American Soccer Progress

Discussion in 'Youth & HS Soccer' started by Cantona's Eyebrow, Mar 18, 2019.

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Why are the USA still so irrelevant on the world soccer stage?

  1. Due to the dominance of more traditional American sports.

  2. Due to the poor standard of the MLS.

  3. Poor quality of coaching at grass roots level.

  4. Issues with player pathway from grassroots to club level.

  5. More money needed in the sport.

  6. The nation is tactically naive at the higher level.

  7. Kids more interested in playing Xbox

  8. Lack of ambition/commitment from players

  9. Lack of flair and passion for the game at the top level.

  10. The socio-economic impact of America's War on Drugs/Terror.

  11. Just unlucky.

  12. Other

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There are other pockets of street/pickup soccer here and there. Here in the DC suburbs of northern VA you see lots of pickup soccer in parks and open spaces, as well as at indoor facilities.

    You also see lots of "elite" club soccer.

    What's interesting is that the kids playing the latter are almost never found among the former.
     
  2. Neko975

    Neko975 Member

    Red Star
    Serbia
    Jul 4, 2018
    OK, I will take this as a reasonable argument.
    There is a problem though,
    I believe we produce a lot of rice....
    I looked into it on Google and did not found recent numbers but in 2006 we were number ONE in the world in youth soccer participation. It said that 2.3 milions boys and 1.6 on girls side.
    A lot of rice, not enough skilled and smart farmers.
     
  3. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    #28 mwulf67, Mar 27, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
    Fair point, most simply analogies are ever prefect, and this one is no exception…

    Youth soccer participation is generally high in this country…however, it’s my perception that those number skew toward the very young…lots of kids start playing soccer at 4 or 5, NOT because kids or their parents know and love soccer, but because it’s typically the first organized recreational sport available to play…its super easy to take a few kids, setup a couple of goals, throw a ball on the field and let them go at it, and call it “soccer”…but let’s be honest, for most parents, it’s just a means to get their kids to run around a bit and/or to start building competitiveness in our kids…

    This isn’t necessarily a bad thing…it’s a great opportunity to be first in the door, so to speak…but I am not sure we are leveraging that opportunity very well. As kids get a little older and other more popular sports open up to them, we start losing them in droves…by HS, many of our best overall athletes have left soccer altogether…perhaps, we should do better with those who remain; or perhaps we are doing the best we can…

    I will throw out another analogy…the knife and stone. A knife can’t sharpen itself; it needs a stone. For every world class player produced, it take many near-world class or decent players to play with and against. In other counties, a near-world class player can make a decent, rewarding living; in the US, that same player/athlete is probably much better off playing or doing something else…
     
    Beau Dure repped this.
  4. Terrier1966

    Terrier1966 Member

    Nov 19, 2016
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    It’s hard to incorporate every facet into our thinking but I would toss out that many much smaller countries produce better output, rice or soccer. The sheer number of farmers doesn’t mean rice production is efficient or optimized. They may be hurting each other as they fight for resources and put the interest of their farm ahead of quality rice production.

    I agree with both of your points and suggest our size creates problems that exacerbate the problem with too few quality farmers.

    Our development programs, until the last decade, were often local clubs with no grand strategy. Moms and dads could be coaches of “A teams” if they had a license...which often meant they took the classes but still might really know or get the game.

    I don’t suggest DA’s are the solution but they are better than 5,000 local clubs trying to win state cups.
     
  5. smontrose

    smontrose Member

    Real Madrid
    Italy
    Aug 30, 2017
    Illinois, NW Suburb
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    is there a mechanism in place to identify young players at those 5000 local clubs? If not, why not? What if a talented kid at one of those clubs is challenged geographically, financially and can't be in the DA orbit?
    Plenty of athletic talent in this country to go around but the athlete isn't the focus
    Lastly, seems like the status quo is fine with governing body and MLS.
     
  6. TheKraken

    TheKraken Member

    United States
    Jun 21, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think that was the orignal purpose of ODP, but money has gotten in the way of that even. I bet I live in the largest metropolitan area without a DA. Closest one is 2 hours away. Lots of talented kids here though, so it would be nice if there was another way.
     
  7. jvgnj

    jvgnj Member

    Apr 22, 2015
    I don't know anything about the historical shortcomings of ODP and why it's been somewhat left behind, but it does seem like it would be a good structure to identify and keep tabs on players in a country as large as the US. Theoretically, players could stick with clubs close to their homes and this would be an "extra" available to more competitive players. Doesn't work that way, for whatever reason.
     
  8. Terrier1966

    Terrier1966 Member

    Nov 19, 2016
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    I believe I said I wasn’t suggesting DA was the solution.
     
  9. jvgnj

    jvgnj Member

    Apr 22, 2015
    Yes, I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I was just observing that the ODP structure, at least on its face, looks like it could be a good one given the size of the US. For whatever reason(s), it didn't work or was replaced.
     
  10. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon Member+

    Feb 27, 2017
    I totally agree. I've said so here before that I think USYS should embrace the ODP structure and force clubs to allow their kids to participate. As I understand it (could be wrong), DA's won't allow kids to be in ODP. Don't get me wrong, they shouldn't force kids to participate, but they should be allowed to.

    IMO, ODP games could be 4 weekends a year with training scattered throughout the year. Treat it as professional clubs do "international duty" now.
     
  11. Terrier1966

    Terrier1966 Member

    Nov 19, 2016
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    I don’t know what the right name would be but there is a constant desire to “pull up” and whatever works today will soon be replaced by something “better”.

    Can’t say if this is because parents want their kids to be more elite than the current elite and thus strive for the highest level of premier- elite -select - super - venti -specialness.

    Could be because there is always money to be made with the next new league or level.

    Could be because as you expand any level it gets watered down and people don’t like spending money and time to travel 2 hours and beat some state ODP team 8-0.

    The last one was where we ended up...did one year in ODP and the competition was distinctly less than would be found in the top brackets of club tournaments. Thus, it wasn’t worth the time, money and effort.

    Lastly, if you told parents that college coaches actually didn’t go to any tournaments but could be found eating strawberry walnut kiwi pancakes at iHop then suddenly every kid would be a champion pancake eater.

    The perceived rainbow is a scholly and parents will go to any length to get their super star in front of coaches.

    As soon as they hear coaches don’t go to ODP, state cup, regionals etc they are willing to sign up for anything else.
     
  12. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon Member+

    Feb 27, 2017
    Just to stir up trouble... is a scholarship the reason YOUR family moves around? If so, you're part of the problem. If not, why do you assume every family is looking for scholarships. Obviously some do.

    But I bet you more families want their kids to enjoy what they're doing and get exercise. IF it ends in a scholarship, great. If not, eh, ok.

    As far as poor performance by an ODP team, is that a failure of the ODP system, or is it a failure of the DA system that won't let their players participate in other soccer/team activities?

    The ODP system COULD help benefit the NT, but there needs to be a change of mindset from coaches, parents, and players.
     
  13. SpiceBoy

    SpiceBoy Member

    Barcelona
    United States
    Aug 2, 2017
    I think the failure of the ODP system relates back to the State USYS affiliates (for example IYSA in Illinois) that treated ODP as a golden goose and drove the program into the ground thus causing USCS to create its own ODP and then USSF to create its own National team Scouting platform (US soccer training Centers / ID centers)
    I think the US Soccer training centers / ID centers are the way to go, however they need more of them with representation from a larger base of players.
     
  14. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon Member+

    Feb 27, 2017
    As far as I know, in my state, there is just the USYS ODP system. FWIW, no DA program in my state either.
     
  15. Terrier1966

    Terrier1966 Member

    Nov 19, 2016
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    Uh, no.
     
  16. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon Member+

    Feb 27, 2017
    Didnt think so. But then why do you think every other family's goal is a scholarship? I'm sure there are some, but I'm guessing they're in the minority.
     
  17. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    My guess it varies by age…I would agree everyone starts out not thinking about it much…

    The U13-U16 range is probably where people get caught up the most in the whole scholarship thing…college starts be a thought, but it’s still far enough away that finding the “right” club/team/coach feels like It will make a difference…

    By U17, for the most part, you're on whatever path you're on…vmmv…
     
  18. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon Member+

    Feb 27, 2017
    I think you're missing the point. I've read here and on other boards where a sports parent will criticize others (en mass) for only looking toward a scholarship. But it's funny, THEY aren't just looking for a scholarship. So my question is, why do they assume everyone else is?

    Of course that is the goal for SOME parents. But they're in the minority. So does it make sense to paint other parents with such a broad brush?

    As for me, do I hope DS gets a scholarship? Sure. But it's not the end goal. If he quits soccer or doesn't get an offer, then he'll just go to college.
     
  19. pu.ma

    pu.ma Member

    Feb 8, 2018
    This is just my opinion. I believe that every parent whose kid is playing in the top tier thinks that there is a chance. It may not be the end goal, but it is a goal.
     
  20. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon Member+

    Feb 27, 2017
    But are they making decisions (what club, what team, what coach) based solely on whether it helps them get a scholarship?

    As I said, I'm sure lots of families HOPE for a scholarship. We do. But if DS came to us (and he plays on the top team in his state) and says he doesn't like the stress and just wants to play rec next year, our argument isn't going to be "well, you won't get a scholarship". Actually, we probably won't argue at all.
     
  21. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Rec’s easy….what if he wants to play on some low-level team, at the same cost and commitment as the Top Tier Team? Do you still shrug that off?
     
  22. Terrier1966

    Terrier1966 Member

    Nov 19, 2016
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    Because my kids all played into that age range, and beyond,..I have sat at several hundred soccer matches and talked to dozens of parents, coaches and recruiters.

    Due to good fortune we were able to experience playing at the levels where kids are recruited. The discussions at Disney or Jeff Cup or Phoenix or National League were often “how many coaches will be at the game”, “which coaches signed in with the manager”, “who did the coaches ask about” etc.

    Likewise, lack of playing time at a showcase was a frequent sore spot.

    The whole concept of ID Camps is predicated on families seeking college opportunities.

    Families in America pursue billions of dollars of scholarships a year, athletics, academic, arts etc. I didn’t think that was a revelation.

    As an aside, no, everything I observe in this world does not reflect my personal circumstance.
     
  23. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon Member+

    Feb 27, 2017
    huh? Not following. If he's playing rec, then we don't have travel... gas, meals, hotels, etc. I'm guessing rec might have two practices a week, but there is no way the same costs.
     
  24. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    That’s my point…rec is easy and cheap…my question is would you be just as cool with your (high preforming) kid playing lower-level club, with relative same cost, travel and commitment, but with much lower opportunity (not that it might have been high in the first place) for college and/or scholarship?

    If we are going to pay all this money and make these huge commitments, shouldn’t “end goals” come into play, at least at some level?

    edit: I am somewhat playing devil’s advocate…I am not a big scholarship guy, but I do think more parents think about it more then you seem to give credit….
     
  25. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon Member+

    Feb 27, 2017
    oh, okay. Yes, I would. The club that's where I live is where DS (and now DD) started. It's almost half the cost of the club he's at right now, and the furthest travel is ~2-3 hours (compared to the 7-12 hours we can travel now). If he said "next year I want to play for local club", yes, I'd be ok with it.

    I never said parents don't think about it. But IMO, there's a difference between "hoping"/"thinking about" and feeling the scholarship is the end goal.
     

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