I could have sworn there was a Things we See thread, but could not find one. I saw that I thought was a very ironical situation of a play where the defender deliberately played the ball, thus eliminating the offside possibility of a player in the OSP, but then when the keeper picked the ball up, decided it was not a a deliberate pass back to the keeper..... I'm guessing this makes sense to most of us, but try explaining it to the non-refs when it happens.
Even if it was off the foot, I'm old enough to remember why the Law was put in place: to prevent time wasting. So a desperate poke to get it away from the attacker that happens to go to a place where the keeper can pick it up isn't necessarily time wasting. Among other deliberate plays off the foot. The so-called "Iron Triangle" be damned.
With the current interpretation of deliberate play by a defender in Law 11, it is very easy to have a deliberate play within the meaning of Law 11 without having a deliberate kick to the GK. Even under the most stringent application of the "pass back" visions, the ball has to have been intended to go where it went--there is no such requirement at all for Law 11. So a lunge to try to block a pass on which the defender gets a mere toe on it would clearly be enough to wipe OS, but would also clearly not support a "pass back." (And, of course, as others have noted, if it was not kicked there can easily be a play but not a pass back.) Forget the triangle (which I don't think is taught anywhere any more)--there has been clarity for years that the "pass back" offense is also intended to prevent defenders from taking the ball out of play to prevent attackers from challenging for it. If the defender deliberately pokes it away from an attacker to the GK, that can be an offense--the question (in my opinion) is did the defender (1) deliberately direct it to the GK or (2) make an "anywhere but here" play. The second is not an offense, the first would be. (And I'm going to start from a presumption of (2) in a poke situation and need to be convinced otherwise before I'm going to call that an offense.
Would be very easy not to be a pass back. Defender winds up to hammer it forwards and instead shanks it sideways. Deliberate for offside, but definitely not a deliberate pass back.
I understand all the could-be's. I was just wondering why you determined it not to be in the particular situation you saw. Is that what happened?
Basically, yes. Defender mis hit the ball which went in general direction of the player in OSP, which caused the AR to put his flag up, which made me yell, no offside. This jerked everyone into action because they had all hesitated. The GK got to the ball first, which caused someone to yell about pass back, to which I just shot a dirty look in that general direction.........
Saw another thing today that I had never seen before......... Mens league game with some BIG boys out there. Striker and GK are both over 6'5". I can't really describe how it happened, but both players went up and the GK got the ball and the striker came down on top of the GK, who started to straighten up. This caused the strikers butt and legs to move up vertically so that at one point his feet were about 10 feet off the ground. Then he started to flip over and it looked like he was going to land on his head, but somehow managed to twist so that did not happen. The whole thing happened relatively slowly and several players were attempting to catch and hold him. It looked like raising the flag at Iwo Jima. And strangely enough, no foul called on the play and we were all just happy no one was hurt and we continued on with the game.
So there is a new womens league in town and I get assigned to do a couple of games last night. Field is an absolute nightmare with dips and ruts all over it, but they been playing on it all season............ Game is about to start and just before I am about to blow whistle, one of the ladies runs off the field yelling in Spanish. She is over by her bench (which has lots of husbands and kids hanging around). I turn to one of her teammates and ask if she is coming back. She says yes, and then the player comes back, followed by a guy. Turns out there was a dog turd on the field and the guy was coming out with a plastic bag to pick it up. Somehow, that scenario has never occurred in any mens game I have ever done
That may be true on why the Law was put in place, but I hear many people argue it is also to make goalkeepers play the ball with their feet better. That may be what has now happened, and how many people think the Law should be applied. Not just an obvious attempt to waste time...
Modified games, it seems that the middle schools lease out their playing fields as dog parks when there is no game.
One time I found a turd while checking the field. I pointed it out to the home coach. She sent her kid back to the car to find a plastic bag. When he got back, she told him to give the bag to me. Choose your battles ... sigh.
Several seasons ago, late fall, a garter snake was curled up in the taller grass just outside of the PA and wasn't noticed until right before kick-off... of course, getting a few of the U12 boys to clear away from it was a challenge... A mom screeches, "DOOOO SOMETHING!!!"... so I gave it a RC while home coach was retrieving a corner flag pole to relocate it. Others chuckled, she was not amused.
Hispanic league adult game. Player on blue team blows out the front of his boot and it is flopping when he runs. Few minutes later, guy on the white team comes over and pulls gum out of his mouth and hands it to blue player who uses it to try to "glue" his boot back together. I'm pretty sure it did not help.........
My son was a 'one and done' referee but, before his first center, he had to ask the home team to remove a dead rat from the field. Maybe that's related to why he only lasted one year.
So here is a question about something I didn't actually see, but probably happened. Doing a meaningless (in the big picture) summer girls HS game between two decent teams. 3 refs and I am in the center. We had light rain throughout the game and ball is skipping a lot. Visiting team takes a 3-0 lead and then home team scores 3 goals late. With 2 minutes to go, visitors score again to go up 4-3. With less than a minute left, home team sends the ball into the far corner and I run the diagonal deep into the corner. Wing sends a cross over the middle (towards AR1) and the striker manages to corral the ball, shoots and scores to tie the game. Before the shot, the ball took a high bounce and skipped away from the striker (on the other side of her body from me). It appeared that she might have used her arm to keep the ball close, and immediately 3 defenders called for hand ball. I could not see the actual contact as I was behind her back. But I could definitely sense that it "could" have been handling. After the shot, I went over to AR1, hoping he had a better view. Unfortunately, he said he was screened (almost every player on the field was up in the box) and he did not see it either. I thought about it for 3 seconds and then called handling - no goal. So my question for the class is - do you ONLY call things you DEFINITELY see? Or do you make calls on things that have a high probability, but you would not swear to in a court of law? I am not talking about U littles games, or MLS/FIFA games as those both have different ramifications. But youth premier or HS game with standings that are relatively important.
I make little calls all the time on things I didn’t see. You can’t tell who the ball went off of? Someone has to throw it in. Point and move on. On handling? If you didn’t see it you shouldn’t be guessing or going with calls that defenders make for you. We get screened or blocked off. It happens.
If I can't see it or my ARs can't see it, I don't call it. What if even if there is a strong possibility that something happened, it didn't? You've rewarded the defenders simply because they complained.
Maybe you should have not gone so deep into the corner. This extreme position may have caused you to be in a bad position, with no angle of view, for the next phase of play.
You are correct, in the sense that I was out of position for what happened next. In this case, I was trying to be close because there was some banging/rough play earlier, and also the lines were faint so wanted to be able to call corner kick if it happened.
Which is worse - to miss an important call because everybody was screened, or to make the wrong call because the players "sold" it to you? On little stuff like throw-in direction, no worries. On critical incidents, if a member of the referee team didn't see it, then it didn't happen.