Of course. Even here in the forum has a topic about it. He scored proportionally more FK Goals playing with Udinese (friendly matches as against Real Madrid for example and official matches) than playing in Brazil in his state or national league. Maybe the goalkeepers in Italy were worse than the amateurs in Rio de Janeiro. I don't know.
3 direct freekicks+6 penalties out of 28 total goals 19 open play goals in 52 European matches (EC and uefa cup) We in fact have 3 certain numbers His numbers for the NT His numbers in European club competitions His numbers in serie A =27 free kicks His coppa italia freekicks shouldn't be hard to find Ligue 1 a bit harder This is mythology
We know that isn’t entirely the case, not with Napoli at least for various reasons. We know prior to the 1983-84 season Udinese had finished 6th and Napoli 10th. We also know that Napoli was ranked in Europe, according to the Elo rankings in the same sphere as Udinese. We also know how subjectively each Serie A club was rated by Guerin Sportivo heading into 1983-84 (Udinese ranked 4th while Napoli last in 16th place). We also know by the time the 1983-84 season had concluded that Napoli had finished close to the relegation zone at the 12th position. So while you are correct in the strength of Juventus, you are wrong about Napoli (at least for the first half of the decade).
That's because Maradona scored a diproportionate amount of penalties to inflate his goal tally. In two Serie A seasons (39 matches) Zico has scored eight free kick goals. That's clearly better than Platini who probably had more attempts as well
I' ve never noticed this video thanks. So we have 27 FK in 281 games. Slightly less than 1 FK goal every 10 games. But there are 385 remaining games, played for most of them in the relatively less competitive French league. What makes you think his ratio was significantly inferior there, whereas he was feared for his FK mastery from his beginnings in Nancy ? If we assume he kept his ratio for all his carreer, we stand above the 60 figures indeed. At worse we're above 50 FK, but in any case the 41 figure you provided is wrong.
But at the end of the day Maradona doesn't have better ratio than Platini. Zico is an exception indeed. Other renowned FK takers don't have a better ratio than Platini either.
What is needed is fact based research(not assumptions) Some has already been done(I didn't pull the number 41 out my arse ) There is no guarantee (in fact it is less than likely) he maintained the exact same ratio over such an extended period IF it was the case this pseudo mathematical mumbo jumbo would also make sense Pele got 0.3 APG for Brazil (92 official games) Pele got 9ass/12 WC games = 0.75 APG Pele 3ass/6 Copa games = 0.5APG Pele got 3ass/3games (intercon cup)= 1 APG So in average he got at least > 0.45 APG Now take minimum 0,45 multiply to 1100 games (minus 200+ games of low level) = near 500 assists = very realistic = GENIUS No one ever come close to that ... but 250+ as MAX (like Cruyff, Zico and Maradona) https://www.xtratime.org/forum/348-...ssister-all-time-2.html#/topics/260302?page=4 LMFAO
As indicated in the description of the video, it is 25 of hs 28 european goals. I can remember having found one wich was missing a bit after compiling this but I can't remember against who nor how it was scored. Full list of his matches and goals : http://www.rsssf.com/players/platini-in-ec.html From memory, the 3 goals wich are lacking are the two ones against Kuopion and... 1 another, can't say wich one. But I'm not certain about these two against Kuopion to start with so you'd better compare the video with the list in order to fiund out wich ones are the three goals missing (I haven't re-watch). @carlito86, @babaorum
+ one thing that we can see a bit in this video is that Platini obtained a lot of pk's himself but also by launching somebody in the depth (like Boniek, also others). Most importantly, what I wanted to say, and this is related to previous posts, is that he knew how to obtain free-kicks at the exact place where he wanted to take them. It's not for nothing that it was said that a fk was the equivalent of a pk with Platini.
Not the exact same ratio but the 41 figure (or any figure below 50) you provided would mean a huge gap between his time in France and in Italy. There's absolutely no evidence of that, as what's clear with Platini is that his shooting accuracy is something he mastered from his beginnings. As an evidence, 7 out of his 11 FK with France were scored before 1982 when he was still playing in France. And check out what France football stated when he won his first Golden Ball in 1983 : "In this regard, it seems that Platini has found again this year in Italy all his virtuosity on these dry leaf FK that made his strength and glory in Nancy, Saint-Etienne and France". When I read this sentence, I don't find any evidence of any new skill he suddenly mastered... He obviously possessed this skill before. In fact, he may have been even better in his early years as the following year in 1984 France football stated that "his accuracy was not as good and somewhat dubious". We're talking about a 281 games panel here... I think we can draw some conclusions here.
No, I can't tell. As you already said, one has to check every FF issue to be able to figure it out more precisely. I have the list of all his goals in a "quite recent" France Foot... but I'm not certain if it's precised how they were scored... and perhaps it's even not a list with all the teams he scored against (like they did for Maradona in February '95) but only the numbers. I'll check this but I doubt there will be these details (perhaps you have this mag issue too, it's one from the 2000s even 2010s probably). If only FF had done this work in the 'special issue'... even if not totally accurate because there's always a margin of error ofc, it would have been good to have an idea. Perhaps there's an article in some of the 2 or 3 main mags that says how much fk's he has in D1 at one point in time, but when? Maybe I already came across this so this is why I say it... I try to think about a solution but it's difficult... it's like that. I wouldn't be surprised to see that he scored way less than usually from fk's during one season btw, I think that I already came across something like this once, too... I believe... that he had one season during wich he was less effective at fk's... perhaps due to injury...probably circa '80 or in '80...or by the end of his career maybe, or both. But that doesn't change anything, he's one of the best fk takers of all-time of course, obvioulsy, even the #1 imo, because as you said earlier, he was consistent at it in career and in ultra-decisive moments. It always paid... he knew and everybody could feel that it was a goal before he kicked it. I'm not aware of another player in history who was feared as much as him because of his free-kicks, as if it was already 1-0 for his team before the kick-off only due to this one extraordinary ability (that's the oponnents who are talking). And he could do other things ofc. I still must get my hands on this France Foot issue... but as for the details that we'd want to have... there's little chances unfortunately.
Yeah that's what I thought. Anyway, there's this nice interview with Platini on the France football website (perhaps you've already watched it). That's where he says that "taking a FK was like taking a PK". https://www.francefootball.fr/news/...e-coup-franc-devenait-comme-un-penalty/854652 The FF article following the video states that : "If there is no official statistics on the number of free kicks scored by Michel Platini throughout his career in club and team France, it is taken for granted that the former number 10 of Les Bleus has crossed the bar of 50." I don't think there is any reason to think he did not.
Yes I saw it (but just watched the video at the moment) and commentators said it about him at the time. 50 seems very possible. It's almost like a given, indeed. Then it's difficult to have an idea of what the numbers could be if ever it was more than that. 51? 60? Or it is a little bit less than 50? Predictably, there are no details about his goals into that recent mag issue I was thinking about (FF #3608).
A nice quote from this FF #3608. "There are players who are prolific and others who are decisive : him [Platini] was both". Henri Michel.
That’s what it’s all about: too much emphasis on numbers around this forum at the detriment of valuing situations and contexts that are at stake.
So here’s what we know and don’t know regarding how the media reviewed Platini against the top 15 ranked sides. Excellent 1982 vs Italy (he considered this his best game) Good/very good 1977 vs Argentina good 1977 vs Brazil good 1978 vs Italy very good 1978 vs Brazil good 1982 vs West Germany good/very good (World Cup) 1983 vs Spain good 1984 vs England very good 1984 vs Belgium very good (Euro Championship) 1984 vs Portugal good (Euro Championship) 1986 vs Italy good (World Cup) Mixed (between mediocre and good) 1978 vs Argentina mixed (World Cup) 1978 vs Hungary mixed (World Cup) Average/decent 1984 vs Spain (Euro Championship) 1986 vs Soviet Union (World Cup) 1986 vs Brazil (World Cup) Disappointing 1978 vs Italy (World Cup) 1980 vs West Germany 1982 vs England (World Cup) 1986 vs West Germany (World Cup) 1986 vs Soviet Union (possibly disappointing) Euro Qualifier Uncertain 1976 vs Czechoslovakia 2-2 ranked 9 1977 vs West Germany 1-0 ranked 1 1977 vs Soviet Union 0-0 ranked 9 1979 vs Czechoslovakia 0-2 ranked 9 1980 vs Netherlands 0-0 ranked 4 1980 vs Soviet Union 0-1 ranked 14 1981 vs Belgium 0-2 ranked 6 1981 vs Netherlands 2-0 ranked 6 1982 vs Netherlands 2-1 ranked 11 1983 vs Soviet Union 1-1 ranked 3 1984 vs East Germany 2-0 rank 11 1985 vs Uruguay 2-0 ranked 8 1986 vs East Germany 0-0 (Euro Championship qualifier) ranked 14
I had originally missed the France-Portugal 1984 match and the 1986 France-East Germany encounter. For the 1984 vs Portugal match he received a grade of 4/6 good by Mundo Deportivo (Portugal was ranked 15 at the time).
So here’s the thing: it’s unanimously established from the information available that Platini played well in at least 11 games vs the top sides. That equals the 11 games from Zico but is 7 games short from Rummenigge who did well in 18 games. However, 13 games of Platini have not been determined and remain unclear. Also, Platini played 34 total games vs 47 from Rummenigge. From the information available we have Platini playing well in 11 games out of 21 that were reviewed with a certain conclusion. To reach a proper conclusion against the others I’ll have to narrow it down to several factors: Tournament importance, strength of their Elo rankings and H2H encounters (although friendlies play a little role overall). Statistically (goals+assists) Platini is better than them (previously established):
Ok so now it gets groovy. Previously mentioned Platini has the statistical edge overall against Zico and Rummenigge. Platini beats Zico in better performances overall but with Rummenigge there’s more parity. Let’s review every major tournament including qualification. Platini in major tournaments: 1978 World Cup France qualify after 12 years of absence. Platini is pivotal on their road to qualification with a decisive contribution vs Bulgaria. At the World Cup France are not favorites in their group to come out and challenge yet for a world crown. But Platini has a mixed reviewed tournament through the lens of the media. Disappointing against the Italians and with mixed results vs Argentina and Hungary. In that same tournament neither Zico or Rummenigge shine. Euro 1980 France fail to qualify. Platini features in 2 qualifying matches vs Czechoslovakia and Sweden with mixed results. Rummenigge and West Germany win the competition and press voices regard him as player of the tournament. 1982 World Cup Platini is instrumental in the WC qualifying process by scoring a pivotal goal vs the Dutch at home. At the World Cup France enter as one of the dark-horses. Platini is already established as France’s major star and produces mixed reviews. Good/Very good vs West Germany in the semifinals but disappointing vs England in the group stages. In the semifinals Platini is not fully fit but neither is Rummenigge, whose arrival off the bench galvanizes the Germans, according to various sources. Platini ends 10th best voted player at the World Cup by FIFA’s journalists behind Zico and Rummenigge. Euro 1984 France are at home without the need of qualification. This time Rummenigge and the Germans fail to defend their crown and bow out in the group stages. Platini reigns supreme with 9 goals in 5 matches. It’s his flagship tournament and is considered one of the most impressive displays from one player in a major event. He’s good to very good against Belgium and Portugal but average/decent in the final vs Spain. France win their first ever major tournament and climb to number 1 in the world. 1986 World Cup France qualify thanks to 2 goals from Platini in a decisive match vs Yugoslavia at home. The Yugoslav’s are not a pushover, ranked 20 in the world and fighting for a spot at the WC. At the World Cup Platini is not fully fit and is conditioned with tendinitis. France are the favorites by many world pundits but overall it’s not a strong performance. His best display arrives vs the Italians but is average vs the Soviets and disappointing in the semifinals vs West Germany. Rummenigge is not fit either but the Germans again turn out victorious. Euro 1988 France failed to qualify in a group that consisted of USSR, East Germany, Norway and Iceland. Platini played in several pivotal matches home to the Soviets and away to Easy Germany. In both cases France failed to win and it condemned their chances to qualify. It’s apparent that Platini did not play well in either encounter. He would retire afterwards from the NT.
So many things pop out. There’s ways to reach certain conclusions now. Let’s break it down. First Zico vs Platini: Zico has no chance against Platini’s body of work. The Brazilian’s best tournament was in 1982 and while it’s slightly stronger than Platini at the WC levels it still falls flat. Zico at the WC qualification level can’t be measured in comparison since Brazil mostly faced minnows in Colombia, Bolivia and Venezuela on their road to the WC. Furthermore, Brazil were generally ranked higher than France but still failed to make it to a final in any competition with Zico. To make matters worse, Zico never played well vs Platini in their H2H encounters and even was the scapegoat in the quarterfinals 1986 missing a penalty kick. In general Platini has better stats (goals+assists) and just better overall performances. In addition, Platini orchestrated France’s first ever European championship (1984) while Zico’s only continental tournament (1979) ended in a red card vs a depleted Argentinian team. Winner: Platini With Rummenigge things will get tricky. Stay tuned.
I'm not 100% on this, but worth looking into maybe whether Rummenigge himself, Platini and Zico, despite mixed/interrupted/intermittent tournaments, all showed more or played better in 1978, than Rummenigge in the 1980 Euros. Although the Euro finals were very brief in those days anyway (hence for example Cruyff has a disappointing 1976 Euros 'Finals' but look back further into the qualifiers, equivalent to being part of the finals more recently and its a different story). Certainly I've seen more impressive highlights from all 3 in the 1978WC, and better moments of end product/creativity, compared to KHR in the 1980 Euros Finals. Sometimes maybe who takes the trophy influences the narrative too much re: individual players verdicts?
Of course, to clarify I know the 1980 Euros wasn't the same format as 1976, but still compared to today it was a short tournament. Some sources, I believe, and @PuckVanHeel might have info, declared a Ceulemans or maybe Schuster(?) best player I think though IIRC. And to clarify also, I know that on the other hand sometimes sporadic moments of quality can influence people too much in terms of our thoughts about best players in tournaments, but I'm just not convinced/aware either that Rummenigge in 1980 Euros finals was showing consistent excellence in his displays generally, far in excess of what he, Zico and Platini showed in 1978 WC games.