The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But fan power won in the end. As a grass-roots fan that must make you happy.
     
  2. Placid Casual

    Placid Casual Member+

    Apr 2, 2004
    Bentley's Roof
    My English might not be the best but relocated and contracted. Not the same thing are they?

    They also weren't relocated. Unless I missed something at the games this season.
     
  3. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's not the full story though. Miami's owner/operator's basically quit saying it was impossible to run a team profitably in Miami (some are worried that it still is). He'd already been relying on the league to fund expenses. In Tampa the league couldn't find an owner despite courting the Glazers hard. If someone had come along and offered to buy the team but asked for two years to reorganize I'm sure the league would have listened.
     
  4. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Theoretically, I agree, simply because the owners should enjoy a monopoly in their market. In reality, I don't know that it's actually any better for the owners.

    Because of their nature, American leagues also employ revenue sharing, which is a principal that I generally believe in in life, but it's absolutely bad business for the big revenue teams. Of course, in a closed league, every owner is equally dependent on every other team's stability to keep the league intact.
     
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  5. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Wikipedia article (so, I get it, not the most reliable) stated thy weren't given the option to play there because of the outstanding debt.
     
  6. USRufnex

    USRufnex Red Card

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    #21206 USRufnex, May 26, 2019
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
    I see the out of control mods are engaging in selective censorship again.
    First, I'm banned from a thread a few days ago, and then an apropos quote I post is banned from this thread.... So sick and tired of this bullshit.

    The quote emphasized that equal opportunity is part of America, but equal opportunity doesn't equate to equal outcomes... just the opportunity... just the chance to be able to compete....
     
  7. USRufnex

    USRufnex Red Card

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    #21207 USRufnex, May 26, 2019
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
    MLS has come back to those markets under entirely different organizations and rebranding...

    I mean, I don't really recall the old NASL being particularly proud of returning to major markets they previously failed in under different ownership.

    Happy for who? The fans? Yes.

    But if I were a Columbus fan, I wouldn't trust MLS or Garber as far as I could throw them.

    It wasn't just Precourt arguing against the Modell Law.... it was MLS.
    And MLS was arguing they weren't subject to the law, arguing that "the Crew as an entity do not “exist” in Ohio, that neither the City nor the State can reach them for purposes of forcing a sale."

    Imagine if Notts County were being relocated by their asshole owner and the league they belonged to argued before the courts that the team really was a part of the league itself, not part of the community in which it resides. And that the community has no jurisdiction and any court proceedings should take place in London or Brighton...

    In other words, MLS was literally arguing that, due to their single entity status, this team wasn't even Columbus's team... these MLS corporate asshole lawyers literally argued that "the intangeable rights at issue here are properly located in either Delaware, under whose law MLS exists, or New York, where MLS is headquarted."

    If Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine hadn't filed a lawsuit, the Crew would have left. How you can give MLS any credit whatsoever for how things turned out is nothing short of mindboggling.
     
  8. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    It likely means the Galaxy are looking to up a player's salary who is already at the max or convert an existing DP to a non-DP. Perhaps both.

    Yeah, it's a bit complicated but I don't see why it's something to complain about?
     
  9. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Huh?

    You call Jason a hypocrite, say his club isn’t a club, I ask you what you’re talking about, and you respond with... whatever this is.

    I mean, these are words, and they form sentences, but it’s not a response.
     
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  10. USRufnex

    USRufnex Red Card

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    #21210 USRufnex, May 26, 2019
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
    It's just another symptom of the problem.

    The bigger MLS gets, the more byzantine and ultimately unwieldy its single-entity business model becomes IMO.

    A business model I believe was never intended for an NFL or NBA sized league.
     
  11. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Er, maybe? The broader point is that didn't happen and it's purely speculative to predict what MLS may or may not have done if someone had actually wanted to keep those teams running.
     
  12. DanGerman

    DanGerman Member+

    Aug 28, 2014
    New York City
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #21212 DanGerman, May 26, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: May 26, 2019
    The word is deflection.
     
  13. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Right. And I think your implication that single-entity played a role in their downfall is flawed.
     
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  14. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    These rules have nothing to do with single-entity and everything to do with the attempt to keep growing the quality of the league while keeping parity (I'm not sure they're successfully doing that, but that's the goal). Have you ever seen the NBA salary rules? Equally byzantine but they are not a single-entity league.
     
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  15. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're not the only poster who's had his words edited to avoid political content. I deleted several entire posts earlier this week.

    You are, however, the only poster who's complained about having political content edited out of his post.

    It's not selective. Why you chose to play the martyr when subjected to the same guidelines as everybody else is your problem.
     
  16. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good points, although I'm not sure I concur.

    I think revenue sharing is something more leagues in Europe should look at. If La Liga teams shared TV revenue more equitably, it might make the league more competitive. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Premiership look at how the NFL does business as something they could learn from?
     
  17. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Single entity absolutely played a role in their downfall, just not for the reasons @M implies: MLS was cutting teams and those were the markets they decided to cut (or for San Jose, move). This couldn't really have been done if they weren't single entity. At least not without a lot of parties being on board.
    But it was a feature, not a bug, in this instance.
     
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  18. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fair enough. But I don't think that's an indictment of single-entity.
     
  19. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    From the owners' perspective, it largely depends on what they think the "product" is: their team or the league.
     
  20. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    No, I agree. I would definitely say it saved the league in that scenario.
     
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  21. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They were contracted because there were no owner/operators willing to take the teams on.
     
  22. Baysider

    Baysider Member+

    Jul 16, 2004
    Santa Monica
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    This is the key question and I think part of the success of MLS is that they understood that the correct answer for the US was ”the league”. If it was just a bunch of startup teams going their own way you end up with the NISA fiasco.

    The EPL has also prioritized the league, at least relative to other european leagues, which I think is part of the reason for their success.
     
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  23. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    There is no right or wrong answer here.
     
  24. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Yes, but they could just as easily contracted KC, Columbus, or whoever at that point. Investor/operator was fungible, especially in a time of crisis like that. This is still has very few similarities to an independent club failing.
     
  25. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Fwiw, I don't think NISA's issues have much to do with this given that we know next to nothing about actual clubs involved.
    NPSL Founders Cup, on the other hand...
     

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