Tyler Adams

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by TheFalseNine, Nov 9, 2017.

  1. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    Someone needs to ask Jesse Marsch what he thinks of this position for Adams. He would likely have some interesting insight.
     
    schrutebuck and Patrick167 repped this.
  2. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I will just address this once more. I can listen to the Mexican shows, and see heavy debate amongst moderators on issues pertaining to their teams. I can watch the English shows, and see heavy debate amongst moderators pertaining to their teams. That is the case because people (like you and I) can actually disagree. The fact that I am not seeing any debate here, is troubling in and of itself. Because it is not rational that everyone is in agreement on this, if they are allowed to express independent opinions. That simply isn't the way human minds work. I know that your confirmation bias (and I don't mean that in a terrible way … again, it is the way the human mind works) steers you to believe that this type of article is vindication. But really think about how unbelievable it would be for 99% of people to agree on what is, at best, a 50/50 proposition (and it is much less than that because we see the player excelling at the position he WILL NOT be playing). That's what is happening in US soccer media now. Logically, it does not make sense that there is not more disagreement about this issue in media circles, like there would be in any country with a true soccer media.
     
    bsky22, schrutebuck, Excellency and 3 others repped this.
  3. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In was going to suggest this very thing. He's also part of the old boys network on the Bradley tree side and has both coached and assisted Adams. I also don't think Adams will be bad at that role but my debate is whether it helps the team more to have Adams play right back when right back is one of the spots the US has the most competition without having a midfielder play there. Why not Adams play in the Bradley / Trap role and have K Acosta play the same role on the left that Adams was to play? Why not have either right or left back tuck in depending on the situation? I have a hunch whatever this is is just a short term wrinkle and so many kids are exploding onto the scene that in a year or two it will all be different anyway.
     
  4. Woodrow

    Woodrow Member+

    Dec 7, 2001
    Brick City
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Why not try Mckennie at that position since he's actually been playing there a lot anyway?
     
  5. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I actually think Adams would be a better right back since he's quicker and faster like I think McKennie is better near the box because he gets all the headers. They both have some similarities in they go hard and have foot skills but also clear differences. They also seem to be team guys so should fit together well.
     
  6. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    FTA:


    That right back-turned-center mid has the most freedom and responsibility. He’s responsible for reading the game and providing the overloads, the key moments to either get out of trouble or cause trouble. To use Berhalter’s words, as mentioned in Doug McIntyre’s story for Yahoo!:

    “We want to use him as a right back that comes inside and stays wide,” Berhalter said. “We think there’s advantages to gain in wide areas of the field, and we think he can do it. We’ve seen him pulling away in central midfield sometimes with Red Bull and getting on the ball and being able to penetrate.

    He’s not going to be in the back,” the coach continued. “He’s going to be forward, at the top of the penalty box, or he’s going to be combining in the wide areas, and that’s right in his skill set."

    The idea that moving Adams to right back hinders him in some way is wrong (at least philosophically). It’s the opposite; it provides him the most freedom to impact the game in the most ways. If the defensive midfielder needs help in possession, Adams can move inside next to him; if the wing needs an option to create a numerical advantage, Adams can split wide; if there’s a cross coming into the box, Adams can make a late run.

    Yes, Adams could be used as the controlling player to start the possession. Yes, he could be used higher on the field to play around the box. The hybrid right back spot allows him to do both. Berhalter is trying to unleash Adams, not hinder him.

    It might not the be long-term answer, but it’s absolutely worth trying.


    It sounds like GB loves Tyler and is building a system around him, what an honor for a 20 year old.
     
    RalleeMonkey and Pragidealist repped this.
  7. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    This is well put. It is strange that something is 80-20 against here and 95-5 for in the media. I can think of some of topics that have fallen the same way and BS has generally been proven right. Won't name them to avoid all the tangents.

    GB has correctly identified our seven best European based players at the moment. But he has devised a system that plays three of them out of their club position. Seeing as two are CBs and one a GK, that is 75% of the remaining four in unfamiliar positions.

    Shouldn't that strike someone as strange?
     
    bsky22, btlove and yurch10 repped this.
  8. Marrked

    Marrked Member

    Nov 22, 2016
    The point is to have a guy that can spray balls from deep out to the wingers. This is what Bradley/Trapp specialize in. Having Adams tuck in on possession relieves some pressure off the deep lying guy as well. Neither Mckennie nor Adams specialize in this. And the formation allows all our best center mids to be on the field.

    Too many people freaking out over this. Playing this formation neutralizes many of the chronic issues the USMNT has had for the past couple of cycles. It lessens the need of a true LB by having this guy play almost as a left CB, and it packs the midfield to aid in possession. The biggest question for this camp should be our attackers, because they are all MLS guys with the addition of Yedlin on the wing.

    edit: clarification
     
  9. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    RBL loves TA and has put him at CM, the position that he has the greatest comfort, experience and 2 way impact. He can and does do all the things that Warshaw outlined at NYRB and at RBL starting from his CM slot with the added benefit that he does not have to spend his focus primarily worrying about tracking and containing speedy attacking left sided players which is what a RB will have to do.
     
    bsky22 and Woodrow repped this.
  10. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  11. harttbeat

    harttbeat Member

    Dec 29, 1998
    New York
    I don't agree with the move. Hes been in winning team both in MLS and Germany playing center mid role. It's like putting kante and playing him in right back. Thats why we get laugh at. GB mentioned hes great at reading the game so isn't what a #6 does ?
     
    Gacm32 repped this.
  12. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    How many long passes have to sprayed around to qualify as successful?

    Pragidealist thinks they’ll have 8 per game while in the last two they had around 2.
     
  13. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm formation agnostic. I am not advocating the position, just sharing more from the article.

    Hopefully GB isn't married to any tactic or formation.
     
    TheHoustonHoyaFan and Pragidealist repped this.
  14. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    It ain't about long diagonals.

    Listen, you have two below average MFs in MLS (MB/WT) who, for some reason, must be in the team (I'm now on the conspiracy wagon, but if you're not, we can at least agree they are each going to play one game). The last four years, it was easy to argue, as MB was "good" in MLS, was captain, had "experience", and there were few other options (none were tried, but I digress).

    Now, the excuses have run dry. MB/WT ain't good, and we have midfielders moving to become legitimate stars in the Bundesliga, playing MB/WT positions.

    What else can be done? Find the one skill that still may apply, and convince the sheep this is required. Never mind the fact that MB/WT will be, by far, the worst player in a US shirt. They can hit long diagonals, TA can't? Ok, let's run with that.

    This simply isn't about tactics. Any coach would tell you to identify your best players (TA is top 3 at this point), and put them in the position where they can make the most impact (CM). They aren't doing this, simply so the can accommodate MB/WT. We are moving our current best player from his best position, so that we may keep a player on the field who will be our worst player. Let that sink in!

    We've seen this show for 4-5 years now with MB, it's just been easier to hide. Not sure why anyone is surprised by this.
     
    bsky22, majspike and harttbeat repped this.
  15. harttbeat

    harttbeat Member

    Dec 29, 1998
    New York
    yup, the sad thing is GB had this plan all along and probably introduced this to US federation during the interview process. I am sure everyone went along. So GB definitely have backing from up top for this move.

    I see this in real life situation where ppl have no talent at what they do but they still get to keep their job/job title. Meanwhile, the other ppl gets sick and tired of the company and leave. I hope TA dont get sick and tired. Of course hes going to say he will want to help the team win and will play where ever. Deep down inside, dont you think he's little sick of this ? You tell me.
     
  16. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    Brooks hits nice longer passes. I could see the advantage of having a midfielder do it if that midfielder could do so under pressure to launch attacks quickly from the back. But, my eyes only see those types of passes launched after we've taken a couple touches to setup and the deep midfielder gets to look up without much pressure. Then, they hit those longer balls. Under no pressure after some time to set, Brooks can hit those all day. I always thought Klinsmann was correct when he talked about wanting Bradley to move a bit more forward to give us more options to receive passes.
     
    bsky22 repped this.
  17. Woodrow

    Woodrow Member+

    Dec 7, 2001
    Brick City
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    I would add that he doesn't have the added burden of covering even more ground. Tyler is being asked to run a race where he starts an additional 20 yards back from the pack, or more to the point he has to run an additional 20 yards on every lap. In Berhalter's defensive scheme the backline doesn't get as far up field, which means Tyler will have even more ground to cover. And, I love the quote from Warshaw about "expected goals," which at a minimum suggests that Columbus gave up too many unexpected goals. When faced with a team that varies the attack and seeks to break defensive lines through bypassing focal points, that's when you need a rangy defensive midfielder. I would also add that some of the pressure-breaking dribble moves that are becoming more of a feature in Tyler's game are not something a right back should be trying very often. The part of his development on the attacking end that is the most exciting to see is also the part that is going to be taking him upfield. That's going to leave a big hole on the defensive line, which needs to be plugged by someone, Trapp, Bradley, Yedlin (?). Ironically the best player to plug that hole is Tyler Adams, making the hole exercise a little pointless.

    Whenever someone would say to me (often condescendingly), "Just wait and see, this will be great for you," I have to question who's interests they're really serving. In my experience, that person is usually putting their own interests ahead of yours. While self-interest is not a surprising trait in the ambitious, but when it comes cloaked as benevolence, it is also particularly insidious. Those folks rarely have your best interests at heart.
     
    bsky22, btlove and TheHoustonHoyaFan repped this.
  18. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    The right center back will be important as it will be their responsibility to cover wide while Adams is in the middle. Hopefully our cadre of tall and not particularly agile center backs are good sliding out wide to cover fast wingers.
     
    Maitreya repped this.
  19. btlove

    btlove Member

    United States
    Sep 29, 2017
    Austin Texas
    Jesus Christ you are quite full of yourself. Your argument is basically.

    “I’m an intellectual that likes tactics and people that agree with me are also intellectuals that like tactics. People that disagree with me are using emotion and not logic.”

    Just because you say something makes sense logically doesn’t mean it’s true. Despite what you may think you are not the smartest guy in the room and other people are capable of applying logic. For example:

    There is no logical reason Tyler Adams should be moved from his natural position at CM. I have noticed that people that use logic reach this conclusion. But people who have an emotional attachment to MB think differently. Guess my fellow genius tacticians think TA should be playing CM!
     
    bsky22 and TheHoustonHoyaFan repped this.
  20. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    Absolutely! Glad we can find agreement!
     
  21. btlove

    btlove Member

    United States
    Sep 29, 2017
    Austin Texas
    It’s okay I’m full of myself to. Just try to consider that the person you are arguing with is also capable of applying logic.

    Also find it interesting that we have a top 10 CM in the bundesliga that I think we should start as a CM on the USMNT, and that is considered the “emotional” argument and not the “logical” one.
     
    Gacm32 and yurch10 repped this.
  22. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    Both CAN be logical arguments. The one most commonly displayed on BS has been an emotional one.

    To be clear - I crave logical challenges and debates. I only get frustrated when I can’t find any. You can’t debate against emotional Bias well
     
  23. Maitreya

    Maitreya Member+

    Apr 30, 2007
    Providence, RI
    Totally agree here. I am definitely concerned about the range and emergency defending ability of the RCB options right now for this system.
     
  24. Maitreya

    Maitreya Member+

    Apr 30, 2007
    Providence, RI
    If Adams is playing the 6, he won't be able to get into the attack as much as he theoretically will at the right back hybrid role. If this system maximizes Adams' talents, it will be because he needs to be able to get into the attack all game long and not just as a late sub to an 8/10 role because he has such tremendous endurance/fitness. The question is whether Adams is skilled enough to be a major asset on attacking forays all game long, or only later in matches when normal dudes are tired and he isn't.
     
    Pragidealist repped this.
  25. btlove

    btlove Member

    United States
    Sep 29, 2017
    Austin Texas
    I guess so. People are pissed at us repeating our sins from a missed World Cup. But I have seen plenty of logical arguments. All of them have already been covered.
     

Share This Page