Working with young/new AR's

Discussion in 'Referee' started by ReALbigfan, Mar 28, 2019.

  1. ReALbigfan

    ReALbigfan New Member

    Aug 4, 2009
    Utah
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Greetings!
    This is my first post. This is my 9th year as a youth referee. I have a question about working with new or young AR's. Tonight I had a match where I 'waved down' an offside call by my young AR, because the player that he had flagged for offside was clearly in his own half when the ball was played from a teammate. The play progressed, I waved down my AR, and the result was a great save by the keeper in a 1v1 situation, parrying the ball away for a corner. At this point the defending team's coach is going ballistic on me about 'not waving' down my AR, and that I need to support his call. I explained, numerous times that I had the better view, and that the attacking player was in his own half when the ball was played. He didn't want to hear it, but whatever. Ok, so whats the point of my post? After the match, a parent came up to me and told me that me waving down my AR killed the AR's confidence (boy, about 14 or 15), and that, according to the parent, the AR was hesitant to raise his flag, even on seemingly obvious offside calls. I didn't agree with his assessment, and let him know that the AR did raise his flag at other times during the remainder of the game. His assertion was that I should have let the AR's call stand, even though I had a better view, just for the sake of building the kid's confidence. Long story short, what do you do to build the confidence of your young/new AR's? How often do you have to 'wave down' your AR's calls? How do you handle the teaching moments? Post match note: I did talk to the AR afterward, and let him know exactly why I waved him down, and he seemed to understand.
    Thanks!!
     
    dadman repped this.
  2. seattlebeach

    seattlebeach Member

    AFC Richmond
    May 11, 2015
    Not Seattle, Not Beach
    Looks to me like you handled the situation very well: you saw your AR make a clear mistake, you waved him down, and you explained it (I assume respectfully) so he'll know why and catch it next time. Pay no mind to either the coach who wanted the call or the random parent who's giving you unsolicited advice based on his so-called perception about your interaction with your team member.

    Some little stuff: if the game is slow enough/a ball goes far enough away that you have a moment to run over to the AR and explain what happened closer to the moment of play, so that you don't risk the loss of confidence (which can happen), then take it; and avoid any back-and-forth with parents - "thank you, I appreciate it" is good enough.

    Nice work! Thanks for taking all of it seriously.
     
    dadman and IASocFan repped this.
  3. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    This is key. Also a thumbs up here and there, either after the wave-down, or after a good call, can work wonders. But the explanation is critical, maybe including a wee bit of praise for calling it in the first place, and the reason for overruling it. A lot depends on the age and experience level of the AR.
     
  4. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    What age group?
    If the AR is only 14-15, I'm assuming the players are much younger than that.
    I think I would have gone with the wrong call and then explained afterward as to why you thought it was wrong but that you've got confidence in him and always have his back.
     
  5. sulfur

    sulfur Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
    This sends entirely the incorrect message.

    If you, as the referee, have information that indicates that a call one of your assistants has made is not correct, then it's your duty to make the correct call, and as both @Bubba Atlanta and @seattlebeach stated, acknowledge the AR's signal (thumb up), wave them down, continue on, and then spend a few moments explaining why afterwards.

    Why would you want to make an incorrect call here?
     
    davidjd, dadman, IASocFan and 4 others repped this.
  6. BrianD

    BrianD Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jun 29, 2018
    I usually explain the wave-down by explaining what I saw that the AR may have missed. I then repeat that he should always signal what he sees. I also try to tell the ARs before the game that I will only wave them down if I see something they didn't and they shouldn't take it personally. A wave-down should be rare and is a great opportunity to educate and bond.
     
    dadman, IASocFan, GlennAA11 and 3 others repped this.
  7. MJ91

    MJ91 Member

    United States
    Jan 14, 2019
    Like others have said, that is key - help them to understand and learn.

    I usually mention it during our pregame so that if they get waved down, they know it's just part of the process... "We're a team with different angles of view. It might be impossible for you to see that a defender actually played the ball from a crowd of players while you're watching 2LD, but I might catch it. Every AR, me included, gets waved down from time to time, it's part of us working together to get it right."


    This x2.

    This x5.
     
    dadman, IASocFan, GlennAA11 and 3 others repped this.
  8. kayakhorn

    kayakhorn Member+

    Oct 10, 2011
    Arkansas
    This! Addressing this possibility in the pregame should prevent most hard feelings and potential loss of confidence. That and a brief supportive discussion at the half or end of the game.
     
    GlennAA11 repped this.
  9. Schlager

    Schlager Member

    Dec 5, 2016
    Rep for what everybody else has said. In addition...

    Like others have said, if the AR was only 14-15, then the players were likely younger. At this level, I wouldn't have a problem holding up play for a quick second at the next dead ball to have a word with the AR regardless of how slow play is or how far the ball went out of play. You can "sell" the call and rebuild the AR's confidence at the same time.
     
    voiceoflg and Bubba Atlanta repped this.
  10. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    U10 coach a couple of weeks ago: "Ref are you gonna add time for the time you spent talking with your AR?" :rolleyes:
     
    IASocFan repped this.
  11. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    I can accept this on a TI at midfield or an OS that went out for a GK or just to the GK. But no, we should not accept a clearly incorrect OS flag that would take away a scoring opportunity just to support an AR. The game is about the players, not the AR.

    As others have said, talking about wave downs in the pregame is important to help new refs feel it is part of the process.

    My key critique, as I read it, is the handling of the coach. A coach "going ballistic" does not get the same explanation "numerous times." He should get it once, be told that is enough, and if he can't accept that, should be invited to leave. One of the best things experienced referees can do to help new referees is to control inappropriate behavior so that knucklehead coaches learn what is acceptable behavior.
     
    dadman, IASocFan, GlennAA11 and 6 others repped this.
  12. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    This x10.
     
    dadman and IASocFan repped this.
  13. Spencedawgmillionaire

    Mar 2, 2017
    Belleville, ILLLLLLLLINOIZE
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    This 10X from me, as well.

    I had, during a 4-game stretch in a tourney (semi-finals included), 3 different brand-new referees. One had a few games experience with U12 AR.

    These were U15 semi-finals, so a bit fast and competitive. The two other ARs had zero, and I mean ZERO experience, and one of them I had to coach for OS a LOT, she was really really confused as to where to be, who tot rack etc...

    First and foremost, I explain to them that it's OUR pitch, not mine, so if they see something that I don't call, then wave your flag and call me over and we talk. I tell every new referee that I'd "Rather be correct, than 'right'."

    If they're unsure, I tell them I'll cheat a bit their way to help out, but I trust their calls and if I wave them off, I'll let them know why later.

    I also always explain to them that if they hear anything they think they shouldn't from coaches or parents or players to wave me down and I'll deal with it.

    I do everything I can to let them feel like we're a team and I have their back unreservedly.

    As far as boosting their confidence post-match, I ALWAYS ask them if there's anything they think I missed or could work on and give them a few pointers. When I was new I felt like a grade 7 asking me if I thought they missed anything or whatnot was a big boost of confidence for me.
     
    dadman, IASocFan, seattlebeach and 3 others repped this.
  14. MJ91

    MJ91 Member

    United States
    Jan 14, 2019
    I know this is "master of the obvious" by reiterating how an appropriate pregame and halftime talk with youngsters/newbies can be huge (though not always possible when games schedules are tight).

    It's just like coaching players...

    Mentally calm them and reinforce their confidence in what they do know at that point in their development. Not an exhaustive lecture of duties and mechanics, but reviewing simple priorities/objectives. Throw in a, "Oh, and can you holler at me if the girls start pulling each other's pony tails behind my back?" -- get 'em to smile. Watching their reactions to tell if/when they are feeling overwhelmed or don't understand.

    Ask a few questions and really listen, let them take it wherever they want to go... it exposes their comfort level, concerns, or something they want clarification on. Get them talking/thinking about their job and decision making and how we'll work together as a team... Everyone's gonna make some mistakes today and we'll work through ours -- I've got your back.

    At halftime, it's highlight some things they've done well then either coach them on something they're struggling with or help them identify additional responsibilities they can/want to work on... Keep 'em challenged but not overwhelmed. Same for post-game if there's time.

    Being older and having run the local rec league for years, I have zero shame in holding pregame "church" with the coaches... "We're training new referees so eventually you won't have to deal with me anymore. [smile]. To you, today, they do not exist. [wink]. We good? Thank you, Coach!"
     
    tomek75, dadman and Bubba Atlanta repped this.
  15. HoustonRef

    HoustonRef Member

    May 23, 2009
    Years ago I was doing, as I recall, an U16 or so boys match. One of my AR's was a young girl - probably 14 or 15 - and short for her age. She told me before the match it was her very first one! In the pre-game I went over the key elements (generally as mentioned above). The first half I called a couple of clear offsides which she failed to flag. At half time we reviewed them.

    Early in the second half there was a clear offside with the attacking OS player some 10 or so yards directly in front of the keeper. Her flag popped up as the ball went directly to the keeper and was cleanly picked up. Normally I would have waved down any flag and let play continue. However, this time I loudly blew my whistle and gave her a thumbs up. She had a big smile. Supporting new and young AR's can be done in a number of ways.
     
    tomek75, dadman, IASocFan and 1 other person repped this.
  16. chwmy

    chwmy Member+

    Feb 27, 2010
    Agree wholly with SoCal lurker as well...

    For ARs that I know are new or newish, and also for ones that may be experienced but I haven’t worked with before, in pregame I emphasize that we should make eye contact at every stoppage of play. I empower them by encouraging them to call fouls in their area of control, and remind them to consider advantage appropriately when doing so. If I know it’s literally one of their first few games, I will remind them what comprises the offside line, and what is involvement. I ask them to give me first crack at fouls in the PA but if they see a clear foul I don’t see because of angles, to get their flag up and we’ll do it their way. I give them what I expect for handling, foul throws, etc so very rare need for wave down. I often will ask them what they want to work on to get better on that game. I ask them to give me what they have for direction on a ball out of bounds on my touch and end lines, and we can go up together if we want. I tell them if they call me over to handle a coach, I will do so and if they want a dismissal and they have done ask and tell, I am happy to send him off, but if they want me to do ask and or tell, I can do that too no problem.

    I tell them that regardless of the level, the ref team can be sharp and energetic, and the fist bump at the center circle is “let’s be great” or “let’s kick ass.”

    During the game, those brief eye contacts are a chance to share a quick thumbs up. It also lets them know I want their information and involvement. If they’ve given an offside, I will also often say “thanks, <name>!” Or “good stuff!” Or again the thumbs up. If I have an injury that gets attended to, I will go over to the closer one and talk with them while the trainer is doing his/her thing, and ask if they had what I had or not. Bottom line, keep them engaged and feeling useful.

    Stopping the game to go over to give advice is to me emasculating and embarrassing. And as for critiquing at half or end of the game, I ask for their feedback on me first. If it is someone who has worked and done their best, I give them thanks and perhaps one and only one suggestion on mechanics or something to think about. Of course any wave down should be explained in detail.
     
    IASocFan and GlennAA11 repped this.
  17. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    But that's why I asked about the age of the players.
    At young ages, the game is about learning, both the players and the officials.
     
  18. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Sorry, just can get on board with this. I'm not taking away a 9 year old's completely legitimate chance to score to make my AR feel good about a call he missed. There are much better ways that I can and do support my young ARs.

    I just don't see it a good lesson for the AR to explain after the game that he missed the call that took away the chance for the game winning goal from a kid. That's not going to make him feel any better than night.
     
    IASocFan, Kit, Geko and 1 other person repped this.
  19. Dayton Ref

    Dayton Ref Member+

    May 3, 2012
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I do this with just about any AR that would be defined as a 'kid' to the coaches.
     
  20. MJ91

    MJ91 Member

    United States
    Jan 14, 2019
    Many great points in your post and that one really rings home...

    When I started doing HS, as we'd head to the center circle at halftime I'd be mentally reviewing all my possible blunders. But there were several veteran CR/R1's who always spoke first: "Tell me what you're seeing that I'm missing out here."

    Made a world of difference in my mindset. I started doing the same on my youth games.
     
    dadman, IASocFan and seattlebeach repped this.
  21. Sam_C

    Sam_C Member

    Manchester City
    Brazil
    Jun 19, 2018
    Maybe this is just me being young and stupid, but I'm not going to disadvantage the keeper in this situation just to make a crew member feel good. I'm absolutely giving the AR a thumbs up, probably saying something in the moment as well as after the half, but stopping the game in your exact situation just to encourage the new AR feels like a line we shouldn't be crossing. Obviously, I'm giving my two cents so you all have a chance to change my mind (and please do).
     
  22. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    i totally see your point.
    just two different approaches
     
  23. jazehr

    jazehr New Member

    Mar 30, 2007


    If it is possible make a loud show of how it is your call "Attacker #10 was onside when the ball was played". Make solid eye contact with your AR as soon as possible and make sure they know you understand how that call could have been made. Reinforce mid-game/post-game that a player coming from an onside position and receives the ball behind the defense is hard to catch and you yourself have made that mistake before, whether you have or not. Unless something else bigger happens you need to bring up the offside call first during half/postgame. If they don't understand it will be a learning opportunity if they do understand it is a 10-20 second conversation. Then ask if they have any other questions and ask for their feedback on you like chwmy says.

    As for the parent do your best to not even engage, but if you must give them one line, "My AR and I have discussed it and he was correct in everything else and I look forward to working with him again."

    If possible defer to the AR on every call that could be theirs for a bit after the offside call, out-of-bounds, corner vs goal kick etc.

    The coach really should only need to know that "It was my call, the attacker came from an onside position. We got it right."

    If the new AR is 14 or 15 the kids are probably no older than 13. This may be the first time the players/coaches/parents have actually seen this call in this manner. I don't know how much youth ARs are really over-ruled so it may not be that common an occurrence.
     
    dadman repped this.
  24. MJ91

    MJ91 Member

    United States
    Jan 14, 2019
    Obviously I don't know the overall game situation before the call...

    Hypothetically, maybe something like: non-playoff game, nothing "at risk", everyone's behaving; defending team's up 4-0 and easily controlling the match with demonstrated skills building from the back... An IFK just above their PA vs. keeper in possession appears somewhat of a wash... "trifling advantage" if you will.

    I don't think anyone would suggest it as a recurring practice. It is a legit offside signal and CR's decision on advantage or not. Perhaps on that one call, on that play, in that game, on that day, it didn't take anything obvious away from the players or the game?

    IOW, I'd suspect @HoustonRef chose the moment with some discernment.

    Side note: Yes, the players and the game are the priority. In addition, I'm getting old(er) and when working with young referees I do give a thought or two about our game and their development, their future games, and ultimately their choice at the re-certification crossroads... and I'm not on premiere, DA, ECNL, etc. games.
     
  25. threeputzzz

    threeputzzz Member+

    May 27, 2009
    Minnesota
    I have sometimes found it necessary to remind coaches and/or players that AR signals are information for my use, not theirs.
     
    dadman, Rufusabc and Sport Billy repped this.

Share This Page