable, but I think it does the past cycle a huge disservice to compare them. This cycle has had a lot of instability with the coaching. Criticize Hackworth all you want, but that was the best coached U-17 cycle we've had. He got out of the players way, and let them play. This team also has not gotten the results or had the performances that the prior few U-17 cycles have had. Part of that is the lack of Bradenton, which I think helps with results and building a style of play. It might've made our teams better than the talent indicated they were, but that doesn't make this team (without Bradenton) is better than they are. They simply haven't been impressive. We often hear this one half against Mexico cited as the reason why they are going to accomplish so much. If we have to cite one half against a good, not great team (of a game we lost) as the watermark, I think that speaks for itself.
Do you have a readily available copy of the first half? I missed parts of the other games against the minnows in this tournament. I didn't know people would start using this one half as a reason to overlook all the evidence of the whole cycle, and what they've shown in a US shirt prior to U-17 level. As I said though, if this one half is what we are citing that works in this team's advantage, we are in trouble.
Welcome! I hope you stick around. I've watched Carrera for a few years, as well (I must've seen him play 20 times by now). I've also talked to people around the club. I've read the opinions of informed people around here who really do not rate his game. I don't doubt for a second that you have a positive opinion of Carrera, I know some fans do, and I know FC Dallas rates the kid highly (I think thats largely due to the very poor system depth at CB). I'm sure he's a great kid, and I don't doubt any of this stuff you say about his character and work ethic, but I'm purely analyzing his play on the field. I stay away from playing amateur coach on inter-team dynamics I don't know about. If I hear some info about a player, I'll take it into account. I agree with a lot of what you say about his skill-set, but there are parts I disagree. He's excellent at making defensive plays very high up the field. He has good anticipation and reading of the game in this respect, but there are countless amounts of time (and its been well documented on this forum by many different posters) where he takes himself out of position by doing this. He struggles to recover once he's beat because he's his recovery speed is below-average. I think the way Dallas plays exposes him in this respect, but I think its good that we see his strengths and weaknesses. We might not know that he struggles in this area if he played in a team that rarely tried to win the ball high and possess it high with the defenders. I think he's one of the better ball-playing CB's in the '02 pool. He might even be the best, but there are countless times where he'll carry the ball too high up the field, and then the ball is going the other way, and he can't recover in time because he's not fast enough. I think this is an area of the game where he has to better pick his spots. If he doesn't have the best recovery speed (he doesn't), he needs to be more conservative in his ball-carrying. He can't bypass players on foot as easily as some others. Thats just a part of the game he's going to have to get better at. He certainly can, but I think he struggles with this part of the game currently. I also think he struggles in his positioning in the box when his team is defending deep in their area. This is something that has been well-documented in this forum, and more by others than by me. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Carrera is a non-prospect and isn't someone worth tracking, but I don't see him as a really high caliber player that is one of the better players in his birth year. I think the Mexican-American dual-national aspect where he could conceivably play for either country at the U-17 WC adds an element of attention to him that some others don't get. I wish the kid well, and hope he proves me wrong. Hopefully thats playing for the USA.
I am sure you have good intentions, but this is ridiculous. His positioning is so far off the level needed at this point in time. I get his 6’2” or taller frame will gamer him attention, but EVERY scout I have spoken to about him says “positioning” is his biggest weakness. He can and probably will make it as a pro at some level, but he is by far the most overrated, flavor or the moment. His positioning and reading of the game is likes behind Ramsey and Tomlinson at the minute.
It looks like you are a Solar fan and trying to support the kids from that team! The feedback I get from community and scouts is different v what you are saying. His biggest opportunity is speed and crossing the ball from side to side no positioning! I disagree with your statement sorry! when he breaks the line he loses the position of course and that is a major risk! But there is a reason and time when he can do that! I leave this link! for your analysis, I am not saying Carrera is at this level but his game is very similar!
Can we agree that positioning is not high on the necessary checklist for a 16/17 year old center back prospect? I'll take the things that Nico CAN do in balance with the things that he has to work on any day of the week. I think his aggressive play from the back is a huge net positive regarding his potential and how he projects. That goes with the recognition that he makes some costly errors higher up the pitch than most center backs ever even think about playing. He has years to develop and refine his positioning and reading of the game.
This discussion basically highlighted everything you and I have disagreed about over the last two cycles, so perhaps we will just have to agree to disagree. I’ll just say that a lot of the ‘17 team’s successes came from Durkin playing 50 yard diagonal balls or playing the ball into space and all of Carleton, Weah, and Ayo were expecting those passes and streaking down the touch line ready for them. All 4 of those players also played together for most of 3 years. It’s a far cry from plugging in new pieces every camp and switching coaches right before WCQs like the current group has done. Individually, I still think there may be more talent on this team. If you remember, I didn’t say that a year ago but this team has a lot more experience and is starting to prove themselves at the club level. They are improving drastically and pro teams are taking note. The game is still up on concacaf’s facebook page. You just have to go to their page and scroll back in their posts to May when it was streamed. It takes a couple minutes to get there, but I just did it a few weeks ago. I think the final was on May 12th.
Personally, I think he’s a good prospect but I don’t think he’d be reliable in this U17s World Cup. He’s a little erratic and the turnovers he makes will cost us against the better teams. I saw Tompkinson and Ramsey play but didn’t really evaluate them. So far, I don’t really have anyone I want to play that LCB spot over KHF, but I haven’t exactly been looking, either. I figure they either will or won’t find someone.
We can agree to disagree. I respect your opinion, and I hope this team will have a great U-17 WC and show better than I expect. I think I've been high on every YNT cycle at the U-17 and U-20 levels the past three cycles, except for this U-17 team, so its not like I want this team to be bad. I've followed this cycle, despite being bored at times watching them because I don't think they are very good. It's not a fun team to watch, IMO, but I still watch because I'm a fan of our YNT's. The last thing I would say about this (and this isn't necessarily directed towards you) is that for anyone who questions the past U-17 cycle (in any regard), there are many threads they can go back and read. Form your own opinion about that team, if you want. A lot of those games still might be archived. I doubt anyone cares to put in the time to do that, but I followed that cycle, and considered it way better than this one. I also think you could do the same for this cycle. Everyone can go back and read these threads on the current crop of U-17's. There might be some games archived, as well, for this team. I've certainly had a negative opinion on this group of players this cycle, but other people have, as well. Opinions on this age group have shifted after the qualifying tournament, which we didn't even win. Why? I couldn't say. It's been pretty widely agreed upon for a few years that this was a weaker age group. It makes no sense to me. I digress. I'll take a look at that half against Mexico at some point, if the game is still listed.
By definition, this team was going to take a lot longer to come together since the player pool wasn't nearly as consolidated with Bradenton. I don't think we can really compare the cycles until the final squad for this tournament comes together. The way they have evolved to this point has been pretty nice to watch.
Far, far from a Solar fan. Look, we are allowed to disagree in this, I have no issue with you evaluating him differently than I do. The consensus of the FCD staff, Mexican YNT staff and the USYNT staff seem to be much closer to your opinion than mine. That said, I’ve seen him play many, many times and am sticking by my evaluation of him until he shows me otherwise.
I think it's a good point. Sometimes bad plays came from lack of chemistry, instead of players' bad decisions or ability. Please see some soccer powerhouses's U17 ynt, which are suprisingly incoherent as well.
In Carson for the u17s vs Galaxy II. Neither team wearing numbers pic.twitter.com/BsnzGGMht9— USMNT Clips (@USMNTClips) August 6, 2019
USA u17 MNT up 1-0 on LA Galaxy II. Andres Jason with the goal on an assist from Griffin Yow. Adam Armour drew the foul to set up the free kick— J.R. Eskilson (@JREskilson) August 6, 2019 The starting lineup pic.twitter.com/0ZU0P99x2b— J.R. Eskilson (@JREskilson) August 6, 2019