I just wanted to add further detail to this: corporate ticket purchases account for about a third of all tickets sold in US professional sports. This means 15% of all tickets sold are unused corporate tickets. The number is likely higher for top-tier pro leagues, because that is where most of the corporate ticket purchases are. These no-shows tend to have no correlation whatsoever to fan interest in any particular game because they mostly depend on an unrelated business's activities. Throughout the regular season, at least 15% of the seats at a sold-out game will be empty, no matter how significant the game may be.
Sorry about your luck, bud. If you’re going to keep posting that straw man, I’m going to keep torching it.
Their attendance was the same as when they finished comfortably in mid-table. Well the Dutch company that owns 65% of Juve bet on the wrong horse but they'll be back. But a lot of investors are individual fans. Nottingham Forest fans lost a fortune after their club as floated back in the 1990s. I'd laugh but I lost a substantial sum I "loaned" to Notts County before they went into administration.
This doesn't contradict that, though. Their attendance was being used as an example of fans apparently not being engaged during a relegation battle because they have the lowest attendance in Serie A, when in fact 9-10k is the high water mark of what Empoli realistically draws.
Seems that would point to a relegation battle not spurring any interest or excitement beyond what they've already got middling around in the top tier. That's kind of the point considering what others are pushing about att and what pro/rel provides in that regard.
There's no indication that Empoli would draw more if they were challenging for an EL spot. The point is that the fans are as engaged as ever. It's a bad example for the point the poster was trying to make.
It's the most popular spectator sport in the country. That might have something to do with it as well. The University of Nebraska football team went 4-8 last season. 90,000 fans showed up to watch the Spring intersquad scrimmage last week. Hell, I watched it on TV.
In my defense--I watched it on DVR later that weekend, and fast-forwarded through much of it. I don't need to see every minute, just a preview of what the team might look like this Fall. Also, a kid from my hometown who'll be a sophomore made some plays (WR) so that was cool to see.
07/08 as they were finishing 18th and being relegated to Serie B they drew 9104 in the 13/14 season they only drew 4421 as they were finishing 2nd in Serie B and in the auto promotion/promotion playoff battle between 2nd and third. The "pro" part of pro/rel didn't appear to do anything for the fan base. BEING a Serie A side shows their apparent current ceiling on att in the mid 9000's ... the rest of the att averages for them doesn't show pro or rel doing anything to excite the fan base as it is argued that pro/rel does. They have a "Serie A avg" and a "not Serie A" avg att.
We've already discussed Serie A/B attendance differences at length, though. This is also not what the original comment was getting at.
Good thing your straw men are made of ready-ignite kindling then, eh How does the part of their relegation battle att being just what their Serie A att is not address that? The att points to them being in Serie A as the draw, not the relegation battle. or was there a comment somewhere I missed?
If Empoli were permanently consigned to the minor leagues, I doubt their attendance would be anywhere near as high as it is with the excitement of pro/rel. That's the real reason it was a bad example.
I totally agree with this, but it's testimony to how our arguments get unmoored from their tethers. The original comment: Empoli FC would have the lowest average attendance in Serie A regardless of whether or not they are in a relegation battle or competing for a Europa League spot, that's just who they are as a club. However the subtext behind the comment is that their attendance is the lowest because they are in a relegation spot, and while looking at their spot on the attendance table for one year in isolation would appear to bear this out, in context it doesn't actually reveal much of anything except Empoli is apparently generally an afterthought.
No they're a bad example because they undermine your hypothesis. If pro/rel were introduced in the USA we could end up like England, or we could end like Italy. I think it's more likely to be the latter as there are very few examples of successful grass roots teams going on to play in major leagues.
That's why I published the average attendance over multiple seasons. It seems like no-one in Empoli is particularly excited about promotion but they'll turn out to watch Serie A games.
Markets are different was my point. Just because a game with relegation consequences sells out in England doesn't mean a similar game is a must see, sold out event elsewhere. Also if a cap in interest level is acceptable in Italy, why not for closed leagues in the U.S.? Some fans selling their tickets because their team is out of the playoffs is what it is. Same thing goes for 90,000 showing up for a scrimmage. I don't see why these fans should be shamed because they appreciate their sport and team of choice for the actual on field play as much as the standings and league structure.
But you used an example of a "grass roots" team that has gone on to play in a "major league" And there are several others in Serie A.
Based on Empoli's historical attendance averages, this year has, for all intents and purposes, been "sold out". They just happen to play in a municipal stadium that is roughly two times larger than they could ever fill. I'm not sure what this means, are you referring to the divide between Serie A and B attendances, or Empoli F.C. specifically? Also, while I don't know how to answer about whether or not it's "acceptable", I'm not sure the status quote in Italian soccer is particularly sustainable.
That's where my thoughts were going. If being in Serie A and having giants like the Milan clubs/Juve, and larger clubs like Napoli/Roma/Lazio come to town doesn't bring people out (nor does the pro/rel races) for Empoli ... then why are American soccer clubs chastised for an apparent "only 10-12K fan base" ????