Out with the old... Jan 2019 transfer thread

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by chjoak, Sep 5, 2018.

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  1. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    Exactly.

    Ya what Jitty said.

    While the fans look at cash accounting, the club and FFP go by accrual or whatever it’s called and follow GAAP.

    I’m not saying that this is definitively what is driving our xfer policy right now, but it is a possible explanation.

    As for the Ramsey situation, I just think that was a cost/benefit analysis done when Gazidis left.

    That’s true for our GAAP sheet and gel what I read “player amortization” is one of the line items that counts against the FFP valid revenues. So yes, both.

    What’s also crazy is that I was looking at the squad and nearly every player had their contracts renegotiated/extended in calendar 2018.
     
  2. chjoak

    chjoak Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ornstein confirms that we are after 2 loans before the window ends.
     
  3. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep, in addition to Suarez, the other one is alleged to be James Rodriguez. You know --- a brilliant offensive player when he's on, but a bit mercurial and not known for his defensive work rate. We could use a player like that, amarite?

    [h/t: Tim Stillman]
     
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  4. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    OK - so then as the club is now essentially private, Stan probably does not worry about massaging the P&L

    But the FFP issues could be significant given the big name onboardings and Ozil renewal yet with no big sales and no CL rev.
     
  5. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I'd actually love us to sign James in theory - just because he has some quality and if a loan, its a cheap way to find out.

    But when we already have Ozil and Ramsey is leaving on a free - it makes no sense.
     
  6. chjoak

    chjoak Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    rumor this morning is that we will go ahead and sell Ramsey to Juventus this window for 10m GBP if we finalize both of our target loans in time.
     
  7. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I do get the feeling the main issue Arsenal have is that we can't raise funds via sales because we ballsed up the Ramsey situation and have no one else to dump
     
  8. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I can see James happening just because we are run by a Spanish mafia now :D
     
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  9. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I think he would be OK in our super direct style

    But strange if you have a 350k p/w 10 in your squad
     
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  10. wanye_stirrear

    wanye_stirrear Member+

    Sep 19, 2002
    Maryland
    Oh okay, I see. I should have read the thread. I don't see how anyone would know whether we are affected by FFP given that it's a bit ambiguous. My understanding is that it is the consistent overuse of spending over many seasons. I don't really know what that means. And trying to understand the financials of a private company is a fool's game. Also, it takes into account money made from the sale of assets, and Arsenal owns a lot of real estate. I think it's all a guessing game, which is why I tend to stay out of it now that its private. My guess is that they just don't think January is the best time to be trading, which I agree with in theory, although I think it's a mistake this time around.
     
  11. wanye_stirrear

    wanye_stirrear Member+

    Sep 19, 2002
    Maryland
    The writing is on the wall. Ozil is gone - most likely in the summer. He is looking for his replacement.
     
  12. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    That's basically my point. It was a cost benefit analysis, not purely a financial decision. Assuming the same GAAP analysis would have applied to Ramsey's contract, unless they were completely incompetent, i. e., negotiating a contract they couldn't afford, they had the money to extend him, but decided not to.
     
  13. Romfordray

    Romfordray Member+

    Oct 24, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can't imagine we would get a sniff of James Rodriguez. Great player but damaged goods at this point. Perhaps that's all we can do for now. Suarez is happening. I'd imagine we would bring in a defensive cover.
     
  14. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    Yes. Probably useless for Stan, but important for FFP assuming Stan doesn’t want to pay fines and have roster/xfer limitations.
    They just became private and even private companies have to file with the companies house. This has enough info to do the FFP analysis. So being private doesn’t matter.

    You may be right, but given what’s happened the last few seasons we are definitely in an FFP danger zone. Which is silly bc I think we have 100+m in the bank and bumper commercial deals coming next season.
    Ya, the hit would have been manageable I think. For contract renegotiations near the end it’s basically just a 2X hit for wage increase. So Ramsey would have only cost a few extra million this season with his new deal.
     
  15. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    James is not exactly a press merchant either

    Makes no sense when we need defenders
     
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  16. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    Is it two times the wage increase or two times the new salary? Earlier you used Ozil's new salary of ~£350k/week, not the wage increase of ~£200k/week.

    If the analysis used of the hit is two times the wage increase, then the the hit for Ramsey would be about 75% of the hit from Ozil, approximately £140k per week vs £200k per week.

    If it is based on the new salary the hit from Ramsey's proposed contract would be about 70% of the hit from Ozil's contract. In addition if it's based on the new salary, not signing Ramsey would appear to allow Arsenal to pay Suarez's rumored transfer fee of £20m, while signing him to a four year contract at £100k per week, while still keeping Ramsey until the end of the season.
     
  17. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    BTW, re wage bills, Hudson Odoi, with three substitute appearances this season, reportedly turned down a contract offer of £85k per week from Chelsea.
     
  18. chjoak

    chjoak Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't think it is about the money. He has been trying to push a loan to Germany in the hopes of getting regular minutes like Nelson & Sancho.
     
  19. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know a little bit about James Rodriguez and therefore I'm completely meh about him.

    I know virtually nothing about Dennis Saurez so I'm having to give benefit of the doubt to him, or others who say he's decent and a good fit for us.

    But neither of these 2 signings is what I think we've needed most this season (seasoned ready-to-go defenders) and with Hector going down, that only seems to enhance that need.

    But, at this point 75% through the window, I feel pretty pessimistic that we will sign a vital defender.
     
  20. ArsenalJake

    ArsenalJake Member+

    Feb 11, 2013
    Charlotte
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  21. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Isn't that just protecting our interest though? Essentially, Barcelona wants to sell us the player, and simply loaning him to us for 6 months before they actually get paid. What we want is essentially a 6 month paid trial of the player before deciding if we want to spend money on him.
     
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  22. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Remember that mystical transfer chest that had loads of money in it? Lmao

    Embarrassing club at times
     
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  23. maskito

    maskito Member+

    Arsenal
    Jan 14, 2006
    Nashville
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  24. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
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  25. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    The 2x is just how it works out often for renegotions near the end of contract because you pay them once and then amortize the contract by their annual salary each year unless they were purchased.

    Iirc we gave ozil a 250k raise vs Ramsey wanting a 75-100k?

    Anyway, the calculation actually is that you add the remainder of the old amortization to the total value of the new contract and divide that by the number of years of the new contract. So for Ramsey when it was negotiated he had about 9/12ths of a year remaining I’d guess? What we don’t know is if there was any carry over from previous contracts. So this will only give the minimum amortization. So he was on 100kish with about 4m left to be paid. So you’d add about 4m to the new deal @175/wk over what I suspect was 3 years? Total about 30m. Divide by 3 and it’s 10m per year. The charge for this season would have been prorated I guess so 9/12ths again. So I think Ramsey would cost an extra 3.5m in amortization over previous terms if he was retained on top of his extra salary (3mish) and whatever the signing bonus and agents fees are? Likely in the millions I’d guess—not sure if that would be booked this year or next though or possibly amortized as well.

    The 10m hit also comes each season over the next two seasons. So not only do you have to pay him the extra 75k/wk or whatever, you have to take the ~10m charge each season.

    As I see the numbers, more and more I’m thinking we won’t do anything until someone moves. In summer we will dispose of quite a few registrations one way or another so that could open up things.
     

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