Finishing that particular analysis off now.... 2014/15 Top Assisters Cesc Fabregas (18) - 6.46 (14th) Santi Cazorla (11) - 6.31 (39th) Gylfi Sigurdsson (10) - 6.41 (23rd) Angel Di Maria (10) - 6.06 (109th) Chris Brunt (10) - 5.95 (153rd) 2015/16 Top Assisters Mesut Ozil (19) - 6.63 (7th) Christian Eriksen (13) - 6.45 (21st) Dimitri Payet (12) - 6.92 (3rd) Dusan Tadic (12) - 6.48 (17th) 2016/17 Top Assisters Kevin De Bruyne (18) - 6.54 (17th) Christian Eriksen (15) - 6.55 (15th) Gylfi Sigurdsson (13) - 6.48 (21st) Cesc Fabregas (12) - 6.60 (making top 12 if had been listed, but only 17 games) 2017/18 Top Assisters Kevin De Bruyne (16) - 7.22 (1st) Leroy Sane (15) - 6.84 (4th) David Silva (11) - 7.04 (2nd) Raheem Sterling (11) - 6.76 (5th)
Sorry that I missed this question. It depends on what you see as Bale his best so far. That is 2012-13 probably, plus possibly his first season in Madrid and maybe euro 2016 (although I personally don't think he was at his best there). Blokhin his profile is defined by both his peak (was the 2nd youngest Ballon d'Or winner at the time, demolished world class defenses on his own) and his longevity, with being good/great until the age of 34. He had some low periods (the 2nd half of the 1970s, as wm442433 says in his profile) but his overall longevity is okay. I'm inclined he was a bit more skilled yes, in the way he played more centrally in more crowded spaces (akin to Ribery, Robben) and did his damage against teams as Bayern and England. One might argue the (powerful?) Soviets turned Blokhin in Ivan Drago of the Rocky movies, but he was still a fine player without his pace and imposing physique (see 1986CWC and almost EC topscorer in 1986-87). Ironically, Bale at his very beast was leaning more on his stamina and relentless thrust than the accuracy of his actions (therefore his passing is not close to the level of other elite wingers of his time, nor was his shooting).
Adding some older Serie A ratings now available (without adjusting anything - so it's just the ratings as they were given at the time and they won't necessarily be comparable to later years)…. 1954/55 - 1) Armando Segato (8.11 - hard to know if this should be trusted of course, especially without further research into his season with Fiorentina), 2) Ezio Bardelli (6.87), 3) Angelo Franzosi (6.84) (Other famous names in the top 20 - Karl Aage Hansen, Nils Liedholm, Francesco Rosetta, Gunnar Gren, Juan Schiaffino) 1956/57 - 1 ) Bengt Lindskog (8.69!), 2) Nils Liedholm (7.24), 3) Julinho (6.94) (Other famous names in the top 20 - Juan Schiaffino, Antoine Bonifaci) 1959/60 - 1) Lorenzo Buffon (7.18), 2) John Charles (6.98), 3) Kurt Hamrin (6.97) (Other famous names in the top 20 - Nils Liedholm, Omar Sivori, Bengt Lindskog) 1960/61 - 1) Lorenzo Buffon (6.96), 2) Francisco Lojacono (6.77), 3) John Charles (6.75) (Other famous names in the top 20 - Fabio Cudicini, Bengt Lindskog, Giampiero Boniperti, Mario Corso, Ernst Ocwirk)
Having previously posted this list of top 3 ratings in Serie A for the period leading up to 77/78 too "1970/71 - 1) Antonio Juliano (Napoli/Italy), 2= Karl-Heinz Schnellinger (AC Milan/W.Germany), 2= Giancarlo De Sisti (Fiorentina/Italy) 1971/72 - no ratings 1972/73 - 1) Gianni Rivera (AC Milan/Italy), 2) Giussepe Wilson (Lazio/Italy), 3) Enrico Albertosi (Calgiari/Italy) 1973/74 - 1) Dino Zoff (Juventus/Italy), 2) Giovanni Pirazzini (Foggia/Italy), 3) Antonio Juliano (Napoli/Italy) 1974/75 - 1) Franco Cordova (Roma/Italy), 2) Francesco Rocca (Roma/Italy), 3) William Vecchi (Cagliari/Italy) 1975/76 - 1) Claudio Sala (Torino/Italy), 2) Eraldo Pecchi (Torino/Italy), 3) Enrico Albertosi (AC Milan/Italy) 1976/77 - 1) Claudio Sala (Torino/Italy), 2) Renato Zaccarelli (Torino/Italy), 3) Giovanni Pirazzini (Foggia/Italy)" I can fill in the gap: 1971/72 - 1) Dino Zoff (Napoli/Italy), 2) Giancarlo De Sisti (Fiorentina/Italy), 3) Enrico Albertosi (Cagliari/Italy)
Doing a fuller top 20 analysis with ratings for the top 3 again (again just straight ratings without any adjusted figure added), for the Serie A seasons 67/68, 68/69, and 69/70: 1967/68 - 1) Nene (Cagliari/Brazil) (6.82), 2) Giambattista Moschino (Torino/Italy) (6.76), 3) Aldo Agroppi (Torino/Italy) (6.75) (Other famous names in the top 20 - Sandro Mazzola, Giancarlo Bercellino, Gianni Rivera, Armando Picchi, Giancarlo De Sisti, Pietro Anastasi, Fabio Cudicini, Tarcisio Burgnich) 1968/69 - 1) Franco Superchi (Fiorentina/Italy) (7.03), 2) Antonio Juliano (Napoli/Italy) (6.95), 3) Sergio Santarini (Roma/Italy) (6.86) (Other famous names in the top 20 - Giancarlo De Sisti, Dino Zoff, Fabio Cudicini, Enrico Albertosi, Luigi Riva, Luis Suarez Miramontes) 1969/70 - 1) Luigi Riva (Cagliari/Italy) (7.04), 2) Giussepe Wilson (Lazio/Italy) (6.98), 3) Enrico Albertosi (Cagliari/Italy) (6.89) (Other famous names in the top 20 - Dino Zoff, Antonio Juliano, Fabio Capello, Angelo Domenghini, Nene)
This, for DBS Calcio ratings in the Premier League since 1994/95 (adjusted/normalised to reflect the general trends for level of ratings within each season)…. "Top 20 adjusted ratings for Premier League excluding the first two seasons (50% rated games required) 1 - Luis Suarez (Liverpool/Uruguay) - 2013/14 - 7.21 2 - Cesc Fabregas (Arsenal/Spain) - 2009/10 - 7.20 3 - Kevin De Bruyne (Manchester City/Belgium) - 2017/18 - 7.19 4= Steven Gerrard (Liverpool/England) - 2005/06 - 7.12 4= Frank Lampard (Chelsea/England) - 2009/10 - 7.12 6= Juan Mata (Chelsea/Spain) - 2012/13 - 7.08 6= Jamie Vardy (Leicester/England) - 2015/16 - 7.08 8 - Cristiano Ronaldo (Manchester United/Portugal) - 2006/07 - 7.06 9= Keith Gillespie (Newcastle/Northern Ireland) - 1997/98 - 7.04 9= Robert Pires (Arsenal/France) - 2001/02 - 7.04 9= Wayne Rooney (Manchester United/England) - 2009/10 - 7.04 12= Steven Gerrard (Liverpool/England) - 2003/04 - 7.02 12= Yohann Cabaye (Newcastle/France) - 2013/14 - 7.02 14 - David Silva (Manchester City/Spain) - 2017/18 - 7.01 15= Patrick Vieira (Arsenal/France) - 2002/03 - 7.00 15= Eden Hazard (Chelsea/Belgium) - 2016/17 - 7.00 17= Steven Gerrard (Liverpool/England) - 2008/09 - 6.99 17= Didier Drogba (Chelsea/Ivory Coast) - 2009/10 - 6.99 19= Dennis Bergkamp (Arsenal/Netherlands) - 1997/98 - 6.97 19= Riyad Mahrez (Leicester/Algeria) - 2015/16 - 6.97" has a new entry in joint 17th (meaning Bergkamp/Mahrez become joint 20th I suppose) - Virgil van Dijk for 2018/19. His outright average rating was 7.01 so that's good enough for 10th in this list (to re-iterate what's been said before the excluded outlier seasons are where the ratings were much higher at the top end in general so incomparable in literal terms, but several players from those seasons appear in the 'adjusted' version anyway) - the joint 20th players now drop out of that one when Van Dijk slots in: Top 20 actual ratings for the Premier League excluding the first two seasons and the two outliers (2009/10 and 2013/14) (60% rated games required) 1 - Kevin De Bruyne (Manchester City/Belgium) - 2017/18 - 7.22 2= Steven Gerrard (Liverpool/England) - 2005/06 - 7.09 2= Cristiano Ronaldo (Manchester United/Portugal) - 2006/07 - 7.09 2= Juan Mata (Chelsea/Spain) - 2012/13 - 7.09 5 - Steven Gerrard (Liverpool/England) - 2003/04 - 7.06 6 - Robert Pires (Arsenal/France) - 2001/02 - 7.05 7= Steven Gerrard (Liverpool/England) - 2008/09 - 7.04 7= David Silva (Manchester City/Spain) - 2017/18 - 7.04 9 - Jamie Vardy (Leicester/England) - 2015/16 - 7.03 10 - Eden Hazard (Chelsea/Belgium) - 2016/17 - 7.00 11= Patrick Vieira (Arsenal/France) - 2002/03 - 6.97 11= Mo Salah (Liverpool/Egypt) - 2017/18 - 6.97 13 - Luis Suarez (Liverpool/Uruguay) - 2012/13 - 6.96 14= Thierry Henry (Arsenal/France) - 2003/04 - 6.95 14= Cristiano Ronaldo (Manchester United/Portugal) - 2007/08 - 6.95 14= Sergio Aguero (Manchester City/Argentina) - 2011/12 - 6.95 17= Dennis Bergkamp (Arsenal/Netherlands) - 1997/98 - 6.94 17= Wayne Rooney (Manchester United/England) - 2007/08 - 6.94 19 - Thomas Gravesen (Everton/Denmark) - 2004/05 - 6.93 20= Sasa Curcic (Bolton/Yugoslavia) - 1995/96 - 6.92 20= Mikel Arteta (Everton/Spain) - 2006/07 - 6.92 I have a feeling I'd probably include both Van Dijk's season, and Hazard's (even though he's 6th rated according to DBS Calcio, and even though he already has other seasons in my suggested list), in my own estimated idea of a top 50 PL seasons.
I calculated the average of the combination of players rated 1st, 2nd, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, 19th and 20th for each season. I then calculated the average of those averages, and for adjusted results the actual rating is moved up or down by the same amount the 'seasons average' is above/below the average seasonal average! The FA Cup Final is on now to distract me too of course, so..... .....I feel like that's not simple to follow lol, but I hope you can understand what I mean even if it takes a few minutes! It's just an attempt to balance out the trends for ratings to go up or down in general (which can be caused by different sources being used, different journalists, gradual changes in how ratings get allocated or whatever), so that maybe it's more reasonable to compare the ratings over the whole period. It's definitely not a perfect method though, and in some cases the actual ratings might reflect things better still (but clearly in some years ratings were much higher, and surely not because the journalists felt the performances were so much better than prior, and surrounding, years, to such a massive extent).
So the average (based on players rated 1-2-9-10-11-12-19-20) for 2017/18 for example is 0.03 higher than the 'average average'. The average for 2005/06 was 0.03 lower on the other hand. It's a hard call to try to say that the 'standards' for ratings changed by that much, or that they remained constant. But looking at the actual average ratings of De Bruyne vs Gerrard for those seasons, can be complimented by looking at the adjusted calculations, so that then there is an idea about which actual rating might (might) have been on the generous side. Obviously if a lot of players consistently play great in particular seasons then they could be getting under-valued by the adjusted method, but if the standards/methods for rating have changed somewhat over time then those players rated on the harsher basis would be under-valued just purely comparing the actual ratings. Re: FA Cup - it seems Watford have started better and more in the attacking third than might have been expected!
This post kind of illustrates the big differences that can occur, for whatever reason (actual average ratings first numbers in brackets, followed by adjusted ratings in bold). It also shows that for the actual average ratings Van Dijk is still, with his 7.01 of 2018/19, very marginally behind Ashley Cole's 2009/10 number (but with an adjusted figure well ahead of course) so not quite literally the top rated defender over a season in this period since 1994/95 in the Premier League!
from the daily mail top 50 players ever thread I think that Baggio (9th) has had short peaks during what would be his "peak". Same could go for Zico in some maneer (though it's Barzailian Serie A) who is 17th, alongside Best. Not sure if there's really a peak in Beckenbauer's career. Surely there was a couple of years wich were less good though. Same with Modric.
Yeah, I'm not 100% sure how 'highest peaks' is being seen, but it can perhaps be more like "how good were these players in their best games?" or "how good were these players during their best runs of form?" rather than "how good were these players best seasons?" or "how good were these players over their peak period/s in their entirety?". That would be as far on the ultra short-term end of the scale as possible, but (although I don't say I'd make the same choices and I guess a lot of us would still think Baggio was high and Beckenbauer over Cruyff was wrong etc) maybe the placings make most sense if that was the case.
@PDG1978 It's confirmed Eden hazard has left chelsea and thus the premier league I don't have the stats to confirm what I'm about to say but believe since his debut in the premier league no one has created more chances or completed more dribbles than Eden hazard I think he is only one of few technical geniuses in the premier league (the other being David Silva and KDB) On the goal front he has been reasonably good (just under 1 in 3 with a great deal of penalties) I think from an objective perspective he can be compared to Eric Cantona not in terms of impact but end product and stats (Both struggled in the champions league too) Eric obviously wins on the trophy front but he was only truly the deciding factor in 2 league titles (93/94 and his legendary comeback in 95/96) Is his peak higher than hazard and where does the belgian rank in terms of the greatest premier league foreign exports?
I think Cantona was better technically, but Hazard obviously quicker and more mobile. Cantona with better vision, influence and the ability to be clutch, but Hazard harder to track and more able to create things with dribbling runs. If we go short-term I'd probably still lean towards Cantona myself, but it's more doubtful weighing up their long-term contributions in the PL. I think Hazard trying to directly replace Cantona in 93/94 (and he could play a supporting role behind Hughes I guess, with Kanchelskis and Giggs wider) would theoretically not do a better job. But Cantona trying to slot into Conte's 3-4-2-1 in a semi-wide role would be less useful than Hazard I'd think certainly. We'll never know how Cantona might have played in the 1994 World Cup (they got knocked out by Bulgaria but I've said before Cantona actually had a good game in the decisive tie - it doesn't always come down to how the star individuals played - it is a team game of course). Hazard has had a few chances to get used to International tournaments but obviously was a star in the last World Cup.
I think you meant Premier League imports Carlito? It is always hard to know how much to weight peak vs longevity anyway, but giving at least some credit for multiple great seasons, Hazard'd be up towards the top end surely now wouldn't he, and probably not so far away on peak anyway? I'd still tend to say the best foreign Premier League player would be Henry or Bergkamp. Two other Arsenal players wouldn't be so far away for me either - Vieira (especially on longevity) and Pires (especially on peak).
I had a feeling youd say this but maybe this is up for a debate leading in chances created over such an extended period goes along way in suggesting hazard was at least more than a average passer (a world class one perhaps) 2017/18 Cantona could ping them long balls from pretty much anywhere in the opposition half but he did that a lot less than his 5min assist/passing highlight reel suggests (there is talk about this over on CAF and even pes stats database- re his playmaking being a bit overstated)
Hmm, I have a feeling modern 'highlight reels' will give a better impression (the uploaders really have access to pretty much all footage to use now) so probably Hazard's vision etc will be more over-stated in his than Cantona's in his if you know what I mean. I'm not sure we have any chances created stats from early PL years do we but assist stats themselves do favour Cantona as best chance creator of that era. He was more consistent as an assister than Hazard (who really broke out in that respect this season), and Hazard relied more on taking players on and cutting the ball back etc I suppose (due to being more capable in that way). So, no, even trying to remove any nostalgia lol, I'd not think of Hazard as Cantona's equal in vision and general creative impact. I'm not sure I know what CAF is actually (maybe I do but forget). Older posters on Red Café or whatever the Man Utd forum is might be the best to comment (although then it's true there would not only be nostalgia but pro-United bias that could be a factor I suppose if being fair!).
I think it all boils down to just three players ( my opinion )... Zidane ... Messi and Maradona .. I’d go with Zidane but I understand so many go for one of the other two. Thing about Messi is ... although he gets more protection than Diego ever got ....... Messi is playing in the modern times where the game is soooo much faster , the midfielders and defenders he’s against are also supreme athletes...
By caf I meant red cafe of course I'm not too sure Cantona would come out looking favourably against hazard in the assist stakes(in the PL yes but not if we account European competitions and cup games) Fortunately we have accurate assist stats for every single player that played in the fergie era(courtesy of red cafe and this is a authoritative source which tonnes of research put in) http://www.redcafe.net/threads/manchester-united-goals-and-assists-1987-88-today.396084/ There are some defence splitting passes and long balls I've seen Cantona pull of that hazard couldn't do There is also an exquisite outside of the foot pass to Denis irwin from 92/93 if im not mistaken Id think hazard could have an advantage in short passing and a bigger one in creating chances through his dribbling (maybe the best ever in the PL in this type of play making) Cantona could have an advantage in medium range to long passing (crossing too perhaps) Technically overall I'd agree he is better (in pretty much everything except dribbling) Thing is hazard is such a specialist at dribbling and Cantona wasn't really at anything (even if he could do most things he was never really the best at a single thing) I don't think Cantona ever missed a penalty but even then hazard has been a pretty accurate spot kick taker too Cantonas on field impact can be overstated he joined an already fantastic team who'd come close to clinching the title just before he came He was the final piece I think 95/96 can be credited to him as his league title (without his run at the tail end of the season United would've not won) In 93/94 he was a better and more productive player but giggs was also pretty grand too maybe even the best winger in the world
I think Cantona was overall better in 93/94 than 95/96, but extremely clutch with game-winning goals in 95/96. Giggs for me was better in 93/94 too, but also very good still in 95/96, like Cantona probably moreso in the second half of the season I think.
Since we've been talking about Hazard I'll add 2018/19 to this PL assists vs DBS Calcio rating (and overall DBS Calcio placing in brackets) analysis (previously I'd given a mid-season update for this season but obviously things changed slightly by the end) - previous seasons posted on previous pages just to clarify again (with Cantona indeed featuring multiple times in early years but yes Carlito his assist stats, in contrast to Giggs' don't seem enhanced so much on average or rate per game when factoring in all competitions): 2018/19 Top Assisters Eden Hazard (15) - 6.74 (6th) Ryan Fraser (14) - 6.30 (45th) Trent Alexander-Arnold (12) - 6.55 (14th) Cristian Eriksen (12) - 6.37 (34th)
Interestingly Eriksen has been largely anonymous for a season or two .. people talk about Son , Kane when he’s not injured or Dele Alli . Hazard also went missing ( along with half the team ) for practically the whole season when they got Jose sacked ... the season before he’d been largely unplayable..
I don't think 2018/19 was Eriksen's best season (the DBS Calcio ratings also agree with that). I suppose assists quantity and quality don't always match, and sometimes an assist is fairly basic and the goalscorer either scores a wonder goal or was free in a great position before the pass. But Eriksen is always a player that can come up with clever, incisive and accurate passes even when not playing great in general, and I'd say he plays in an 'unselfish' way too mostly.
Well he said a few days ago that he’s ready for a new challenge .. many of the Spurs fans don’t even care if he goes .. both tell a story I guess