Question: how many people think WT/MB are better than TA and WM as an anchor? Let’s use the hypothetical where a team only had a spot available at the 6 and had all four players available and none of them would play at any other position.
Oh, I’ll play. Why not? But I’ll say first that it’s a BS question (both senses of BS) because it depends on the team around them, the general tactics, what you want from a 6, and so on. (And the ability to play more than one spot is a huge consideration on a WC Cup squad, but your thought experiment removed it.) So, because I know NONE of those things, I’m likely going to air on the side of caution. I take Bradley. I go with experience, better positional sense, technical ability, better sense of the game, better passing. At least the best available combination of all those things. If there is a world where the answers don’t matter, or we’re going to mold the tactics around the ability of the 6 or if it’s just about pure upside. I take Adams Funny thing is I don’t think either choice is hard...
Thanks. Let's assume that we're using GB's system. Maybe we can say that the Crew are able to bring in any of MB / TA / WM to replace WT (i'm making the assumption that the Crew use the "anchor" as deep-lying six playmaker). Whom would they pick if at all? To be clear you think that MB has better positional sense better technical ability better passing better sense of the game than each of TA, WM and WT?
I do, but it is largely a function of age and experience. Bradley has legitimate flaws, but he also has legitimate skills that his detractors pretend don’t exist. (Side note: during broadcast somemone said that GB stated that Bradley had the best technical skills in camp.) For example, he is able to assume the role that Sarachan and Arena asked of him to slide back between the CB, pushing them wider and allowing the full backs to push up the field. I can’t imagine the other three doing that. (You would only ask Trapp to do that if you owed money to gamblers.) Trapp is probably equal (or nearly so) as a distributor. mcKennie and Adams are clearly better athletes and may ultimately be superior technically- but that’s not a given. Bradley was raised in Europe [EDIT: I mean as a professional from a young age] and played in one of the most technical leagues (Italy). He’s no slouch. By the way, all four are really good players. We need to get beyond the ‘my guy’s good therefore you’re guy is trash’ argument’s on BS. They’re wrong and obscure the real decisions that coaches have to make. As to your clarification about making the choice in GB’s system... I’ll go with Adams. Bradley, as he showed against Panama for anyone who cared to look, can close and press (although he doesn’t particularly try to win the ball), but Adams can do it more, over more ground, faster. I think in GB’s system, he can also stay on the ball longer.
FWIW, I disagree wrt to TA and WM on points 2, 3 and 4 and that's not to trash MB but to say that these young guys are equally good. However, I do think that WT and MB are "trash" in ball-winning and that is vitally important vs. good teams, particularly given our CB pool's relative talents. I say this as someone who has admired MB for a while and was supportive of his move back to MLS where he could learn to be "the man": if MB has the best technical skills in a camp, we should not be trying to play a possession game with that squad.
You get the experience in "international games" by first demonstrating in camp that you are at the top of the USMNT heap and worthy of real game time, as judged by the coaches. Next, the coaches put you in games, either as starter or sub. There, you prove that you should get more time in more games. That's how it works. The process ALWAYS starts with assessments that we, the fans, do not see--how the player does in camp compared to the others in the same boat, i.e., those vying for positions on the team. The coach does not select players for games in order for the fans to provide him with advice on who shouldn't have been selected or who should be in the future.
Or you could have passed it off as a contemporary/friend posting on his own Twitter account and just ignored it. Instead like a child you make up declarations that it was staged. Stop making things up. But I am interested in your playing career and knowledge on how national team players prep and prepare for matches. Oh wait you're making things up again...
Being fast is not an attribute that overrides needing all sorts of skill to take advantage of that speed but are you saying that speed and especially killer speed doesn't separate good players from great players? In my opinion neither Christiano Ronaldo or Messi would be anywhere near the players they are without their speed. Quickness may be more important but speed is very important.
We really need to get off this Bradley/Trapp/Canouse/Adams tangent. It's ridiculous. Why? Simply because January camp is in a vacuum. Not even all MLS players were available! Any discussion about further call-ups should be labeled as fanciful and should not be taken as anything else. Instead, let's highlight the real star of this camp and the one guy who is guaranteed a spot in the next call-up, Berhalter, his staff and their procedures. There have been a number of pitfalls that coaches can fall in to when they make their first foray in to the international game. Does he know how to select players? Does he know how to organize his system and camp so as to transmit enough information to get said players to play coherently? Berhalter has done both things exceptionally well and he has not played it safe at any juncture. The player selections were incredibly brave. He would have been crucified if this team played badly. Not one single player player below expectations. A few played well above. The team was at all times coherent. The only way to categorize this debut is as a complete, unmitigated success. From here we might speculate what Berhalter will do and what players he might call in but he has shown so much in this camp that we really have no idea which way he will go. For my part, I think that we should all put away our litmus tests and just pay attention to what he is trying to accomplish. He has earned that much.
Reasoned disagreement. Maybe we’ll start a trend? Agree that WT and MB are not ball winners and for the most part don’t try to be. It is only one of the skills you want out of a 6, however. More to the point, our CB quality may be exactly why we DON’T want a ball winning 6. Ball winning involves risk; if you fail, the guy usually gets behind you and the CBs are forced into 1v1 defending in many instances. Containing the attack to let the defense set and forcing the attack wide especially when we have a height advantage at CB may be the wiser choice. Anyway - thanks for the conversation. Off to work now...
I've enjoyed our reasonable disagreement as well. I have my doubts on the trend part, however. The concept that WT/MB excel at positional defense rings hollow to me. I think that is certainly their style of defense but I think that they're not great at it vs. elite attacking teams, particularly when teams are counter-attacking at us. Smart teams have and will force them to win balls as players take them on directly and now we're SOL. Furthermore, if we asked TA or WM to play purely positionally and do what you want MB/WT to do, they'd excel as they're both faster and loose hipped and have an excellent understanding of the game (they couldn't play in the center of the field in the B1 unless they were quite good at this - it's absolutely required). They also have the benefit of winning balls when required to (which a 6 has to be able to do).
There may be one guy in recent times who has had a better record that MB when it comes to not losing the ball. Nagbe has been fantastic with his passing completion stats, but he has the penchant for holding it so long that he eventually coughs it up. MB has been consistently at the top of the ball control stats for a long while and should have been at the heart of a US possession game. Unfortunately, guys at the level of Donovan, Beasley, Reyna, O'Brien have not been around a lot of the time and the team has often not particularly benefited from his do-not-lose-the-ball skill. All 4 of those guys were really good at evading a tackle and making 1 touch pass exchanges in tight spaces at all levels of the game. MB is at the same level in that skill and better than anyone in the squad for these last two games.
Not to nitpick but I think that CR and JOB were far above DMB and MB in both possession and distribution. I'm still shellshocked at the injury Capt. America sustained when he received the ball in our third vs. [Ghana]..... My comment that you bolded was not to say that MB has no technical skills but rather that's the skill level required for all 11 players on the field if you want to play possession rather than the skill level of the top player. I can see how it came across differently.
Greg on Scuffed made an excellent point. The US teams over the past 8 years have not had any tactical consistency. When they are on the road in CONCACAF, with the horrible officiating, hostile crowds, bad fields, terrible accommodations, and they are trying to figure out the tactics on the fly, it is very hard. Plus, when you change the game plan constantly, you have no basis for small adjustments like before the 2nd half against CR Saturday. Australia with FIFA refs and a competent coach, had zero problem in Honduras. But even beyond all that, the reaction of Pulisic's team mates in the home game against CR to the dirty play was disappointing to say the least. It set up that tactic as game plan A for every team. I don't think McKennie and Adams will react as passively as Nagbe and Bradley.
Plus if you're going to stage something I think they could do better than a picture on Holden's twitter. Call me crazy but I'm going to view this whole "incident" as a case of Holden...not hating Michael Bradley. Shocking! Obviously it's buckets of SUM cash behind such a dastardly view.
Agree with Tony that the parameters for the question make it meaningless. Who is the opponent and what are the tactics? Against opponents where we are likely to play something resembling what we saw the last two matches, I will take either MB or WT as the 6. Again, assuming a 3 man CM triangle with a 6 and dual 8/10s in front. I want McKennie and Adams further up the field. I think both could turn into more than just 6's. McKennie I want in the Roldan spot. I am not sure he has the passing chops yet to be in the slightly more advanced spot Mihailovic/Lletget played. Though I wouldn't mind looking at him there, especially if Pulisic is wide (Baird's spot). Baird's spot has a lot of defensive responsibilities with Lima playing as he did (CM in possession or recovery/RB in defense). Taxing for Pulisic so maybe he takes the other 8/10 spot which stays high in the 4222 press. I am not sure the Adams/McKennie pairing as dual 8/10s passes well enough for 3Gs liking. Not yet at least. Though vs a superior opponent where we do not see the ball much I can see it. And I am sure we will see it regardless, you have to have a look. Helps we do not have a real established central playmaker. If Berhalter wants Pulisic inside, then McKennie takes Roldan's spot & to get Adams on the field you put him in Lima's spot or change the system/take Mikey/WT out. But if Pulisic is wide, then both 8/10 spots open up. I would want to look at all possible options. In this order. 1) CP wide. MB/WT #6. McKennie & Adams as dual 8/10s. I think this gets out best players on the pitch and allows us to play close to the system 3G desires. 2) CP wide. MB/WT #6. McKennie = Roldan. Adams = Lima. Someone else (Lletget?) as the other 8/10. I like these options better because I think we have more playable non-Pulisic CM options than non-CP wide options. And Trapp/Bradley approximate each other closely enough that we play the same style with either. 3) CP central. MB/WT #6. One of McKennie/Adams as the other 8/10. With Adams or soneone else in Lima slot. At this point, if it is not working, you need to try something else. Change at #6. New setup. Or new 8/10s. Whatever the diagnosis is. Lastly, if we do need destroyer types, both Adams and McKennie can do that as well and CP moving inside & pushing them back is an option. Allows some more roster flexibility but is bad news for a non-distributing #6 type. GK = 3. D = 7. Bradley, Trapp (or a similar type player), Adams, McKennie, + 2 more 8/10s = 6. Pulisic + 3 more wide attackers + 2 CF types = 6. That is 22. Plus 1 wildcard. Another defender. Another AM/F. Or a pure #6. I think the #6 is the unlikeliest choice.
I think, in general, the media covering the USMNT on a permanent basis is too cozy with the players and USSF staff. For instance, I'd expect Holden to talk up Bradley doing anything well against whatever competition or for Tenorio to write long pieces on how Bradley likes his kids. But do I expect them to write something negative or say something negative, no. There are media people that will, but many will not. There is no conspiracy necessary. Just a friendly relationship between everyone. Plus, for guys like Tenorio, access is everything and I'm sure MB has been a source of much of what he has written about the USMNT since his Dad was fired. He is not going to burn that source. Twellman also made his bones by breaking news, he is going to protect his sources. Does anyone think GB would change his mind based on what the media is writing? Would GB risk his job and qualifying just to appease some people? I think Jill Ellis has struggled with this and it is much worse on the women's side. Fans identify with players much more and the way players are on permanent contracts give them a lot of power. Since Jill survived the latest player coup, she has seemed much freer with her player choices. I'm thinking GB and Earnie are pretty tuned in and if Adams is killing it, like he has so far, they will quickly get that into the NT.
Respectfully, Truecrew, I'm not sure you answered my question (which is probably because I asked it poorly). If the Crew were able to make a one-for-one switch of WT for any of TA, WM and MB, who would you choose for a game vs. Club America? Let's assume there's enough practice time to familiarize anyone. I say this not knowing much about the Crew but I'm assuming that GB uses WT in roughly the same way that we're discussing the USMNT does ("anchor").
I think in March they will be static. Pulisic will be given one position to learn and play if he can beat out the competition. Same with all the players that were not in this camp (almost the whole team). Then for the Gold Cup, other positions can be mastered. Then the whole thing can become dynamic with wingers switching, coming in, CMs filling wide, strikers dropping in or running behind, fullbacks overlapping or tucking in. In other words, if Pulisic plays Djorde's role and nothing else in March, that is just the first lesson. The window is short. It seemed like Djorde and Baird were almost stand ins and he could play either spot for the US. When thinking about he team in December, preparing for this camp, I don't think GB was thinking for Adams to play the 6. I'm sure he will be thinking about it between now and March. But if Adams is playing an 8/10 or whatever in March, again, he can move by the Summer and will understand everything more having played in a few places. It is interesting that Roldan and Djorde learned the system the best and guys like Arriola and Lletget were slower to grasp it and a guy like Acosta just not ready for it.
IMO, Arriola was overall the bestUSMNT player on the pitch and we got all of our chances off the counter attack. There was very little disorganizing the opponent by using possession and the ball. The most impressive thing about the W2-0 v CR was that the squad regrouped and competed in the 2nd half. Berhalter when he came in said that one key component that he was going to bring back to the team was competing and we saw that, kudos! The CR C Team was a good match for this US C Team and dominated the first half with speed, aggression, and physicality. In his half time interview GGG said the squad had to be tougher and they got the message and came out and matched CR in the 2nd half. One key difference in the 2nd half was that the quality of CR after 4 subs was below USL level. They brought on a player who was a part-time food delivery driver! My only disappointment in this camp was not seeing even more players. GGG could not find a few minutes for Canouse who was arguably the best American DM the 2nd half of MLS or Cannon who showed so much promise in his previous USMNT match? Is Delgado that far behind the other CMs? Could the young Philly CBs not be rewarded with a few minutes on the field? This is a January camp and previous coaches (even the much hated Klinsmann) understood that it was more important to give the youngsters some on-field reward than to win a meaningless Cupcake friendly.
One argument for the inclusion of Aaron Long going forward (other than the fact that he was pretty good in both games) is his speed.
There is so much talk because Twellman floated the idea of Adams in the wide hybrid role. If Berhalter does that in March then I bet there will be a lot more noise. We can put that aside for now and focus on what was in the vacuum. I was underwhelemed with Bradley and Trapp aginst weak competition. Both players bring things but their weaknesses will kill the team... they both struggled when put under pressure and were a defensive liability. The real question for this camp is why Canouse didnt get minutes? He was the best american dmid in MLS ths year and is a decent dstributor of the ball. I like a lot of things that Berhalter is looking to do, but havent seen enough for your over the top praise. These games dont matter and most of the players wont be on a roster until next January. Like many arguments on here, this type of praise is hard to debate because people like to assume any challenge means they believe the exact opposite. That last paragraph pretty much says we should wait and see. That is exactly what I think, but it sort of contradicts the previous one. The way he handles our top players (ie not bradley and trapp) in March will be his first real test for him.
I had the opportunity to attend the game in person with my wife and youngest son. We had a great time and enjoyed the game. We missed the last USMNT game at Avaya due to being in Europe for our 25th wedding anniversary. So, we were excited to get to see the USMNT, even though I'm less than excited in general about USSF and the near term direction of the USMNT (fan of Greg from his former playing days). While it was only one game, it did somewhat change my perception. I saw players who understood the system, engaged, and seemed to want to be on the field. Decisions were quicker, team was more fluid, and we got results even though the team didn't play well in the first half. While I don't think winning is that important normally this time of year, I think with a young squad and with the recent past it sets a foundation of the team. I will end by saying that we need to be careful in reading too much into the couple of games. Gregg still has the next hurdle of blending European and MLS players together. Also, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that CR made a lot of changes in the second half. It was great that we scored the two goals and created earlier changes (two shots of the post), but it's really hard to draw much with the amount of changes to the CR lineup. Also, while I agree with all of the positive comments on Lima, his strengths currently lie at the offense end at his position. While improving, he struggled last year against quality players and teams on the defensive side (Note: Part of this was due to being on a poor team). So, great start for him and I look forward to seeing him more on the USMNT. I expect him to address the defense side of his game and be part of the conversation for many years to come.
Coming back to Pragidealist's concept of having Adams replace Lima, well, how about this: we let Lima continue to play in that role as he did quite well. We also have Yedlin, Chandler (in a very similar role that he plays for club) and Cannon as high level candidates. We're completely set at this position! Now, where could we put Adams, a technically strong, coachable player who both sees and plays the field and can both shield the backline and win balls when necessary?........